understanding the law as a grower...

W

Wyckoff

Member
I am a medical grower who has been growing for personal use for a few years. I have slowly expanded my setup, improved my techniques and my genetics to the point now where supply out paces demand. I am considering adding some patients so I can get even bigger and have a little side income. I've been looking into the latest version of the law (http://www.oregon.gov/oha/docs/HB3460-Draft-Rules-Version-4.pdf). As written a grower can only be compensated for his expenses and not labor etc.

Questions:

- How can dispensaries legally compensate growers while paying a fair price?
- What do professional growers do when tax season comes?
- If you can't be compensated beyond overhead then how can these people legally pay taxes (income means compensation > expenses)?
- Can a grower be compensated for new equipment?

Any help wrapping my head around this would be great. It seems like the new laws will legitimize dispensaries but growers are screwed.
 
negativeempire

negativeempire

Member
Contract first and foremost helps to protect the grower and patient from each other and both from law enforcement.
For more in depth answers to your questions and I can give you a PDF or word copy of a legally binding contract you can use for yourself please use my Email.
Dispensaries will open up a whole new can of worms and you have to protect yourself.

I have been at this a long time and had a lot of great patients some have been signed with me for several years. With the good there will always be some bad. Some will try to steal, rob ,or have police come out and try and seize plants I have heard all sorts of crazy stories.
Sometimes times you will find patents that care nothing about the medical aspect and to them it is just a drug period, and they only want to get high.
Which is fine I once used cannabis years ago recreational But if they want to treat is as such then cry compassion later it does not add up.

I have had some patents claim CBD or anything related to cannabis as a medicine is a joke they care nothing of look, flavor, smell, or medicinal aspects. They tend to have no provable medical condition they just have some invisible pain somewhere, they just want to get stoned. These types can be dangerous to you and your operation some patents are flat out addicted and will do what it takes to get there drug of choice and there is nothing medicinal about what they do.

Always screen your patients be careful who you sign up. Nothing wrong with recreational marijuana but here in Oregon we run a medical program so if you want to keep it legal keep it medical. These decisions can affect your life and those around you.
My whole family is made up of doctors, nurses, CNA's and mental health workers, it's not worth losing a state license or going to jail over.
Just saying once and awhile you will come across some real psychos out there.

Please feel free to Email me for more direct answers on proper compensation some things are better discussed off the open forum. See my profile for my Email and good luck stay safe.
 
rekoj0916

rekoj0916

Well-Known Member
negativeempire said:
Contract first and foremost helps to protect the grower and patient from each other and both from law enforcement.
For more in depth answers to your questions and I can give you a PDF or word copy of a legally binding contract you can use for yourself please use my Email.
Dispensaries will open up a whole new can of worms and you have to protect yourself.

I have been at this a long time and had a lot of great patients some have been signed with me for several years. With the good there will always be some bad. Some will try to steal, rob ,or have police come out and try and seize plants I have heard all sorts of crazy stories.
Sometimes times you will find patents that care nothing about the medical aspect and to them it is just a drug period, and they only want to get high.
Which is fine I once used cannabis years ago recreational But if they want to treat is as such then cry compassion later it does not add up.

I have had some patents claim CBD or anything related to cannabis as a medicine is a joke they care nothing of look, flavor, smell, or medicinal aspects. They tend to have no provable medical condition they just have some invisible pain somewhere, they just want to get stoned. These types can be dangerous to you and your operation some patents are flat out addicted and will do what it takes to get there drug of choice and there is nothing medicinal about what they do.

Always screen your patients be careful who you sign up. Nothing wrong with recreational marijuana but here in Oregon we run a medical program so if you want to keep it legal keep it medical. These decisions can affect your life and those around you.
My whole family is made up of doctors, nurses, CNA's and mental health workers, it's not worth losing a state license or going to jail over.
Just saying once and awhile you will come across some real psychos out there.

Please feel free to Email me for more direct answers on proper compensation some things are better discussed off the open forum. See my profile for my Email and good luck stay safe.
Click to expand...
Hey NegativeEmpire, had a few questions for you in regards to a few of the things addressed by the OP so I sent you a quick message, hope to hear from you soon,
Thanks!
 
Southerner

Southerner

Well-Known Member
A contract between you and a patient can work fine for clearly communicating an agreement for you both, but wouldn't mean shit when it comes down to it. The law states that when push comes to shove, the plants are the property of the patient. I have heard that new laws are in the works to better protect both growers and patients.

I guess I am just saying be careful with who you might develop a patient/grower relationship with.
 
Silly String

Silly String

Well-Known Member
Southerner said:
A contract between you and a patient can work fine for clearly communicating an agreement for you both, but wouldn't mean shit when it comes down to it. The law states that when push comes to shove, the plants are the property of the patient. I have heard that new laws are in the works to better protect both growers and patients.

I guess I am just saying be careful with who you might develop a patient/grower relationship with.
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Hey Southerner,
I think your words can apply to relationships in general. Very wise. :-P
Nice to see you back here!
 
negativeempire

negativeempire

Member
There is a lot more to it than that. People sign contracts everyday to relinquish rights, to give or sell property, in some states even to end their own life. If written contracts were that easy to overturn all this would be pointless.
This contract was partially written and looked over by attorney friend.
Any idea of what it takes for a judge to overturn a written singed contract beyond Breach, Fraud, or being singed under extreme duress? Point is be careful what you sign ignorance is no excuses for the law.

Always screen and investigate all patients before signing.
 
Southerner

Southerner

Well-Known Member
There would be no court in Oregon that would recognize such a contract is my opinion. To the state the marijuana/medicine has no finacial value whatsoever, so I couldn't see it being addressed in a civil court.
 
negativeempire

negativeempire

Member
The plants are considered property that is what the law states and it will be treated as such according to the law. Parts of this contract were taken from one currently used in Colorado.
Besides this is not about opinions it's about the law and the attorney stands behind his contract and would have no trouble defending what it written in the contract including wherein plants are by law property which can be transferable.

Regardless what any outcome may be we will continue to use contracts that way both parties know what to expect and what is expected going into an agreement.
It's a piece of mind for everyone involved.
 
hillbillyherbs

hillbillyherbs

Well-Known Member
Has anybody actually read HB3460?
Here's a link: http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/sourcefiles/oregon-hb3460.pdf
I know its boring but if you just read it it will help alot.
And stop this patient contract bs it only matters to people that fear the term "contact" because the courts will not back any of them yet.
Reading the original questions that started this thread I can't see how it related to anything related to patient grower contracts.
Negativeempire when you get any court in the land to back your contract then please let me know because I sure would like to have that assurance but currently I don't see it. Sad to say its still only as good as a hand shake.

HB3460 suspends the rule on dispensary quantity limits and also gives the grower the right to sell their extra meds (with patient permission ) and gives the right to the grower/patient to ask for reimbursement for all costs including labor and other costs.
Don't just read the rules committee results read the actual law.

When you have read HB3460 and the latest version of the rules then ask question or tell me I am talking out my ass please.

Carry on..........
 
negativeempire

negativeempire

Member
hillbillyherbs said:
Has anybody actually read HB3460?
Here's a link: http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/sourcefiles/oregon-hb3460.pdf
I know its boring but if you just read it it will help alot.
And stop this patient contract bs it only matters to people that fear the term "contact" because the courts will not back any of them yet.
Reading the original questions that started this thread I can't see how it related to anything related to patient grower contracts.
Negativeempire when you get any court in the land to back your contract then please let me know because I sure would like to have that assurance but currently I don't see it. Sad to say its still only as good as a hand shake.

HB3460 suspends the rule on dispensary quantity limits and also gives the grower the right to sell their extra meds (with patient permission ) and gives the right to the grower/patient to ask for reimbursement for all costs including labor and other costs.
Don't just read the rules committee results read the actual law.

When you have read HB3460 and the latest version of the rules then ask question or tell me I am talking out my ass please.

Carry on..........
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You want to argue join a debate forum.
Will it take care of and protect parties against everything that may arise? No probably not.
Is it better to have everything discussed before hand and written down and signed upon? Hell yes.
If you don't want to use one fine don't move along this does not concern you but many in this state and most all medical marijuana states use different types of contracts. If parties want to use one they can and will and it's beneficial in many ways.11hdssn.jpg

The OP ask for help regarding growing one way in which growers can be helped is through a contract, too hard to understand. Some from this thread have already been sent contracts as well as countless growers and patients all over the state and we will continue to send them to anyone who wants to use one for free.
 
C

CaretakerDad

Well-Known Member
negativeempire said:
You want to argue join a debate forum.
Will it take care of and protect parties against everything that may arise? No probably not.
Is it better to have everything discussed before hand and written down and signed upon? Hell yes.
If you don't want to use one fine don't move along this does not concern you but many in this state and most all medical marijuana states use different types of contracts. If parties want to use one they can and will and it's beneficial in many ways.View attachment 2933309

The OP ask for help regarding growing one way in which growers can be helped is through a contract, too hard to understand. Some from this thread have already been sent contracts as well as countless growers and patients all over the state and we will continue to send them to anyone who wants to use one for free.
Click to expand...

You should not chastise HillBillyHerbs because he is right about the contract not being legally binding or a protection of any kind from law enforcement as you stated in your original post in this thread. I was the president of a MMJ support group for some time and we recommended contracts between growers and patients because it helps to prevent misunderstandings. A contract to supply marijuana as stated is no more LEGALLY binding than a handshake or verbal agreement which is what it actually is. The only legal recourse is by the patient through the portions of the law that state the plants are the property of the patient and can be seized with the assistance of LEO if you can convince them to act. Again it is a great idea and can help but it is NOT LEGALLY BINDING.
 
negativeempire

negativeempire

Member
Please don't misconstrue or taint the entire point. It was just to help, some patents and growers find contracts helpful that is all.
It was all done to the benefit of anyone who wants one and many have and will benefit from them. To attack and inject negativity for someone trying to help others is unnecessary.

You know the other day I threw a few buck in a salvation army bell ringers bucket and I bet there are some who could cast a shadow on that act.
I will see if I can get my friend to perhaps put up a post up since he is a big part of the contract. I am not as well versed in the law as he and I imagine you are in the same boat.
Some will find sin and corruption even when there is none to be found, even in purity simply because it's what they want to see or perhaps a reflection of one's self. No good deed goes unpunished.
 
C

CaretakerDad

Well-Known Member
negativeempire said:
Please don't misconstrue or taint the entire point. It was just to help, some patents and growers find contracts helpful that is all.
It was all done to the benefit of anyone who wants one and many have and will benefit from them. To attack and inject negativity for someone trying to help others is unnecessary.

You know the other day I threw a few buck in a salvation army bell ringers bucket and I bet there are some who could cast a shadow on that act.
I will see if I can get my friend to perhaps put up a post up since he is a big part of the contract. I am not as well versed in the law as he and I imagine you are in the same boat.
Some will find sin and corruption even when there is none to be found, even in purity simply because it's what they want to see or perhaps a reflection of one's self. No good deed goes unpunished.
Click to expand...

Just don't lead people to believe that they are somehow LEGALLY covered by your contract because they are not. And don't assume because you and your friend are not well versed in the law that I am not. As I stated it is HELPFUL, BUT NOT LEGALLY BINDING. Not negativity, just reality.

PS I would say the same thing if you threw a slug into the kettle and called it a coin they could use. Possibly helpful but not legal.
 
Silly String

Silly String

Well-Known Member
CaretakerDad said:
PS I would say the same thing if you threw a slug into the kettle and called it a coin they could use. Possibly helpful but not legal.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to be an asshole (that happens naturally), but I thought you meant "slug", like the snail with no shell, type of slug. I was having the toughest time trying to get the analogy of "slug in a kettle and called it a coin". :-) And I'm not even high!

I do agree with you on the contract issue: Helpful, but not legally binding.
 
C

CaretakerDad

Well-Known Member
Silly String said:
I'm not trying to be an asshole (that happens naturally), but I thought you meant "slug", like the snail with no shell, type of slug. I was having the toughest time trying to get the analogy of "slug in a kettle and called it a coin". :-) And I'm not even high!

I do agree with you on the contract issue: Helpful, but not legally binding.
Click to expand...

I grew up in the Willamette Valley and the banana slugs I remember would fill a kettle, they were f'in huge.
 
Silly String

Silly String

Well-Known Member
I moved from the Russian River area, Sonoma County, CA, and the banana slugs there are even BIGGER than here (and they're pretty big here!). Something about those big redwood trees makes for even bigger slugs. Euuuw.

I'll have to toss a few slugs in the Salvation Army kettle next time I'm out and about. Santa would bring me coal, for sure!
 
jaegerbomb

jaegerbomb

Member
Even the slugs in Portland are huge! Or at least someone originally from the cold cold east coast is still shocked and horrified every time I see one as long as my ring finger....yuck. But hey, quick question since this is about the new law. A friend of mine called me frantic a few minutes ago telling me some dispensary employee told him that with the new rules dispensaries will only be able to obtain 30% of the medicine from growers. I don't see anything like that in the bill when I look at it...am I missing something? I told him, I think maybe he was talking to someone that was just baked and completely ill informed :) I guess I could be wrong, but I would assume that would mean dispensaries would be growing the other 70% themselves? Doesn't seem logical (not that logic play's a part in lawmaking) , and I don't see any such information anywhere.
 
Silly String

Silly String

Well-Known Member
I read the bill, and I don't recall that dispensaries would have to grow 70%. I have to admit, I wasn't really concentrating on percentages and who could grow how much. I'll ask my friend who does grow for dispensaries, he might have better info.

Maybe hillbillyherbs could chime in on this? Probably have the answer before I've finished downloading and rereading that bill....
 
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