Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas

say i grow a ceed, then top the ceed, and take that top as a clone to make 2 or 4 main colas... will that topped clone grow opposing nodes and be a candidate for a 2 or 4- cola plant, and also, can you keep doing this ? (if you can)

Uncle Ben said:

It's not going to hurt anything. Topping doesn't stress the plant nor will it induce mutation or hermies. You've been reading too much into some of the bullshit buzzwords around here like LST.

At the inside point of the petiole axis, that would be the inside point of attachment of the leaf petiole to the trunk or a branch, there resides a dormant bud. With the right inducement, usually hormonal, it will become active whether above (foliar) or below ground (roots). So, if you cut above the 1st node or the 8th, it shouldn't matter, you'll get output at the axis at the upper limit due to the affect of apical dominance and most likely get output below it. You just need to experiment, do some cutting, and go from there. I grow fruit trees and when one or more branches gets out of profile, too leggy, in comparison to the overall shape of the tree, I top it back.

If you just HAVE to have 4 main colas, then start from seed with opposing nodes and get after it. "My way" is not necessarily "the right way", it's just what kind of plant response I'm after, what I like, and is damn consistent and predictable. I can almost guarantee you 100% that if you cut above the first node you'll get 2 main colas. Done it dozens of times.

Good luck,
UB

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First let me say thanks for the more detailed response than I have been getting from you. So you know I`m not some noob that discovered growing when I found this site. Shit man I have been bending tops way before I ever came to this site...LST is it? I am however constantly evolving and tweaking methods I use. I have got good ideas from this thread, as well as others. I have 10 clones to work with so I do plan to experiment. Some cut low, some higher up.

I don`t HAVE to have 4 main colas. I realize the plants have to be from seed to have the uniform look from the opposing nodes. At the moment all I have are clones. Have been running same strain for about 3 years and it`s always been great smoke. Just trying to increase yield and get the most per plant possible. Also not all that excited about messing with seeds for a while. Still trying to recover from a bad seed episode. Trusted some seeds from a friend and they turned out to be hermie prone and infected my girls. Suffered some really heartbreaking losses.

Anyway man thanks for the knowledge- alien

HeartlandHank said:

Damn, sorry you all witnessed my pissy-fit there, the last few pages. My oldest pet got sick, almost lost him yesterday morning.... so I took it out on ol' Sir Ga... I mean Johnny.

So, I apologize.. for the pissyness... I try to keep it civil around here.

That aside, Johnny, you're totally full of shit dude... I can smell you from here.
I'll play nice and all... but, I'm not buying what you are selling dude.

Why not just go back to Sir Ganja? The troll we all love to hate...

C'mon... go back to Sir Ganja...

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Sounds like your pet pulled through? Hope all is well

Yeah, Heartland Hank, as an animal lover and rescuer of those abused or neglected, I hope all is well with you and your best friend. Good on ya!

ub i've realize that all your grows are standard in height and full of bud production,does that mean 8ft/tall plants produce smaller fruits?

Not really. You can get pounds of bud off of outdoor grown sativas. Mexicans do it every year.

Progress update: white bubba from post 4928 on 9-1-13: put under flowering mode on 9-12-13. Isn't she just the cutest lil thing?

Hi Uncle Ben,
Long time no chat, but I see you have PM's disabled now
I apologize if this is a little off the topic of 'topping for colas' but I would think you are a budding scientist with a thirst for experimentation and I was seeking perhaps confirmation through your experiences ^^

Ive been experimenting with apical dominance through training of scrog and also horizontal lst/supercropping.
As you are already well aware, auxins change and devote their efforts to the pinnacle of the tops which is why scrog is quite successful.

With your technique, you take the single dominant and make it into 2 or 4.

My query is if you have ever seen what happens when you create a 4 (or 2) cola plant, let veg a little and then remove one of the dominant tops..... do the other 3 tops become larger than previously with the 4?

I almost think of it more as a 'lollpop' technique where the lower branches are removed to divert energy to the apical dominant.

To be more forthcoming of my experimentation, I supercrop a 3ft plant over to 90 degree and horizontally stake.
All of the branches change direction and become apical through auxins.
What Im seeing is that when I remove 50% of the apical tops (1 from every node) the apical tops that remain actually become larger than if all the tops were left and the plant actually yields more...

Have you had any experience that coincides with this?

Cheers Jimmy.

Sorry I haven't read through the entire thread, but does topping actually produce more than bending? Also, would it be better to top where stem is thickest and trim the bottom one or maybe two nodes?! Thnx in advance.

Going to give this a blast tonight I think. My babies are only about 8in tall anf have a fair few sets stacked really close together so going to top above second set of proper jagged leaves and see what happens!

Jimmy Luffnan said:

My query is if you have ever seen what happens when you create a 4 (or 2) cola plant, let veg a little and then remove one of the dominant tops..... do the other 3 tops become larger than previously with the 4?

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Depends. Any time you top, anywhere, you will get foliage output from the node areas, remember?

I almost think of it more as a 'lollpop' technique where the lower branches are removed to divert energy to the apical dominant.

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Right, and my grandparents used to sucker their maters.

To be more forthcoming of my experimentation, I supercrop a 3ft plant over to 90 degree and horizontally stake.
All of the branches change direction and become apical through auxins.
What Im seeing is that when I remove 50% of the apical tops (1 from every node) the apical tops that remain actually become larger than if all the tops were left and the plant actually yields more...

Click to expand...

I train grapevines using VSP - Vertical Shoot Positioning. Read up on that.

When you bend a shoot over prostrate style all new output becomes dominant. Case in point, here's an avocado branch:



Cannabis has dormant buds only in the axils of the nodes. Stuff like avocados have dormant buds along a branch or its trunk.

Good luck with your experiments!

This came out pretty good.

Thanks Ben!
I knew I had seen this technique used on a commercial/common level before.... the ol' vineyard
I was most likely to plastered on wine and rolling around with an equally plastered young vixen to remember lol

I love having fun with experimentation, stops my hobby getting stale

Doesn't matter to me if I succeed or fail in my science, as long as I understand why

Cheers Jimmy.

Why not top (at node 6 for example), and then remove the bottom 4 branches instead of the top 4 (as in topping at node 2).
You would be left with the same number of main colas, plus 4 more sets of fan leaves.

So I cut my girl down to get three main branches. This resulted in the 3 main branches plus many smaller wanna be branches.
I am trying to decide weather or not to prune all the small starts and keep with original plan of three main stalks or to embrace the bushy growth. What do you think? Three main branches or bushy? Positives and negatives of both would help me think this through. Hashberry-dirt-2hps150's+ 4flourescent tubes.

Hello Tio Ben, I am an old spanish grower with about 25 years of growing experience, first of all sorry about my english. I have no time to read all this long post, and I want to ask you about some thoughts I have regarding your technique.
First one is, Can I top the plants at the 3 node..let them develop the 6 branches for some days until the branches from the first (lower) node achieve some size to use them as clones, then cut this 2 lower branches and let the plant with the remanent 4? Will this modification affect to the development of the 4 main colas?
the second question is about a practice I usually do when I top the plants for whatever reason..heigh problems etc... What I do when I top, is remove only the growing tips and let the big fans still in the trunk..my thought has always been that those big leaves doesnt have to be removed (except for shadow issues) and they may still work for the plant. Regarding your technique, lets say that instead of toping all the remaining plant over the second node...remove only..the apical growing tip..and all other little lateral growing tips until the second node, but leave the big leaves intact attached to the topped trunk.. my point is...well that big leaves are new leaves..not senescens..lets stay them there for a while, the plant invested a lot building them..the little growing tips are the auxin points and are removed.. so lets dont remove for a while that big leaves.. a benefit of this could be that the plant would need less time to recover and grow in general would be better. What are your thoughts on this?
Well I hope you understad what I write..., again sorry about my english. I have to tell you that after 25 years of growing and experimenting with all kind of things, at the end I have come with the same conclusions that you write in this forum...like more nitrogen in flowering times, snake oil products in all growshops, importance of regular seeds, and of course simplification is the key to success. And I have to say you big thanks not only for confirm my thoughts, and your lore about growing but also for introduce me to the Dyna Grow nutrients....
Muchas gracias Señor.
Nacho from spanish Pyrenees

nachooo said:

First one is, Can I top the plants at the 3 node..let them develop the 6 branches for some days until the branches from the first (lower) node achieve some size to use them as clones, then cut this 2 lower branches and let the plant with the remanent 4? Will this modification affect to the development of the 4 main colas?

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Hola. Not sure why you would want to do that. Try it and see if you like the results.

the second question is about a practice I usually do when I top the plants for whatever reason..heigh problems etc... What I do when I top, is remove only the growing tips and let the big fans still in the trunk..my thought has always been that those big leaves doesnt have to be removed (except for shadow issues) and they may still work for the plant. Regarding your technique, lets say that instead of toping all the remaining plant over the second node...remove only..the apical growing tip..and all other little lateral growing tips until the second node, but leave the big leaves intact attached to the topped trunk.. my point is...well that big leaves are new leaves..not senescens..lets stay them there for a while, the plant invested a lot building them..the little growing tips are the auxin points and are removed.. so lets dont remove for a while that big leaves.. a benefit of this could be that the plant would need less time to recover and grow in general would be better. What are your thoughts on this?

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Really have no opinion. Try it and report back with your results.

Buenas suerte and welcome to the forum.

Thanks tio Ben, in the first case I want to do it to obtain 2 clones instead the one I got if I use the original technique, and cause I always have more problems rooting this kind of clones, and lateral branches worked better for me.

In the second case it seems logical to me to maintain only the leaves...more energy for the plant I think

Thanks again

I bought a couple clones that are about 14-16 inches tall. They have not been topped. The nodes did not really come out in pairs but alternated .... in the OP pic the nodes are a symetrical pair shooting out. Also, there is quite a bit of stretch between nodes..about 2 .5 inches. If i cut at the second node I will be topping off about 6 inches of plant and several leaves. .... can I still top a clone this mature? shit.... hold for pic if thats not enough info..... I need to download the new RIU App for for 1.99. $! good job RIU finally, I canuse this ipad for pics BRB for pic

NM its only for androids

Impman said:

I bought a couple clones that are about 14-16 inches tall. They have not been topped. The nodes did not really come out in pairs but alternated .... in the OP pic the nodes are a symetrical pair shooting out. Also, there is quite a bit of stretch between nodes..about 2 .5 inches. If i cut at the second node I will be topping off about 6 inches of plant and several leaves. .... can I still top a clone this mature? shit.... hold for pic if thats not enough info..... I need to download the new RIU App for for 1.99. $! good job RIU finally, I canuse this ipad for pics BRB for pic

NM its only for androids

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This method is intended for plants from seed (as stated over and over again) so your results will vary with a clone. Probably won't get exactly 4 colas.