Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas

JonnyAppleSeed420 said:

Been there done that. Since my sickness and retiring I can not take on a full time job like you mention. Some people have physical issues and dirt, mixing, and dust can not be tolerated.

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I understand that Jonny. That's a fair point. The nice part is that once you have the soil made, that's it. You can use it for 5, 10, 15+ runs .... and you can just stick another clone right in there and scratch in a couple cups of amendments and some ewc. No till, no heavy lifting, nothing. Just plain ole water. You can even pick up some blu-mats or make your own drip system to further reduce the labor.

I have a friend that rented a cement mixer when he made his soil, and that eliminated a lot of the "work" involved. One day of soil amending, and then it's cruise control after that. You have a roster of billions doing the work for you in your organic soil.

If I lived close by I'd even offer to give you a hand mixing your batch up for you. I actually enjoy it (I'm kind of weird).

I love the idea of simply cutting the plant, leaving the roots, planting your seed or clone right next to the old stalk, and move on. That is cool. It gets better with each run. Harness the power of the microherd.

st0wandgrow said:

I understand that Jonny. That's a fair point. The nice part is that once you have the soil made, that's it. You can use it for 5, 10, 15+ runs ....

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15+, eh? Any reputable organic grower, and that includes me, will strongly advise against recycling your soil. Now, YOU need to read up on soil born pathogens, diseases, pest egg laying cycles, etc. If you can sanitize that soil by holding it at 170F for 15 minutes, then it's safe. I don't know anyone that can pull that off, even using solarization.

There's also the issue of the degradation of the organics, the humus breaking down, creating a poor soil structure. Kinda like coir, it's fine up to a point, then it flat ass disintegrates into mush.

I have a friend that rented a cement mixer when he made his soil, and that eliminated a lot of the "work" involved. One day of soil amending, and then it's cruise control after that. You have a roster of billions doing the work for you in your organic soil.

If I lived close by I'd even offer to give you a hand mixing your batch up for you. I actually enjoy it (I'm kind of weird).

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I dump my goodies on a concrete floor and using the bucket of my tractor mix it well, then store in large garbage cans. Next best thing is using a square nosed shovel.

UB

st0wandgrow said:

You have a very poor grasp of organics, and soil microbiology. Kelp meal, Neem seed meal, rock dusts, worm castings, etc are organic inputs which bacteria and fungi break down,

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Don't tell me what I have a grasp on or make pre-mature assumptions based on ignorance and personal arrogance and don't come in my thread with an attitude, or you'll get another Uncle Ben humbling experience. You don't know me. You're another baby opening his eyes for the first time and discovering the old world of organic gardening. Just for you, this is my soil archive that has been passed around forums for 15 years, probably since you were still messin' in your drawers.

Also, I have done experiments and gotten on the kelp bandwagon. I find no real world value in using kelp. I've tried Medina activators/kelp extracts (their plant is near me) and Maxicrop.

I use alot of brown sphagnum peat moss, a large bag of Schultz potting mix, and a bag of cheap potting soil (screened to get rid of the chunky stuff) to make up enough for 30 to 40 gallons of a final mix, which I mix on a cement floor using a shovel and store in large garbage cans. To this base which provides humates, an acidic hit, trace elements, etc. and a little silt to tighten up the mix and retain moisture, I add:

6 or so cups blood meal, 3 or so cups bonemeal, 4 cups dolomite lime, 1 large bag each of vermiculite and perlite (available at Casa dePOT) and alfalfa meal which contains a hormone called triacontanol (purported to increase vegetable production up to 60%). I buy alfalfa feed pellets from a farm and ranch supply store, put about 4 cups of the pellets in a bucket with a gallon of water and give it a good squirt of Ivory dish soap to cut the surface tension, let it stand for 30 minutes, and then dump the slurry into the mix on the floor. I sometimes add composted horse manure, maybe about 3 or 4 gallons of it. The final, slightly moist soil mix is turned well with a shovel and stored for a couple of weeks in garbage cans to "mellow".

Uncle Ben

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Back off with the tude, stick to solid horticultural facts, don't get pissed if I refute your positions...and we'll get along just fine.

UB

Uncle Ben said:

15+, eh? Any reputable organic grower, and that includes me, will strongly advise against recycling your soil. Now, YOU need to read up on soil born pathogens, diseases, pest egg laying cycles, etc. If you can sanitize that soil by holding it at 170F for 15 minutes, then it's safe. I don't know anyone that can pull that off, even using solarization.

There's also the issue of the degradation of the organics, the humus breaking down, creating a poor soil structure. Kinda like coir, it's fine up to a point, then it flat ass disintegrates into mush.



I dump my goodies on a concrete floor and using the bucket of my tractor mix it well, then store in large garbage cans. Next best thing is using a square nosed shovel.

UB

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Yes, 15. I can point you to a thread (another forum) where there is a journal of a soil being used for that long. Beautiful looking plants. He uses a clover cover-crop (Nitrogen fixing) in between rounds as he lets the beneficials and red wigglers break down his root ball. Then another clone gets plunked right in. Rinse, repeat.

Pathogens, disease, and pests are not an issue if you have IPM's built in to your soil. I use Neem seed meal, crabshell meal, and BTI granules and there isn't a pest in sight.

st0wandgrow said:

Yes, 15. I can point you to a thread (another forum) where there is a journal of a soil being used for that long. Beautiful looking plants. He uses a clover cover-crop (Nitrogen fixing) in between rounds as he lets the beneficials and red wigglers break down his root ball. Then another clone gets plunked right in. Rinse, repeat.

Pathogens, disease, and pests are not an issue if you have IPM's built in to your soil. I use Neem seed meal, crabshell meal, and BTI granules and there isn't a pest in sight.

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Before I planted a niche crop on my farm, I spent thousands of dollars on contract labor and seed and planted legumes and cover crops - Madrid yellow sweet clover, Elbon rye and Hairy vetch, 3 years in a row.

Pathogens, diseases and pests are always an issue, IPM's, IBM's or BM's. Sounds like you're pissing off your money after falling into the trendy organic cult movement. There's no such thing as "IPM's built into your soil." IPM or Integrated Pest Management is a means to an end that includes both organic and synthetic (conventional) inputs to farming or gardening.

If you think some crabshell meal or other stuff is gonna ward off springtails, fungus gnats, nematode, pythium, phytophora and such......

He uses a clover cover-crop (Nitrogen fixing) in between rounds as he lets the beneficials and red wigglers break down his root ball. Then another clone gets plunked right in. Rinse, repeat.

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Yeah, rinse, repeat, water and there you have it folks, a pot full of dead wigglers because some gungho "organic" pinhead just drowned his worms. And to plant a cover crop in a pot is absurd. Cover crops and worms belong outdoors in a vegetable garden or farmland.

Yeah, give me a link, I'm curious.

UB

Hey UB...
Started reading this thread a couple weeks ago. Thought I'd try it, check out the pics. Seedling is White Bubba bagseed that was sown on 7-25-13. I germinate indoors in a dedicated cabinet under 4 100 watt CFL
5000k. Popped on 7-28-13. Germinate in soil in tiny lil pots, and then transplant to 3" after 8-9 days old. Transplant to 6" pot around 21 days. Here is the progression to today: dates in pic name
#1 WB on 8-21-13
#8 WB on 9-1-13

As you said one can see it kicking in (branching) within 3 days. Today I decided to space it out a tad, kinda train it to a candelabra effect. Anyway thought it was cool and gives me something to do in retirement lol

Forgot: cut between 2nd and 3rd node to go for 4 colas. Note on the very bottom node, one branch is lagging far back

Looking good! It should grow to a candelabra profile on its own, FWIW.

Good luck,
UB

what kind of plant is it? and what nutes are you using?

Uncle Ben said:

Before I planted a niche crop on my farm, I spent thousands of dollars on contract labor and seed and planted legumes and cover crops - Madrid yellow sweet clover, Elbon rye and Hairy vetch, 3 years in a row.

Pathogens, diseases and pests are always an issue, IPM's, IBM's or BM's. Sounds like you're pissing off your money after falling into the trendy organic cult movement. There's no such thing as "IPM's built into your soil." IPM or Integrated Pest Management is a means to an end that includes both organic and synthetic (conventional) inputs to farming or gardening.

If you think some crabshell meal or other stuff is gonna ward off springtails, fungus gnats, nematode, pythium, phytophora and such......



Yeah, rinse, repeat, water and there you have it folks, a pot full of dead wigglers because some gungho "organic" pinhead just drowned his worms. And to plant a cover crop in a pot is absurd. Cover crops and worms belong outdoors in a vegetable garden or farmland.

Yeah, give me a link, I'm curious.

UB

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Again, you don't know what you're talking about. Crabshell meal, neem seed cake/meal, and BTI granules are all effective, organic IPM's. Chitin is the important component of crabshell meal. It triggers the plants defense response, and helps ward off pests and disease. $10 for a box that will last you forever. BTI (Bacillis thuringensis) is a beneficial bacteria that gnat larvae eat.... and then die. It can be found at any big box retailer like Home Depot. $7. Neem seed meal, in addition to being a great source of N, is also one of the best IPM's you can find due to the fact that it acts as an anti-feedant and growth hormone regulator for pests. $10 for a 5lb bag.

Here's where you want to order the neem from: http://www.neemresource.com/OnlineOrder.html

Here's a little info on chitin: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2866471/

Some info on BTI granules: http://www.ghorganics.com/BTI_For_Fungus_Gnats.htm

Here's a link to a recycled organic living soil picture thread. All of these plants were grown with recycled soil, using cover crops and most with a layer of mulch (indoor, in containers). Most don't add worms to their pots. A few babies and cocoons get in there when adding home made worm castings and they do just fine (because we aren't dumping chemicals on them)



I read your thread years ago. I've done the synthetic fertilizers (miracle grow, JR Peters, fox farms, etc), I've done the hydro, and hands down the best results come from amended organic soil that is recycled. It also happens to be the cheapest way. You are stuck in the mud, and couldn't handle the shot to your ego to concede that there just might be a better way of doing things than "Uncle Bens" way (like you invented anything in this thread). Not saying that you can't grow nice plants dumping synthetic fertilizers on your girls, you just aren't realizing the full potential of your genetics.

st0wandgrow said:

.....Here's a link to a recycled organic living soil picture thread. All of these plants were grown with recycled soil, using cover crops and most with a layer of mulch (indoor, in containers). Most don't add worms to their pots. A few babies and cocoons get in there when adding home made worm castings and they do just fine (because we aren't dumping chemicals on them)

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Monkey see monkey do.

May the chitin gods infest your armpits with a thousand crabs.

UB

Uncle Ben said:

Monkey see monkey do.

May the chitin gods infest your armpits with a thousand crabs.

UB

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I'm not here to get my ego stroked like you.

I'm only interested in growing the best marijuana possible. Organically amended soil produces better results than your JR Peters.

End of story.

Just want to thank Uncle Ben for the information. Even though I have not quite perfected the technique yet I am getting there. Getting 2 without issue, just not 4 yet but practice makes perfect they always say and boy am I looking forward to the "PRACTICE"!!!

All you did was post internet links you D-bag monkey on skates.... what education do you speak from? UB can site a U... not internet links to something some 12 year old in North Korea probably posted to fuck with you.

Impman said:

All you did was post internet links you D-bag monkey on skates.... what education do you speak from? UB can site a U... not internet links to something some 12 year old in North Korea probably posted to fuck with you.

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I'm posting links because a) UB asked for them, and b) he is apparently clueless as to some pretty basic things.

If you want to jump in here then feel free to contribute something other than grade school insults. Weak sauce

st0wandgrow said:

I'm posting links because a) UB asked for them, and b) he is apparently clueless as to some pretty basic things.

If you want to jump in here then feel free to contribute something other than grade school insults. Weak sauce

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You're clueless when it comes to being on topic. OK, I played along with your newbie know it all..... bull-in-a-china store approach. I conveyed my vast experience with organics which includes farm ag based, not some silly cult like affinity by some newb discovering something for the first time in his life. Yes, the world is round.

Also, I never asked for links. I asked for a link to the idiot that claims he grows cover crops and raises wigglers in pots, which is pretty damn stupid and impractical if you ask me and quite creepy. Who wants to drown worms? They're animals. They belong in the ground not in some stoner's potting soil. Sheesh, only in pot forums! AGAIN, let's see a link to this guy's journal. If I have to register to view, don't bother.

I doubt if anyone is really interested in your organic and natural revelations. I'm not. Been there, done that.

Run along and play with that little red wiggler of yours, and while you're slapping it around a bit.....might as well start your own thread in the organics forum. The fate of the western world depends on it.

UB

Pats Against NFL said:

Just want to thank Uncle Ben for the information. Even though I have not quite perfected the technique yet I am getting there. Getting 2 without issue, just not 4 yet but practice makes perfect they always say and boy am I looking forward to the "PRACTICE"!!!

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You're welcome. Sometimes the top 2 will become dominant but usually if you top above the 2nd true node all 4 will be dominant. Reference the first page pix.

Here's an exception and a photo I've never posted before. It is a O. Haze topped to get 4 main colas. Notice the heavy crotch and girth on the top 2 colas? They are very dominant compared to the 2 main colas below them. Notice the effect of topping the dominant ones again? From one came 2....from that came another 2, etc.



Haze male destroyed:

st0wandgrow said:

I'm not here to get my ego stroked like you.

I'm only interested in growing the best marijuana possible. Organically amended soil produces better results than your JR Peters.

End of story.

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Bullshit. You wouldn't be able to tell d diff in the smoke if I did organic and jacks grown clones.

Kite High said:

Bullshit. You wouldn't be able to tell d diff in the smoke if I did organic and jacks grown clones.

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Yep. A chemical is a chemical is a chemical......

Hey dude, sup? Hope that wildfire smoke AND dangerous conditions aren't blowing your way!

Uncle Ben said:

You're clueless when it comes to being on topic. OK, I played along with your newbie know it all..... bull-in-a-china store approach. I conveyed my vast experience with organics which includes farm ag based, not some silly cult like affinity by some newb discovering something for the first time in his life. Yes, the world is round.

Also, I never asked for links. I asked for a link to the idiot that claims he grows cover crops and raises wigglers in pots, which is pretty damn stupid and impractical if you ask me and quite creepy. Who wants to drown worms? They're animals. They belong in the ground not in some stoner's potting soil. Sheesh, only in pot forums! AGAIN, let's see a link to this guy's journal. If I have to register to view, don't bother.

I doubt if anyone is really interested in your organic and natural revelations. I'm not. Been there, done that.

Run along and play with that little red wiggler of yours, and while you're slapping it around a bit.....might as well start your own thread in the organics forum. The fate of the western world depends on it.

UB

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My apologies. I thought I posted this the first time. Again, this is all recycled organic soil. The member "Gascanastan" has pics from a soil that he has been re-using for 8 runs now. He does indeed use cover crops in his pots, along with a layer of mulch. I already explained to you though that the worms are not included in the containers. Those are in separate containers/bins.

http://forum.seeddepot.nl/showthread.php?5303-Organic-Eye-Candy-Post-your-ROLS-pics-here