Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas

Thanks again Uncle Ben, tried it on some outdoor plants and their lovin it!!

I'd say they are Brabb! Looking good guy.

Good luck fellers. All you're doing it redistributing the plant's hormones. Simple.

what happend to all the pics in the first post?

whats the difference between cutting it in the beggining, when its just creating the third leaf set and waiting untill you have 6-7 nodes and then cutting at the same spot?

I've been following this thread with much interest. Just finishing a grow and have learned a lot and am looking forward to next one. I'd appreciate some advice regarding sexing, going back to veg and then topping per Tio B's 4 cola technique. Space is constrained for me: I built a cabinet thats 2 X 4 X 6 feet planned around 2 4ft T5 4 tube fixtures. I have some seeds that are not feminized so I'd like to germ, veg up to 4 nodes, then do 12/12 long enough to sex and then, gasp, get rid of the males and go bak to 12/12 and hopefully have 6 nodes such that I can top just above real node 2. Part 2 of my advice request would be how many 4 cola plants in 3 gallon grow bags is realistic for my 2' X 4' floor plan? I way over did it in the grow I'm just finishing. I attempted 10 un topped females. Jungle is all I can say. Barney's Farm Blue Cheese, Indica and nice but I was greedy or crazy. Nice buds though. Anyway, thanks for all the good knowledge generously shared here.

SICC";3080720]what happend to all the pics in the first post?[/QUOTE] Thanks for pointing that out. I wrote a mod about it. Those photos tell the story. [quote="hemphopper said:

I've been following this thread with much interest. Just finishing a grow and have learned a lot and am looking forward to next one. I'd appreciate some advice regarding sexing, going back to veg and then topping per Tio B's 4 cola technique. Space is constrained for me: I built a cabinet thats 2 X 4 X 6 feet planned around 2 4ft T5 4 tube fixtures. I have some seeds that are not feminized so I'd like to germ, veg up to 4 nodes, then do 12/12 long enough to sex and then, gasp, get rid of the males and go bak to 12/12 and hopefully have 6 nodes such that I can top just above real node 2. Part 2 of my advice request would be how many 4 cola plants in 3 gallon grow bags is realistic for my 2' X 4' floor plan? I way over did it in the grow I'm just finishing. I attempted 10 un topped females. Jungle is all I can say. Barney's Farm Blue Cheese, Indica and nice but I was greedy or crazy. Nice buds though. Anyway, thanks for all the good knowledge generously shared here.

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Some thoughts:

1. Cabinets suck. I know, it's what everyone does. A garden is dynamic - the footprint is always in a state of change. I use mobile side reflecting panels. I understand "jungles" perfectly well, check week four out: https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html

2. Sex by watching for pre-flowers, get rid of the males, go back to a 20/4, up the N and when you're sure those nodes are opposing, top to get your 4 main colas. Watch for hermies. Seeds are a PITA but I never felt there was a difference regarding potency of sensi and seeded.

Good luck,
UB

Thanks and your root pruning thread is really eye opening. I agree that cabs suck but until I can move to a better environment I have to live with it. I will probably just do 2 plants in that cab next time and go for the healthiest vegetative state possible before budding them all out. Then go for the the beautiful 4 colas supported by good greenery.

Hey i have a question is it too late to top my plant and make 2 cola's for more bud. Im on day 8 of flowering and its 13 inches tall with a diameter of 26 inches. Another question is it possible for a plant to grow 2 cola's or more without topping it?

Hello the group,

I've been bumbling along for several years now with an old copy of Rosenthal's Closet Cultivator and was getting pretty impressed with myself until I stumbled upon these forums (I've been lurking and reading about a week now). Fuck, oh dear man, some of you guys got this growing thing tweaked to a level I didn't even know existed. I've got so many questions for some of you I hardly know where to start.

I've been growing in potting soil from seed but the highest yield I've been able to achieve is around 11 grams/plant (cured) in about a 110 day cycle. While I'm by no means a world class conesiuer of herb I do think the quality of what I've managed to produce is at least as good as most other things I've been coming across in my area. About a year ago I got a hold of some Allegria seeds while passing thru the Netherlands. I'm about 25 days out from harvesting my third grow of that strain. On the first grow I pollinated the lower buds so I'd have some seed stock for future grows.

I guess the first thing I would really like to know from Uncle Ben is whether that plant in the pictures he started this thread with is from seed or a clone?

Jack in the Bud said:

I guess the first thing I would really like to know from Uncle Ben is whether that plant in the pictures he started this thread with is from seed or a clone?

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Seed.

Welcome to the thread!

This is a most educational thread, as has been said before. I'd like to ask UB if you could put up a link to making your own potting mix. Maybe you've done that already but I haven't found it yet.

Thanks,
H

Uncle Ben said:

Seed.

Welcome to the thread!

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Uncle Ben,

I stayed up late last night trying to read everything you've posted until my eye's burned. While I didn't get all that done I have read enough to be way impressed with your no bs practical approach to things. With rare exception if I haven't been able to find it at WallMart or Home Depot it's not part of my program.

(O.K. enough ass kiss'n.) I'll be ready to start the next crop in about 30 days and would sure like to get plant structures like the ones pictured in the post you started this thread with. I'll be following the pruning technique you started this thread with but my problem has been that my plants etoliate far to quickly.

Anything you'd be willing to tell me about your soil mix, lighting cycle and fertilizing program would be greatly appreciated.

I believe I've got my grow space set up to the point where I can duplicate your results if you'll just coach me a bit.

My space is 5 x 7. I got the walls covered with foil and have a 400W Sylvania Metal Arc a 100W GE lucalox and 4 150W (equivalent) cfl's for lighting. Got CO2 set up on a timer to run for 15 minutes every 2 hrs. I've got the lighting, fans and venting all set up on a series of timers and thermostats that I've managed to cobble together from parts found at Home Depot. In fact if I make sure every things watered I can usually go a way for 4 to 5 days with no problem.

I've been using plastic pots exactly like the ones in your pictures. I have how ever drilled 20 to 30 extra 1/4" holes in the bottoms and have them set up on 1/2" tall pvc pipe rings I've cut to insure good drainage and air circulation under them. They all sit on a low plastic sheet covered table I've built with just enough slope in it to drain to a gutter and catch basin.

I've pretty much just been using straight Miracle Grow potting soil for a medium. Allthough this last run I added some Roots Organic mycorrhizael root growth enhancer. When I've harvested and depotted in the past I haven't had the kinds of intense root structures like I've seen in a lot of pictures.

For ferts I've just been using regular MG during the vegatative stage and then switching to their Bloom Booster formula during flowering. I've been supplementing that with some Super Thrive and molasses. All though from one of your past posts I've read I seem to recall that you might think the whole molasses thing might be voodoo. While I can't say for sure it's helped I'm pretty sure it hasn't hurt anything.

I've got all my plants numbered and keep a chart of who gets what when. It's been a while since I've over ferted and if any thing lately I've usually gotten a couple of plants each run that most likely have a nutrient deficency. But nothing too major.

After learning a few hard lessons a few years back about bringing other plants indoors that have been out side and having them act as a vector for spider mite and aphid infections I haven't had any bug, mold or fungus problems (that I'm aware of) in quite some time. Well that is with the exception of fungus nats (man I certainly know how to raise a crop of those critters). But since they don't seem to be causing any major plant damage I've foregone the pesticides and just tried to sticky trap the hell out of them to keep their numbers beat back. I think they're way more annoying to me than the plants.

With the aid of a little Aluminum Sulfate now and then I manage to keep my soil ph in the 6 to 7 range. Got one of those combo light, moisture, ph meters I payed around $20 for online a couple years a go. [While in Home Depot yesterday I saw the exact same thing for $7.58.]

Well it looks like that brownie I had with my morning coffee has caused me to prattle on at a greater length than I intended to. So I guess I'll just shut up now and hope you'll consider me worthy of some coaching.

Guys, gotta make this quick. Wife's in the hospital and I'm up to my ass in alligators.

hemphopper said:

This is a most educational thread, as has been said before. I'd like to ask UB if you could put up a link to making your own potting mix. Maybe you've done that already but I haven't found it yet.

Thanks,
H

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Here ya go. It's the basics regarding the provision of essential elements, water retention, aeration, etc. you're concerned with. This is just what I do.

I use alot of brown sphagnum peat moss, a large bag of Schultz potting mix, and a bag of cheap potting soil (screened to get rid of the chunky stuff) to make up enough for 30 to 40 gallons of a final mix, which I mix on a cement floor using a shovel and store in large garbage cans. To this base which provides humates, an acidic hit, trace elements, etc. and a little silt to tighten up the mix and retain moisture, I add:

6 or so cups blood meal, 3 or so cups bonemeal, 4 cups dolomite lime, 1 large bag each of vermiculite and perlite (available at Casa dePOT) and alfalfa meal which contains a hormone called triacontanol (purported to increase vegetable production up to 60%). I buy alfalfa feed pellets from a farm and ranch supply store, put about 4 cups of the pellets in a bucket with a gallon of water and give it a good squirt of Ivory dish soap to cut the surface tension, let it stand for 30 minutes, and then dump the slurry into the mix on the floor. I sometimes add composted horse manure, maybe about 3 or 4 gallons of it. The final, slightly moist soil mix is turned well with a shovel and stored for a couple of weeks in garbage cans to "mellow".

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Jack in the Bud said:

I'll be following the pruning technique you started this thread with but my problem has been that my plants etoliate far to quickly.

Anything you'd be willing to tell me about your soil mix, lighting cycle and fertilizing program would be greatly appreciated.

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It's all in the balance:

1. Measure your light in f.c. Aim for an overall 6,000 f.c. a couple of inches down into the canopy or at least at the tops.

2. Proper nutrition which means you always know the ratio of NPK. I grow for the most amount of foliage during veg and attempt to maintain that foliage in a healthy, green, productive state until harvest. No flushing for me, and no excessive "bloom" foods. If the leaves start to prematurely drop or yellow from the bottom up, don't just sit there mesmerized by forum paradigms, give them what they REQUIRE. Hit 'em with a 30-10-10 until they stop dropping their leaves. Ever notice that the guys that parrot "it's natural for cannabis to lose their leaves" are the ones who can't grow a plant well up to harvest? Don't listen to them, they are usually butchering/abusing their plants' health with bloom foods. Keep those leaves green and abundant and do not "leaf", even shaded leaves.

3. Learn to read your plants (keep them green and heavy in the foliage.)

I believe I've got my grow space set up to the point where I can duplicate your results if you'll just coach me a bit.

My space is 5 x 7. I got the walls covered with foil and have a 400W Sylvania Metal Arc a 100W GE lucalox and 4 150W (equivalent) cfl's for lighting. Got CO2 set up on a timer to run for 15 minutes every 2 hrs. I've got the lighting, fans and venting all set up on a series of timers and thermostats that I've managed to cobble together from parts found at Home Depot. In fact if I make sure every things watered I can usually go a way for 4 to 5 days with no problem.

I've been using plastic pots exactly like the ones in your pictures. I have how ever drilled 20 to 30 extra 1/4" holes in the bottoms and have them set up on 1/2" tall pvc pipe rings I've cut to insure good drainage and air circulation under them. They all sit on a low plastic sheet covered table I've built with just enough slope in it to drain to a gutter and catch basin.

I've pretty much just been using straight Miracle Grow potting soil for a medium. Allthough this last run I added some Roots Organic mycorrhizael root growth enhancer. When I've harvested and depotted in the past I haven't had the kinds of intense root structures like I've seen in a lot of pictures.

For ferts I've just been using regular MG during the vegatative stage and then switching to their Bloom Booster formula during flowering. I've been supplementing that with some Super Thrive and molasses. All though from one of your past posts I've read I seem to recall that you might think the whole molasses thing might be voodoo. While I can't say for sure it's helped I'm pretty sure it hasn't hurt anything.

I've got all my plants numbered and keep a chart of who gets what when. It's been a while since I've over ferted and if any thing lately I've usually gotten a couple of plants each run that most likely have a nutrient deficency. But nothing too major.

After learning a few hard lessons a few years back about bringing other plants indoors that have been out side and having them act as a vector for spider mite and aphid infections I haven't had any bug, mold or fungus problems (that I'm aware of) in quite some time. Well that is with the exception of fungus nats (man I certainly know how to raise a crop of those critters). But since they don't seem to be causing any major plant damage I've foregone the pesticides and just tried to sticky trap the hell out of them to keep their numbers beat back. I think they're way more annoying to me than the plants.

With the aid of a little Aluminum Sulfate now and then I manage to keep my soil ph in the 6 to 7 range. Got one of those combo light, moisture, ph meters I payed around $20 for online a couple years a go. [While in Home Depot yesterday I saw the exact same thing for $7.58.]



Well it looks like that brownie I had with my morning coffee has caused me to prattle on at a greater length than I intended to. So I guess I'll just shut up now and hope you'll consider me worthy of some coaching.

Click to expand...

Don't mind coaching you but you can make it easier on yourself if you get Mel Franks MJ Insiders Growers Guide. I have the 1982 edition, it's been updated. Why do I like him? He knows botany and is truly a master gardener. Jorge Cervantes' Bible is excellent too, for the most part. There is some erroneous info, but the chapter on lighting is worth the price of the book alone. Regular books on indoor growing help.

You're on the right track although overdoing it a bit like with the extra drainage holes. If you have a robust root system and lot's of foliage, root rot will NEVER be an issue. If you're fighting root spinout and potbound conditions, then you're doing good.

Aluminum sulfate is a great acidifier, but you shouldn't need it if you have enough peat moss, plus cannabis is pretty pH tolerant regarding nutrient availability and that is the issue. Most mixes land around 6.5 anyway. I also like slow release encapsulated foods (Osmocote and/or organics). Plants like everything in moderation but for sustained periods - salts, water, air, light, etc. IMO, CO2 is a waste of time. Change of room air is cheaper and does fine. You can have a toxic condition with CO2 so you have to monitor it.

Good luck,
UB

Thanks Uncle Ben,

I'll keep you and your wife in my thoughts. I know my wife is my best friend after so many years. Not easy. Be well.
H

Casa de POT !!

Tio Benito - you're too much!

I accidentally discovered a nice way to get 3 tops. Instead of topping it,

cut half of the main shoot. It damages the top and forces the 2 bottom ones to grow. After 1 week the damaged top regenerates and comes in line with the other tops.

If you combine this with the 4 top described here, you will wind up with 6 colas!

I have done this many times and it works. The leaves from the main shoot usually wind up being mangled looking half leaves due to the half cut. The point here is cut enough of the top to stop growth temporarily to allow the boottom shoots to grow.

Uncle Ben,

Sorry to hear about the wife. I hope it's nothing too serious and that everything turns out O.K. Please don't ever feel you have to immediately respond to anything I ask. Please do so only at your liesure. I'm way past the point of panicking about things and realize there's a lot more important things in life than just growing a good crop of weed.

Thanks for explaining about your soil mix. I just happen to have a 3.8 cubic foot bale of Sunshine Mix #2 (80% spagnum peat moss) and a 2cf bag of MG potting mix already in my pile. And I'm pretty sure I've seen all the other ingredients you mentioned at my local Low Power Depot. I've got several feed stores in the area so getting my hands on some alfalfa pellets should be no problem. I'll probably grab a couple 30 to 40 gallon plastic trash cans while I'm out shopping also. Should be able to get this soil mix put together in the next week so it has a couple of weeks to "mother up and mellow" before the start of the next grow.

I'll also be getting a copy of Mel Frank's book coming my way. All though I never have any thing to do with growing sent directly to me I've got a discret non-growing friend who'll take care of ordering and recieving it for me if I give them the cash.

From reading a lot of your other posts I've gotten an inkling of some other things I could be doing differently. Still got lots of questions but they can wait till your a little less up to your ass in gators.

Once again, I sure hope everything turns out for the best with your wife.

Jack in the Bud said:

Uncle Ben,

Sorry to hear about the wife. I hope it's nothing too serious and that everything turns out O.K.

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Found her on the floor with a totally fractured femur such that the lower bone segment was driven above the upper by 2" as reflected by XRays. She was whisked off via ambulance to ER. Surgery involved pin and screws placements. It's the long incision and muscle soreness that's gonna be bitch for a while, bone will heal together fine. Looks like I'm gonna wear the hat of Nurse's Aid, oh well, that's what marital committments are all about. Thanks for asking.

Please don't ever feel you have to immediately respond to anything I ask. Please do so only at your liesure. I'm way past the point of panicking about things and realize there's a lot more important things in life than just growing a good crop of weed.

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Appreciate the kind thoughts and a voice of reason.

Thanks for explaining about your soil mix. I just happen to have a 3.8 cubic foot bale of Sunshine Mix #2 (80% spagnum peat moss) and a 2cf bag of MG potting mix already in my pile. And I'm pretty sure I've seen all the other ingredients you mentioned at my local Low Power Depot. I've got several feed stores in the area so getting my hands on some alfalfa pellets should be no problem. I'll probably grab a couple 30 to 40 gallon plastic trash cans while I'm out shopping also. Should be able to get this soil mix put together in the next week so it has a couple of weeks to "mother up and mellow" before the start of the next grow.

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That will work. Dump it all on a concrete floor, make sure it's moist, mix well with a shovel and store in large cans.

I'll also be getting a copy of Mel Frank's book coming my way. All though I never have any thing to do with growing sent directly to me I've got a discret non-growing friend who'll take care of ordering and recieving it for me if I give them the cash.

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Here's my pick for discrete ordering, service and quality of info:

http://www.redeyepress.com/htm/book3.htm

Check on http://www.redeyepress.com/htm/halfprice.htm , it's a bargain.

From reading a lot of your other posts I've gotten an inkling of some other things I could be doing differently. Still got lots of questions but they can wait till your a little less up to your ass in gators.

Once again, I sure hope everything turns out for the best with your wife.

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Thanks, and happy gardening!

My condolences.