Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas

Howdy!

Jerry Garcia said:

Hello again UB! I've got a situation and I'd like your input.

I'm currently vegging two blue cheese and one pure power that are about one month from seed. My plan was to top them to get 4 colas, clone the tops, and be happy as a clam. My plants have 9+ nodes and are between 6 and 6.5 inches tall. They look healthy and happy, with lots of branching.

My problem is that topping now above the second true node will cost me 7 tightly-spaced nodes above it (except for the bit I decide to use as a clone). I like the way it is developing, and don't want to muck it up.

Click to expand...

Then don't. I would never top such a plant. I top plants that I speculate will be leggie, mainly for height control.

Regarding rooting your cutting, you could always take the top leaving the bottom 2 node sites to produce 4 main colas, pinch off the petioles at the lower 2 or 3 nodes of the cutting, treat it with rooting gel and sink it into your rooting medium up to the leaf petioles that are left on the cutting. The lower 3 nodes will be your rooting sites, the 4 node sites left with their leafsets intact will produce food for the production of roots. For some strange reason folks seem to think that removing the leaves on a cutting is a good thing.

What is your opinion on topping higher up the plant...say 3 nodes from the top, leaving 6 below? I know it won't give me 4 "colas" like topping above the second true node will...

Click to expand...

Depends on whether you want 4 main colas or a bunch. Again, it's all about apical dominance regarding the action of the auxins which collect in the upper most terminal leaders.

My other thought is to do a little training with them instead. Just tie the top down a bit and let the other branches catch up.

Any input you can give would be most appreciated!

--Jerry

Click to expand...

I don't know what your headspace limitations are, but with such tightly spaced internodes I don't think height is gonna be an issue if you flower around say......12" tall. You need to experiment so you'll have a better feel of plant responses come your next garden.

Good luck,
UB

Uncle Ben said:

Then don't. I would never top such a plant. I top plants that I speculate will be leggie, mainly for height control.

Click to expand...

This plant will certainly not have that issue. My vertical space is around 4-5 feet.

Uncle Ben said:

Regarding rooting your cutting, you could always take the top leaving the bottom 2 node sites to produce 4 main colas, pinch off the petioles at the lower 2 or 3 nodes of the cutting, treat it with rooting gel and sink it into your rooting medium up to the leaf petioles that are left on the cutting. The lower 3 nodes will be your rooting sites, the 4 node sites left with their leafsets intact will produce food for the production of roots. For some strange reason folks seem to think that removing the leaves on a cutting is a good thing.

Click to expand...

That makes sense. I'll consider that on future topping forays. I actually just topped a couple thai super skunks (sativa dom) that were getting pretty leggy, and only stuck one node in the rooting gel, when I could have done at least 2 more...never really thought about it until now.

Uncle Ben said:

Depends on whether you want 4 main colas or a bunch. Again, it's all about apical dominance regarding the action of the auxins which collect in the upper most terminal leaders.

Click to expand...

Is there a point of diminishing returns when topping? I would think that multiple tops would be end up smaller than 4 main ones...

Uncle Ben said:

I don't know what your headspace limitations are, but with such tightly spaced internodes I don't think height is gonna be an issue if you flower around say......12" tall.

Click to expand...

I guess I'm not really topping/LSTing to overcome height restrictions...just trying to maximize the yield per plant.

Uncle Ben said:

You need to experiment so you'll have a better feel of plant responses come your next garden.

Click to expand...

Experimentation is the name of my game right now...this is actually my second grow (more like version 1.5) but it is my first with genetics I paid for and not bagseed.

Thanks for all your help! Really. Your willingness to help is an admirable trait.

Hey UB great thread! I'm only about half way through it all. Lots of great info in here on a variety of topics. TYVM!
Theres one thing i cant figure out. Looking at this picture from page 1. If this plant was topped above the 2nd node, where did the two smaller branches below the 4 main branches come from?? It looks like it was topped above the 4th node?

Jerry Garcia said:

Is there a point of diminishing returns when topping? I would think that multiple tops would be end up smaller than 4 main ones...

Click to expand...

They do get smaller, reason why I've found the best practical approach to do a maximum of 4.

Thanks for all your help! Really. Your willingness to help is an admirable trait.

Click to expand...

My pleasure,
UB

Seedbanks give a rough guide on when they think the plants are mature.

Say, 8 weeks for most strains.

Weather it's a small plant or a super huge monster, it'll take about 8 weeks - then you start looking for maturity in the trichomes and harvest in due course, but monsters dont take longer to bud, and if they take longer to mature, thats just the plant it'self.

itsgrowinglikeaweed said:

Hey UB great thread! I'm only about half way through it all. Lots of great info in here on a variety of topics. TYVM!
Theres one thing i cant figure out. Looking at this picture from page 1. If this plant was topped above the 2nd node, where did the two smaller branches below the 4 main branches come from?? It looks like it was topped above the 4th node?

Click to expand...

Like I said on page one, "The plant after harvest showing the branching scaffold and dominant 4 main cola "trunks", opposing nodes one right above the other. Smaller secondary branches also provided good bud production. This plant yielded over 10 oz of cured bud."

Ever studied the branching habit of a deciduous tree in winter? You'll have main scaffold limbs and then you'll have smaller secondary's. Occasionally a branch will pop off the trunk which should be rubbed off to maintain the form and shape of the tree, but that is neither here nor there. Those secondary's arise from dormant bud tissue that may eventually pop, all depends on hormonal action. Some call them "suckers".

It is quite obvious in the photo that there were indeed 4 main "trunks", aka colas. If you look closely at the lower 2, a collar has formed where it is attached to the trunk. The secondary branches produce less heavy buds or airy buds as opposed to the main colas.

Tio

Ahh "suckers" I see. I wasn't questioning your methods or the "obvious" 4 main trunks. Sorry if it came off like that. I thought a "node" was required for a branch to develop. I asked because this plant I have has a "true" node pretty much right where the cotyledons attached making the true # of "true" nodes a bit more vague than usual. My other plants are obvious but this one i cant decide where to cut it for 4 colas? I guess its right where the "trunk" is that fatest in this picture. That would leave 2 nodes below the cut. I thought that maybe that bottom node NEAR the cotyledons didn't count. And that it would only produce "suckers" like the ones I questioned you about. Sorry, you had to refer to page 1 for me. How embarrassing.

itsgrowinglikeaweed said:

Ahh "suckers" I see. I wasn't questioning your methods or the "obvious" 4 main trunks. Sorry if it came off like that. I thought a "node" was required for a branch to develop. I asked because this plant I have has a "true" node pretty much right where the cotyledons attached making the true # of "true" nodes a bit more vague than usual. My other plants are obvious but this one i cant decide where to cut it for 4 colas? I guess its right where the "trunk" is that fatest in this picture. That would leave 2 nodes below the cut. I thought that maybe that bottom node NEAR the cotyledons didn't count. And that it would only produce "suckers" like the ones I questioned you about. Sorry, you had to refer to page 1 for me. How embarrassing.

Click to expand...

Hey, no apologies needed. The only way you'll become a master gardener is by experimenting. Top here and there and observe the plant's response.

Have fun,
Tio

ganjman said:

Seedbanks give a rough guide on when they think the plants are mature.

Say, 8 weeks for most strains.

Weather it's a small plant or a super huge monster, it'll take about 8 weeks - then you start looking for maturity in the trichomes and harvest in due course, but monsters dont take longer to bud, and if they take longer to mature, thats just the plant it'self.

Click to expand...

Gotta warn you wholeheartedly that I've never actually seen a plant reach proper maturity in the seedbank's quoted flowering period.. The low-ball that to appeal to commercial/impatient growers.. And its sad too because premature weed is depressing and shitty, and pisses me off in general..

born2killspam said:

Gotta warn you wholeheartedly that I've never actually seen a plant reach proper maturity in the seedbank's quoted flowering period.. The low-ball that to appeal to commercial/impatient growers.. And its sad too because premature weed is depressing and shitty, and pisses me off in general..

Click to expand...

I know, i've probably only had, say, 3 strains that finish when they say they finish - otherwise i add another week or two - but the seedbank estimate is going to be the BEST it can do, in hydro probably... and the same for the pic they use - they use the best pic out of aload of pics to represent the strain. It's an estimate at best, but when harvesting i go on the colour of trichomes as thats the only way to be sure of maturity of THC, cbn/cbd/cbc etcetc

Do you stagger harvest to find the actual optimal period?? I've been fooled by trich appearance at 30x magnification before.. It is the best visual approach though no doubt..

sup im just wondering if this will work in hydro, i saw some bullshit about flushes or whatnot affecting this?

can anyone clarify what the deal is peace

Where did you here that?? I never have, and in my experience, topping works the same in hydro, aquaponics (using live fish [well, soon to be dead fish] and supplimentary bacteria), and soil..
Basically I'm beating around the bush trying to say "plants are plants regardless of medium"..

Hey, I have a question for anyone who wants to take a shot at answering it. I'm looking at you two, Uncle Ben and Born2KillSpam.

I have three plants of the same strain, one was Uncle Ben'd early on in its life, the other two were not topped or lst'd or anything goofy. The two highest colas on the 4-cola plant are almost twice the size of the colas on the un-topped plants. Is there any reason that the top colas on my untopped plants don't even compare to the size and apparant density of the colas on the plant that I had topped with your method? By the way, this is all 5 weeks after flipping to 12/12

Thanks!

Genetics, root system, general health, light position?? Likely genetics.. Did you plant the cut top for mothering??

Snak said:

I have three plants of the same strain, one was Uncle Ben'd early on in its life, the other two were not topped or lst'd or anything goofy. The two highest colas on the 4-cola plant are almost twice the size of the colas on the un-topped plants. Is there any reason that the top colas on my untopped plants don't even compare to the size and apparant density of the colas on the plant that I had topped with your method? By the way, this is all 5 weeks after flipping to 12/12

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Looks like Aunt Benita has been waving her magic wand again. Consider yourself lucky.

Take care of your plant's HO Moans.

i herd topping is bad cuz it put stress on the plant and the yeild is less

I heard the iraq war was going to be a short term piece of cake, and that they'd find a ton of WMDs..

Hahaha... Thx for the responses.

I did no mothering of any kind. This is my first grow so I figure I'd keep things as simple as possible. I guess I should have mentioned- The plant that I did top had about a 6 day head start on the other plants. It is still about 2 or 3 inches shorter than its younger companions, due to the fact that I chopped her down to near nothing when she was sprouting her 6th node. But either way, I'm really surprised (and almost a bit worried) at how the buds forming on the topped plant are so much larger than on the other two.

Snak said:

I did no mothering of any kind. This is my first grow so I figure I'd keep things as simple as possible.

Click to expand...

That right there is the reason for your success.

Keep it simple and keep them green,
UB