Uncle Ben's Topping Technique to Get 2 or 4 Main Colas

Katatawnic said:

How tall was the plant? (Mine will only grow to 24" or slightly less.)

Were the resulting the buds very small, average, or somewhere in between?

What was the quality of the buds? (I know that can be subjective, but I'm still curious. lol)

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you can check out her life here
https://www.rollitup.org/harvesting-curing/153144-first-harvest-1-plant-88days.html

it ended up being around 30 inches tall,
buds were pretty nice the very tops being about 7-8g dry each
it was some good quality mid-range buds .... got from bag seed did not appear to be any super strain

hey UB i just wanted to know something important... today i found out that only one of my 5 plants were female (bad times lol) and the plant had 6 true nodes so what i did was take a cut at the top below the last 2nodes and used it as a clone (its rather small) and then i took another cut above the 2nd node of the actual plant which left me with two halves so i planted the top half which also has 2 true nodes... couple of questions... will the two cuttings i took root well? and also, when i took the large cutting i looked at it and it seemed to be hollow inside... is this normal? and finally like you said topping above the 2nd node gives you 4 tops so i assume if they do root each cutting will give me 4 tops... but can i also top each of these tops to give me 16tops and an overall better yield?

please help me out mate

You can turn one large cutting into two cuttings that way, and yes its supposed to be hollow, but you shouldn't be looking at it, you should plant it immediately to avoid air from damaging that hollow tube..

monkz said:

hey UB i just wanted to know something important... today i found out that only one of my 5 plants were female (bad times lol) and the plant had 6 true nodes so what i did was take a cut at the top below the last 2nodes and used it as a clone (its rather small) and then i took another cut above the 2nd node of the actual plant which left me with two halves so i planted the top half which also has 2 true nodes... couple of questions... will the two cuttings i took root well?

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As well as any other, depending on their treatment.

and also, when i took the large cutting i looked at it and it seemed to be hollow inside... is this normal?

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Yep.

and finally like you said topping above the 2nd node gives you 4 tops so i assume if they do root each cutting will give me 4 tops...

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Only if those rooted cuttings are topped above their 2nd node. Rooted cuttings (clones) is tricky. Like a seedling, let them go for about 5 or 6 nodes, and then pinch out above the second node. Veg as usual.

but can i also top each of these tops to give me 16tops and an overall better yield?

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Like I said, the yield of 16 colas versus 4 main colas regarding yield is "iffy". 16 colas will be much smaller than 4 so your mileage may vary. Plants have a way of finding their balance.

Good luck,
UB

Katatawnic said:

In a few days (a week tops) my plants will have grown the first 6 "true" nodes, and they'll be ready to pinch/snip.

The only stupid question is the one that isn't asked (within reason, of course! lol), so I'm posting this photo to verify that I'm correct as to where to pinch/snip.... I'd rather ask a question for which one may think the answer is obvious than to screw it up by not being thorough.

(Sorry for the lack of clarity/constrast, but my digital camera is en route to its manufacturer to be replaced [Polaroid follows through w/warranties, YAY!] and my camcorder takes great videos but not-so-great stills. Add to that that I had to raise the large leaves in order to view the nodes, and without a flash there was too much shadow cast from my hand.)

Thanks in advance for any/all advice!

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"Snip" point looks good to me, with a caveat - what's going on with #1? Is that node #2, meaning "is that very young foliage I see"?

Have fun,
UB

Uncle Ben said:

"Snip" point looks good to me, with a caveat - what's going on with #1? Is that node #2, meaning "is that very young foliage I see"?

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Yes, it's very young foliage.... ungermed seed placed in my AeroGarden on Feb. 20, and already over 1" sprout two days later. I'm not snipping just yet. Just breaking the nasty "doing my homework at the last second" habit I had back in school. Hence my inquiring about this now, before it's time to top instead of cutting and then asking if I'd hit the right spot... that'd be kinda like having sex and then asking about birth control.

The leaves from the node I'd marked as "1" aren't very visible in this shot, because of my needing to lift the leaves out of the way so that the node points could be seen. I put up this photo because I'm a bit unsure as to exactly which is the 1st "true" node.

Uncle Ben said:

The node where the cotyledons attach doesn't count.

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OK, here we go.... are the cotyledons the same as what I've seen others refer to as the "embryos" or is it the next one up? If the cotyledons are the same as the "embryos" then I've gone up one too far, and therefore would be cutting above the 3rd node instead of the 2nd. Which, I'm now guessing, is why you asked if #1 is actually #2. I took two shots for marking what I perceived to be the 1st/2nd "true" nodes; I'll attach both of them in case one is easier to discern than the other.

I could just experiment till the cows come home, but that'd be senseless if I'm going to bother reading detailed instructions for a particular techique. lol

Katatawnic said:

The leaves from the node I'd marked as "1" aren't very visible in this shot, because of my needing to lift the leaves out of the way so that the node points could be seen. I put up this photo because I'm a bit unsure as to exactly which is the 1st "true" node.

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It's the one above the cotyledons aka endosperm or food storage for the embryo, aka seedling. I do not count the cotyledons as a true node as dormant bud output is iffy at best.

Good luck,
UB

Some eye candy fer ya'll on one of my crosses grown outdoors - Positronics Haze X Sensi Skunk ~

Seedling in germ cup topped to get 4 main colas. Notice how leggie it is:



Upcanned into 2nd (and final) pot. Notice 4 outputs which will later be the 4 main colas. Also note that I buried the entire "trunk" up to the first node for additional root output:



Just beginning to flower. Main colas producing alot of secondary branches:



Results - wheelbarrow full of sativa buds from the 4 main colas. (Yes, sativa bud is airy):

Uncle Ben said:

It's the one above the cotyledons aka endosperm or food storage for the embryo, aka seedling.

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OK, I had a feeling I might've been one node too high after I'd posted the first photo/question. Good thing I double-checked, eh?

Thank you again, UB!

You crossed the parents yourself??

420weedman said:

im curious what kind of results you had with fimming/topping and what kind of light your using ?

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guess you missed this on last page ... i guess your growing outside, do you have any pics of what your topped/fimed plants did

Measure twice, cut once.

420weedman said:

guess you missed this on last page ... i guess your growing outside, do you have any pics of what your topped/fimed plants did

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I used to grow indoors with a 1,000W of HID's. Last shot was outdoors. Nothing like dumping some water in a pot and not worrying about it.

I don't do Fuck I Missed. There is a big difference between FIM and my method of topping.

Regarding harvest, I posted results on the first page, guess you need to start there. Here's one such outdoor grown cola out of the 4, 25 oz of bud total and a closeup of typical sativa bud structure.

Uncle Ben said:

Measure twice, cut once.

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I've never really agreed with that.. I'm a fan of measuring twice, making one conservative cut, then shaving down the little bit extra.. Or atleast thats my method for cutting lumber..

Uncle Ben said:

I used to grow indoors with a 1,000W of HID's. Last shot was outdoors. Nothing like dumping some water in a pot and not worrying about it.

I don't do Fuck I Missed. There is a big difference between FIM and my method of topping.

Regarding harvest, I posted results on the first page, guess you need to start there. Here's one such outdoor grown cola out of the 4, 25 oz of bud total and a closeup of typical sativa bud structure.

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yea i saw the first page, but you have been saying how you dont like the results from fim/topping and you do it your way.... i thought you were speaking from experience with both.....

i would love to put my fim/toped/scd bush out side and see what she would do ... but its not possible for me.

anyway like i said in my first post ill compare the 2 methods then but its only a 400 w

420weedman said:

yea i saw the first page, but you have been saying how you dont like the results from fim/topping and you do it your way.... i thought you were speaking from experience with both.....

i would love to put my fim/toped/scd bush out side and see what she would do ... but its not possible for me.

anyway like i said in my first post ill compare the 2 methods then but its only a 400 w

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I have tried both. FIMming to me means cutting right thru a node and hoping to get multiple outputs from dormant buds adjacent to the cut. To me, it's just another ill conceived forum drill meant to sound techie and cool but lacking any degree of reliability or substance.

Nothing wrong with 400 watts, IF, you have a well designed horizontal hood. I grow my best weed with about 25-35 watts per s.f. (see the Griffin's Spin-out link here https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html ) but then again I tweak with a light meter, use moveable reflective side panels to harvest as much usable light as possible, paint the floor white and other tweaks. Ever realized that cannabis gets the least amount of light during its flowering stage? Think outside of the box.

I hear that born2killspam, especiallly with trim work. You should have seen my retail store as we built it. I first hired a guy who was all talk to help me put together the walls up, nothing fell on 4' centers, so after I fired him and hired some pros and got around to putting up the roof covering and outside wall paneling that is dependnet on studs falling on 4' centers to nail too, you should have heard the cussing, moaning and groaning when they found them off by inches either way.

Good luck,
UB

Uncle Ben said:

I have tried both. FIMming to me means cutting right thru a node and hoping to get multiple outputs from dormant buds adjacent to the cut. To me, it's just another ill conceived forum drill meant to sound techie and cool but lacking any degree of reliability or substance.

Nothing wrong with 400 watts, IF, you have a well designed horizontal hood. I grow my best weed with about 25-35 watts per s.f. (see the Griffin's Spin-out link here https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/9114-spin-out-chemical-root-pruning.html ) but then again I tweak with a light meter, use moveable reflective side panels to harvest as much usable light as possible, paint the floor white and other tweaks. Ever realized that cannabis gets the least amount of light during its flowering stage? Think outside of the box.

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"another ill conceived forum drill meant to sound techie and cool but lacking any degree of reliability or substance"

from what ive seen so far ... yeild is greatly improved vs a single cola
i top or fim .. somtimes i just get 2 shoots sometime 3-4... and this is done on the side braches as they catch up to the top as well.
the big one on the previous page has been topped many times over the past 2 months...

everytime theres at least another 2 shoots which turn into SOLID budsites as soon as i put it to flower. being closest to the light ... they get the biggest and theres a shit load of them.... so i see a high degree of reliability and substance

i have a good eazy-cool hood and my 4x4 room has mylar on 3 sides and plants are on a white table.

I have tried both. FIMming to me means cutting right thru a node and hoping to get multiple outputs from dormant buds adjacent to the cut.

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Take a look at the pic I linked to in post 296.. If done 'properly' as per that pic, you're just missing the actual node.. But thats a REALLY small area to work in..
Apparently the Fuck I Missed term arose because the person actually meant to top, but by todays standards, the method should be called Fuck I Didn't Miss..
And I kind of question the Fuck I Missed term, because back in the overgrow days, the method was out there, and ppl always asked what it stood for, but nobody knew.. Some ppl believed they were random letters for ppl to ponder like the Lost numbers..
M Blaze, if you get predictable results when you FIM, what do you use to make the cut? A scalpel of sorts?

hey UB how my plants are 5weeks in veg, thanx for all the help btw,
i topped them like you said so how much longer do i wait till i flower coz they look small now since theres only 2 nodes..
will the yield be small if i flower now?

I would at least wait a week for them to recover. You can always yield more if you let your plants go a little longer.