Two questions about police raids / seach warrants

What happens if police executing a search warrant are physically unable to enter the home? For example if doors are enforced against a battering ram and windows are protected by burglar bars or security shutters, what can police do to enter the house?

My second question is can police break into or take a safe in your house if they cannot open it? Do they have the right to take a wall safe if they don't have probable cause that something is inside of it specifically?

Any references to situations like this would be appreciated.

if they have warrants they won't go away until they are in and they have the authority to open or break open anything they want. it's really fucked up that complete strangers can break into your house and make your life a living hell all over a plant and in the name of the law.

if they have a warrant they are coming in regardless of what you do.

once inside if they find an illegal grow, that will be probable cause to open your safe.

physically unable to enter a home???

are you fucking crazy???

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see that gate??? they attach a chain to a 400HP truck, and yank it right off the house....

see them bust into/tear the doors clean off of a few different addresses, even the wrong ones, then leave without even apoligizing???

i'd like to see you try and keep the cops from executing a search warrant.

funny funny funny....

I'm not a member of the ABA, so this is not legal advice, just some personal opinions:

They will use battering rams, torches, explosives and raw brute force.... but they will get in.

Yes, they can take your safe and cut it open to look for evidence.

A search warrant must detail what they expect to find and where they expect to find it. They can't just tear up every inch of your house looking for incriminating evidence unless it pertains to the warrant.

They would simply tear the door or window bars off if they had a warrant and you didn't allow them in. If they found something incriminating and could reasonably suspect the safe may be involved then yes they can take it.

I'm sure if they really couldn't get in and you were there, they would charge you with obstruction of justice or some shit like that. Eventually you have to come out.

guy incognito said:

A search warrant must detail what they expect to find and where they expect to find it. They can't just tear up every inch of your house looking for incriminating evidence unless it pertains to the warrant.

They would simply tear the door or window bars off if they had a warrant and you didn't allow them in. If they found something incriminating and could reasonably suspect the safe may be involved then yes they can take it.

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you are wrong.

police will enter a home and secure the entire premises. anything in plain view is fair game. once anything incriminating is found inside the home, that creates probable cause to search the rest of the house.

redivider said:

you are wrong.

police will enter a home and secure the entire premises. anything in plain view is fair game. once anything incriminating is found inside the home, that creates probable cause to search the rest of the house.

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No I am not. The search warrant must specify what they are looking for and where they expect to find it. It is not an open invitation to tear your house apart inch by inch. If they find anything incriminating then they can continue their search for anything related to that, but not until then. If they suspected you of a huge grow op and got a warrant and came into your home and you in fact had no huge grow op going in any of the rooms, they could not start rifling through dressers and computers hoping to find SOMETHING incriminating. It will detail on the warrant what they are expecting to find, and where they reasonably expect to find it. If you have no huge grow op or no growing supplies they would have to simply leave once they discovered that, unless there was something else incriminating (for ANY crime) discovered in the process.

If it is in plain view then hell yes they will continue to search..you are correct though the initial warrant must be detailed.

guy incognito said:

No I am not. The search warrant must specify what they are looking for and where they expect to find it. It is not an open invitation to tear your house apart inch by inch. If they find anything incriminating then they can continue their search for anything related to that, but not until then. If they suspected you of a huge grow op and got a warrant and came into your home and you in fact had no huge grow op going in any of the rooms, they could not start rifling through dressers and computers hoping to find SOMETHING incriminating. It will detail on the warrant what they are expecting to find, and where they reasonably expect to find it. If you have no huge grow op or no growing supplies they would have to simply leave once they discovered that, unless there was something else incriminating (for ANY crime) discovered in the process.

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My friend, I can appreciate your knowledge of the law, but if they see a lighter, that is paraphernalia which in law terms translates to probable cause. The only way to defeat this is not have anything illegal or what could be deemed as something used for illegal purposes. Remember at this point in time, the law is on their side... not ours, regardless.

To answer the original question, if they have a warrant yes they'll be taking everything and unless you live in a bank vault... they'll be getting in.

hydrotoncleaner said:

My friend, I can appreciate your knowledge of the law, but if they see a lighter, that is paraphernalia which in law terms translates to probable cause. The only way to defeat this is not have anything illegal or what could be deemed as something used for illegal purposes. Remember at this point in time, the law is on their side... not ours, regardless.

To answer the original question, if they have a warrant yes they'll be taking everything and unless you live in a bank vault... they'll be getting in.

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Lighters are not illegal. Most uses of lighters are for legal purposes. Lighters are NOT probable cause to search, and anything found after a search conducted with a lighter as the probable cause will not be admissible.

Things that could be used for illegal purposes are also not illegal. If they suspect you of child porn and they have a warrant to get your laptop and hard drives only, and they spot a lighter on your couch they CANNOT use that as probable cause to start a search for other unrelated contraband.

I am not disputing anything accidentally uncovered during their search, or anything in plain view won't be taken and used against you. They don't just have free reign to do whatever they want just because they have a search warrant though. If they suspect you of a commercial grow op, and get a warrant based on that information and you arent growing any marijuana at all, they can't just start searching for other things.

search warrants pertaining to drugs cover the whole house.

if you have roomates, it covers the suspects bedroom, as well as common areas of the house.

police will go in and secure the WHOLE house. drug warrants usually state that occupants may be armed and dangerous, even if it's not true. oh, they're not supposed to search everywhere, but they WILL secure the whole house, which means they'll clear every room of ppl, put them in handcuffs, and sit them down somewhere.

drug warrants are especially vague b/c drugs can be hidden in a number of places. so they bring in a sniffer dog, and once that dog alerts, there's probable cause to search the ENTIRE premises.

just like when during the course of a traffic stop my passenger is found with weed in his pocket, in my car. they'll search the WHOLE car, b /c there's probable cause created.

point is if they have a warrant to enter the house, you're going down.... b/c no matter how much you hide shit, they'll find it, and if they can't search where you hid it, they'll find some other bullshit reason to create probable cause, and then search. they'll tell you your going to jail, lying, so you'll freak out and assault a police office in the house, which creates probable cause to search.... they'll do anything....

the only way to avoid it is to keep the police outside the door... PERIOD.

Guy isn't wrong, warrants are different...counties are different. And everyone is right - they will get in.