True HP Aero For 2011

PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Parts Tip:

Hurray. I found a better PVC Coupler at Lowes. This one has much shorter threads AND a locking ring. The shorter threads will help the mist to reach the starter cube. The locking ring will help keep the plant from listing/falling.

Mike Y you might consider these along with making a CD size washer to for top /bottom of your styrofoam/ biskets for added strength. hth



Part # 25018. Schedule 40 called a Slip Joint Nut and Washer 1 1/2". Comes in a baggie, so you might need to ask. $2.66 each set
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Trichy Bastard said:
That's another fine example of me not getting enough sleep... Thanks for the correction...

By the way- I've solved my filter setup/concerns. I found a 10" clear filter housing ( http://www.filtersfast.com/Pentek-158116-Filter-Housing.asp )that specifically has no air bleed valve, and bought some 1 micron filters for it. The plan is to install it between the res and the pump. I will install a jg check valve on the inlet of my pickup line (the very tip), and if air still gets in the system there will also be a y splitter with 2 on/off valves on each branch just after the pump, but before the accumulator. If I find air got into the pickup line during maintenance or res cleaning, I will simply close the valve from the Y going to the accumulator, and open the the other valve that circles back to the res. I'd have a switch to manually kick the pump in and cycle it until the air is quickly forced out- but bypassing all my components other than the pump and filter. -I knew I'd figure it out sooner or later... :)
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I would avoid a "clear" housing as you will have nutes in there 24/7 being exposed to light. You could wrap it in a bag of some sort that is easy to open close, so you can inspect as you feel the need hth
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
hammer21 said:
Yes i agree but the temp that they used makes sense with all the set ups i have read about and seen this is a learning curve everyone is going threw we all need to take the good the bad and the ugly and learn from it. it`s like a puzzle what really works the best. No one person is the expert that i can tell.
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Lower temps are always a good thing with any system but there are a few differences to consider between the articles 13yr old approach and todays. Those guys were using relatively small tubes with an extended misting duration and coarse mist. A small chamber choked with wet roots would be very susceptable to issues from high temps. A large chamber filled with superfine mist every minute or so will fair much better unless the nutes in the accumulator are way above room temp.
My chamber temp is currently 71.2F with 97% RH, over the last 2-3days the min/max hygro-thermometer in the chamber recorded a maximum 81.6F with 95% RH and a minimum 68.4F with 96% RH. My roots are in slightly better shape than theirs.
 
Mike Young

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
you might consider these along with making a CD size washer to for top /bottom of your styrofoam/ biskets for added strength. hth
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There is no need for reinforcing my tops. They are plenty strong. The styrofoam is dense, and the biscuit fits tight. I thought I covered this on the HP aero board on that stagnant R3 site??? Scrog net will be holding up most of the weight, but I think it would be fine even without the net. I may need to anchor the tops to the frame they rest on, but that would take 5 minutes and won't be necessary until late in the grow:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF4h1GXY9uY
 
hammer21

hammer21

Well-Known Member
Atomizer is there any way for you to maintain a chamber temperture and get rid of the swing i would like to hear the results after 2 weeks? Thanks Wrap chambers and res with styro foam, blankets etc? sitting direct on concrete?
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
I would avoid a "clear" housing as you will have nutes in there 24/7 being exposed to light. You could wrap it in a bag of some sort that is easy to open close, so you can inspect as you feel the need hth
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Ahh yes, thanks PF chang... I forgot to mention that I'm going to build some sort of cabinet to house all my plumbing including the res, and the filter... I know to keep the light away, I hate nasties... :)
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
hammer21 said:
Yes i agree but the temp that they used makes sense with all the set ups i have read about and seen this is a learning curve everyone is going threw we all need to take the good the bad and the ugly and learn from it. it`s like a puzzle what really works the best. No one person is the expert that i can tell.
Click to expand...
Well, I've actually seen that before, and I used to believe it was good info. But that was until I saw the work Treefarmer and Atomizer were doing. They can blow that :fire:bleeding bitch out of the water... hehe... There was alot of information in there that has been much improved on here, and actually, the more you know Atomizer, you'll realize he is quite an expert... (At least my opinion).
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
Lower temps are always a good thing with any system but there are a few differences to consider between the articles 13yr old approach and todays. Those guys were using relatively small tubes with an extended misting duration and coarse mist. A small chamber choked with wet roots would be very susceptable to issues from high temps. A large chamber filled with superfine mist every minute or so will fair much better unless the nutes in the accumulator are way above room temp.
My chamber temp is currently 71.2F with 97% RH, over the last 2-3days the min/max hygro-thermometer in the chamber recorded a maximum 81.6F with 95% RH and a minimum 68.4F with 96% RH. My roots are in slightly better shape than theirs.
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Slightly? did something happen, or is that a facetious/modest combo? :) Perhaps you should be mensing in your res...
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Mike Young said:
There is no need for reinforcing my tops. They are plenty strong. The styrofoam is dense, and the biscuit fits tight. I thought I covered this on the HP aero board on that stagnant R3 site??? Scrog net will be holding up most of the weight, but I think it would be fine even without the net. I may need to anchor the tops to the frame they rest on, but that would take 5 minutes and won't be necessary until late in the grow:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF4h1GXY9uY
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Dude- if you keep thumpin your stalks like that, the leaves are never gonna grow back! Try adding some N and Fe- the stalk isn't green enough... -hth :weed:
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Well, sorry about the multiple posts- this is actually my first few months on a forum ever, and I don't have the hang of everything yet- I just learned how to quote in messages last month (thanks Atomizer for setting the example). Also I am corny because I haven't slept but 3 days this week. Been obsessing over buying my parts- the plumbing was a real bitch- and like everyone says- it's where u get ****ed. I spent 300 bucks to the John Guest charity fund between 2 different online stores. But- I can finally relax this weekend and hang out with my girlfirend who probably thinks I abandoned her for for a high pressure pump ( I could see some possible upside to that)... Anywho- we've been together for over 4 years, and she is used to my adhd/ocd compulsions by now. The rest of the parts should be showing up over the next week or 2 max, and then I'm ready to build my barn burner. -You know- really "get to the roots of the matter"... :) I'm now focused on trying to broaden my horizons on nutrients, especially in the context of an aero environment. The only other thing I have to figure out is how I will suspend my rootscreen in the bottom of my reservoir to keep them out of any potential pooling runoff. I wonder if I could levitate them by a magnetically charged field (gotta ask hammer21 about this)... For now I will investigate the nft capillary mat that atomizer recommended, or perhaps some fiber weedmat would work?
 
hammer21

hammer21

Well-Known Member

Hydrogen atom (center) contains a single proton and a single electron. Removal of the electron gives a cation (left), whereas addition of an electron gives an anion (right). The hydrogen anion, with its loosely held two-electron cloud, has a larger radius than the neutral atom, which in turn is much larger than the bare proton of the cation. Hydrogen forms the only cation that has no electrons, but even cations that (unlike hydrogen) still retain one or more electrons, are still smaller than the neutral atoms or molecules from which they are derived.


An ion is an atom or molecule in which the total number of electrons is not equal to the total number of protons, giving it a net positive or negative electrical charge. The name was given by physicist Michael Faraday for the substances that allow a current to pass ("go") between electrodes in a solution, when an electric field is applied. It is from Greek ιον, meaning "going."
An anion (pronounced /ˈæn.aɪ.ən/ an-eye-ən), from the Greek word ἄνω (ánō), meaning "up", is an ion with more electrons than protons, giving it a net negative charge (since electrons are negatively charged and protons are positively charged). Conversely, a cation (pronounced /ˈkæt.aɪ.ən/ kat-eye-ən), from the Greek word κατά (katá), meaning "down", is an ion with fewer electrons than protons, giving it a positive charge. Since the charge on a proton is equal in magnitude to the charge on an electron, the net charge on an ion is equal to the number of protons in the ion minus the number of electrons.
An ion consisting of a single atom is an atomic or monatomic ion; if it consists of two or more atoms, it is a molecular or polyatomic ion. (You can do it TRICHY )
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
hammer21 said:

Hydrogen atom (center) contains a single proton and a single electron. Removal of the electron gives a cation (left), whereas addition of an electron gives an anion (right). The hydrogen anion, with its loosely held two-electron cloud, has a larger radius than the neutral atom, which in turn is much larger than the bare proton of the cation. Hydrogen forms the only cation that has no electrons, but even cations that (unlike hydrogen) still retain one or more electrons, are still smaller than the neutral atoms or molecules from which they are derived.

An ion is an atom or molecule in which the total number of electrons is not equal to the total number of protons, giving it a net positive or negative electrical charge. The name was given by physicist Michael Faraday for the substances that allow a current to pass ("go") between electrodes in a solution, when an electric field is applied. It is from Greek ιον, meaning "going."
An anion (pronounced /ˈæn.aɪ.ən/ an-eye-ən), from the Greek word ἄνω (ánō), meaning "up", is an ion with more electrons than protons, giving it a net negative charge (since electrons are negatively charged and protons are positively charged). Conversely, a cation (pronounced /ˈkæt.aɪ.ən/ kat-eye-ən), from the Greek word κατά (katá), meaning "down", is an ion with fewer electrons than protons, giving it a positive charge. Since the charge on a proton is equal in magnitude to the charge on an electron, the net charge on an ion is equal to the number of protons in the ion minus the number of electrons.
An ion consisting of a single atom is an atomic or monatomic ion; if it consists of two or more atoms, it is a molecular or polyatomic ion. (You can do it TRICHY )
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Thanks for the PH routine hammer ;). I am actually versed in this as science is a huge passion for me (theoretical astrophysics more specifically). It's the actual art of figuring out nutrients in a horticultural sense that I have alot to learn. I only really recently fully understood transpiration, and gained a deeper understanding of what nute burn really is- and it's not really a burn, but a dehydration due to the hydrophilic qualities of salt en vivo is how I view it now. But seriously- after tossing seeds in the dirt all my life, it's hard to really believe there is so much complexity and chemistry going on behind the scenes -such as exampled in your post...
 
Mike Young

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
Since we're on the subject of nutes. What are y'all planning to use? I have some aquaflakes leftover, so I'll probably just use it again. I worked well last time. Other than that I only plan on using silica & cal/mag, but I've been considering leaving them out. I ran almost the entire grow without calmag last time, and didn't notice any difference after adding it. I wanna keep it as simple as possible. I really don't think alot of what people put in their res is necessary. I'd like to know if anybody (atomizer) has used H&G nutes in HPA before?
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
It would have to be something more major than 81F to get them to slide that far :mrgreen:
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Wow- it's like the difference between cheap ramen noodles and angel wings... Even funnier is the caption on their roots saying "healthy roots make happy plants and rapid growth" ROFL!
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Mike Young said:
Since we're on the subject of nutes. What are y'all planning to use? I have some aquaflakes leftover, so I'll probably just use it again. I worked well last time. Other than that I only plan on using silica & cal/mag, but I've been considering leaving them out. I ran almost the entire grow without calmag last time, and didn't notice any difference after adding it. I wanna keep it as simple as possible. I really don't think alot of what people put in their res is necessary. I'd like to know if anybody (atomizer) has used H&G nutes in HPA before?
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Well, my original idea was to use dynagrow since I know it well enough, and have had a good experience with it. Just a mix of the grow, bloom, protekt(silica), and will need some magpro since I use ro water now... But I am seriously questioning if it's a bad idea. The ratios in my proposed regimen would be far off that of Atomizer's, and I'd say it looks like he has stuff dialed in pretty good. Check out Homebrewers experiments, he knows how to dial in his stuff for his particular setup... I think he's pretty much as efficient as he can be for the flood/drain setup he uses, and you can see someone else that has good experience with dynagrow's regimen-LINK: https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/358562-dyna-gro-vs-general-hydroponics.html . Anyway- I assume there is a fairly big difference in what will work on ebb/flow vs. HPA - so I guess it's back to the drawing board for me. BTW- I beleive Atomizer uses a homebrew nutes that are modeled after the Canna Hydro/Substra series which were designed for DTW. So if The Canna is available in your area, it might be the easy way to go, you can just ask Atomaizer what ec levels he runs and only have to fine tune from there...

Also, I agree that most of those extra bottles are worthless junk, don't get sucked into the marketing ploys of profit driven nute companies- the homebrewer link I posted really proves my point...
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
I think most nutes would work, TF had great results with GH 3-part nutes. Use what you have and see how it goes..theres no sense in blowing cash if you dont need to.
I raised the chamber temp to 90F today to see if anything would keel over in the heat. Apart from having to reduce the pause a little to push more mist through, the roots are doing fine. I`ll give it another 12 hours for good measure ;)
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
I think most nutes would work, TF had great results with GH 3-part nutes. Use what you have and see how it goes..theres no sense in blowing cash if you dont need to.
I raised the chamber temp to 90F today to see if anything would keel over in the heat. Apart from having to reduce the pause a little to push more mist through, the roots are doing fine. I`ll give it another 12 hours for good measure ;)
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Okay- I like that idea, who knows, perhaps I will inadvertantly stumble upon a new regimen that works quite well for this application. On the other hand, I believe in initially eliminating as many deviations from the proven method as possible, because if I run into issues, I may have a hard time figuring out which difference is the culprit. Thanks for running the temp test A, I hope there is no negative consequence to your established crop. If I remember correctly, the controversial fatman mentioned that the roots became more efficient at warmer temps as long as humidity and co2 were also set to the task- not sure what the ceiling was though.

BTW- is there any general difference you've noticed in the aeroponic application of nutes vs. other methods- i.e. use less calcium or something?
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Mike Young said:
Since we're on the subject of nutes. What are y'all planning to use? I have some aquaflakes leftover, so I'll probably just use it again. I worked well last time. Other than that I only plan on using silica & cal/mag, but I've been considering leaving them out. I ran almost the entire grow without calmag last time, and didn't notice any difference after adding it. I wanna keep it as simple as possible. I really don't think alot of what people put in their res is necessary. I'd like to know if anybody (atomizer) has used H&G nutes in HPA before?
Click to expand...
CalMg is a product to use when it is not part of your water source (ie RO) and/or nutrients. Last grow I used all DM Gold- Zone, Silica, Grow/Flower A&B + Add.27. I had minimal pH swings or colonies clogging up my prefilter. Results were excellent, BUT, from what I've read on DIY nute threads, our plants don't need a bunch of additives, especially when grown in an atomized constant feed environment. So when I run out of these I am switching to DM ONE + Zone + Silica; but during Flower still use ONE Grow, but bump it with DM Potash+. hth
 
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