True HP Aero For 2011

Mike Young

Mike Young

Well-Known Member
I think you better buy a bigger pump if you intend to have success with those nozzles. Running them at minimum operating pressure will not give you the results you're after. http://www.steamshop.com/4023antidrip.pdf

My nozzles don't drip. I have a pretty short run of tubing totalling less than 2' per solenoid (2 nozzles each). If my nozzles aren't on an even plane, that's another story. I realized this when I tried to drop 2 of my 4 nozzles. They were peein themselves bigtime! If I dedicate a solenoid to the low nozzles and the other to the high I can resolve this problem.

As long as you nozzles don't drip, I wouldn't worry a big deal about it unless you are going for .1 sec bursts. I know a few larger droplets are created while the pressure builds, but I'm happy as hell with the roots that got decent coverage in my last go. And if I get the kind of results from having a single chamber with 4 nozzles... I think we gonna see some happy roots! :)
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Mine don't drip either, there all at the same height, all have a CV in the noz, and that height is higher then everything else in the system. I just think with a high ass cracking point CV in them to boot, well.. how can't that help get pulses even more crisp and accurate? Call it a pour mans noid at every noz hpa setup, if the coverage was adequate, they'd have a place in this field.

#4023
.59 .75 .84 .94 1.02 1.19 1.33 GPH
100 160 200 250 300 400 500 PSI
Ya i guess they do design um for high ass pressures. That could be good though. I don't think that means they wouldn't be any good at 120psi. For me, they'd only be worth switching to, if they delivered there payload with some sorta force, the spray angle suggests to me it might.. and if they sprayed even less out per burst then the cloudtops, digs, etc,.. and if we got .1 timer setting down more toward .1 burst,.. not .3 due to that big CV in them that'd be cool. If i test um i'll share what i find. I think they might have a place in the right setup, i'm really wondering about them in cans which is so easy for everyone to grow in.
 
Trichy Bastard

Trichy Bastard

Well-Known Member
Mike Young said:
I think you better buy a bigger pump if you intend to have success with those nozzles. Running them at minimum operating pressure will not give you the results you're after. http://www.steamshop.com/4023antidrip.pdf

My nozzles don't drip. I have a pretty short run of tubing totalling less than 2' per solenoid (2 nozzles each). If my nozzles aren't on an even plane, that's another story. I realized this when I tried to drop 2 of my 4 nozzles. They were peein themselves bigtime! If I dedicate a solenoid to the low nozzles and the other to the high I can resolve this problem.

As long as you nozzles don't drip, I wouldn't worry a big deal about it unless you are going for .1 sec bursts. I know a few larger droplets are created while the pressure builds, but I'm happy as hell with the roots that got decent coverage in my last go. And if I get the kind of results from having a single chamber with 4 nozzles... I think we gonna see some happy roots! :)
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Yes, I'll say that Atomizer has proven although not the very best situation, the ADVs will work fine. The only issue I had was when DIYer was looking at very low psi crackpoints in the components he was mentioning at first...
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Get the bloody thing built with whatever you have already lol. At worse it`ll give you a baseline for comparisons and there`s nothing to stop you from switching out the nozzles later on. I dont know what you`re naffing about at ;)
Looking at the spec of the 4023, you`d need 550psi to produce the ideal droplet range of 5-80 micron (sauter mean ~21microns), at 100psi you`ll get a good percentage of larger droplets over 100 microns.
 
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dickkhead

Active Member
Trichy Bastard said:
lol.. :D

Anyway... tips of each branch, or the leaftips? Have you tried to take a look at some plant problem/deficiency recommendation charts? Can you send me a pic or two of the issue along with perhaps any relevant info such as temps, ppm and type of nutes?
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It's on the new growth and it's new leaves the whole leaf I'll email a pic
 
DoktorD1313

DoktorD1313

Member
Holy Crap that was a lot of reading! I finally got done catching up on the thread (read all 2,065 posts). I didn't want to join in before reading up on everything so I knew exactly what was going on with everybody.

I'm gonna be starting to build my setup here real soon, it's all drawn out on paper and I just need to finish gathering up a few of the components. For the most part, I've decided on all of my components and have received most of them or already had them readily available to me. I can't tell you how nice it is to run a hardware store ;)

Really, the only parts I'm still largely debating over are the nozzles. I could very well order nozzles from work, but they are the Arizona Mist nozzles and I'm not sure what diameter orifice they have, nor the flow rates. Not to mention I have no idea what size the water droplets would be.

I'm kinda tempted to get a few nozzles from HERE. Someone on here posted to that site, but from what I remember nobody actually went through with purchasing them. They have a nice orifice to flowrate to psi chart on there. I can't attest to it's accuracy, and I sure wouldn't take their word for it, but at least that gives you some ballpark figures. They say that they can achieve 50 microns (although who knows how true that is). Even though I will have solenoids, the anti-drip feature does seem interesting to try in the interest of getting a little more control. I'd haveta get them and take some measurements to see how the anti-drip affects flow rate/droplet size. However, I'm only getting three nozzles (three nozzles in my chamber) and maybe a backup, so I should be able to get them and just experiment. Best part is, I can remove the anti-drip feature if need be since it unthreads.

I'm very on the fence with this one. I know Atomizer and others have found proven nozzles, but listening to TB's and other's problems with quality and such, I'd rather avoid problems if I can. The largest drawback that's making me unsure is the fact that if I use proven nozzles, that's one less variable I'd have to iron out myself. It's not like I can't go back and change out/tweak/try out other nozzles once I get the system working with proven ones.

Decisions, decisions!
 
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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
I`ve tested fogco and amfog nozzles with various orifice sizes ( identifiable by the colour of the 0-ring usually) which look very similar to those.
The mist quality is pretty good at higher pressure but they are very, very prone to partial clogging and they dont have much of a throw distance.
If those nozzles are comparable with fogco, the 0.3mm (0.0118") orifice with 95-100psi should deliver a sauter mean value of 21microns, aka the correct droplet range.
 
T

tree farmer

Well-Known Member
Mike Young said:
I think you better buy a bigger pump if you intend to have success with those nozzles. Running them at minimum operating pressure will not give you the results you're after. http://www.steamshop.com/4023antidrip.pdf

My nozzles don't drip. I have a pretty short run of tubing totalling less than 2' per solenoid (2 nozzles each). If my nozzles aren't on an even plane, that's another story. I realized this when I tried to drop 2 of my 4 nozzles. They were peein themselves bigtime! If I dedicate a solenoid to the low nozzles and the other to the high I can resolve this problem.

As long as you nozzles don't drip, I wouldn't worry a big deal about it unless you are going for .1 sec bursts. I know a few larger droplets are created while the pressure builds, but I'm happy as hell with the roots that got decent coverage in my last go. And if I get the kind of results from having a single chamber with 4 nozzles... I think we gonna see some happy roots! :)
Click to expand...
i saw the roots that you finished with mike and saw how they mushroomed out at the top and choked out the bottom portion. you can train your roots to avoid this by extending the JG tubing and placing the nozzles real low to begin with so the roots from the get go drop down to the bottom of the container. once they have spread out along the bottom you then can shorten the tubing and lift the nozzles up higher and face them slightly away from the netpot and the roots will start to crawl the walls and fill the whole space of the container rather than bunch up along the net pot. i know this has worked with me but im not certain it will work exactly the same for you since your nozzles are different than an impingment nozzle that throws mist everywhere but even with your nozzles the roots will definatly follow the misters down if they are kept low from the getgo. might have to face the nozzles upward slightly if the nozzles arent filling the whole space with mist evenly while they are down low. also im not quit sure how it would work with those bags that colapse but if your going to a solid one piece container then no problem.
 
DoktorD1313

DoktorD1313

Member
Atomizer said:
I`ve tested fogco and amfog nozzles with various orifice sizes ( identifiable by the colour of the 0-ring usually) which look very similar to those.
The mist quality is pretty good at higher pressure but they are very, very prone to partial clogging and they dont have much of a throw distance.
If those nozzles are comparable with fogco, the 0.3mm (0.0118") orifice with 95-100psi should deliver a sauter mean value of 21microns, aka the correct droplet range.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, Atomizer! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the ideal droplet size was 50 microns? Maybe I'm getting my numbers mixed up, but I thought that was the general consensus when it came to target droplet size? I definitely appreciate the insight on the nozzles! I'll haveta watch for clogging if these nozzles are as prone as the fogcos.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
5-80 microns is the ideal range with the bulk of the droplets being between 30 and 80. No nozzle puts out a single droplet size ;)
 
DoktorD1313

DoktorD1313

Member
Atomizer said:
5-80 microns is the ideal range with the bulk of the droplets being between 30 and 80. No nozzle puts out a single droplet size ;)
Click to expand...
Ahh, I got what you were saying. I was thinking average droplet size of 50, but I guess averaging a smaller droplet size would be better than having an average of 50 with a good deal of larger droplets in there defeating the purpose of the ideal droplets. Thanks for clearing that up!
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
Get the bloody thing built with whatever you have already lol.
Click to expand...
Well i don't know about you but i can do a few things at once. I hooked up the pressure switch and noid last night to get it set, precharged my tank to 108psi, and got a few other things in place, so it's being build while i also talk shop on other ideas. Check me out, the amazing multitasker!! lol

Atomizer said:
Looking at the spec of the 4023, you`d need 550psi to produce the ideal droplet range
Click to expand...
Ummm, you sure you looked at the right specs? Because the 4023's specs only go up to 500psi. You can try to push 550 through them if you want "Arnold", lol ..but as i said before, i don't think anyone's tested these so no one knows what they can really do.

DoktorD1313 said:
I'm very on the fence with this one. I know Atomizer and others have found proven nozzles, but listening to TB's and other's problems with quality and such, I'd rather avoid problems if I can. The largest drawback that's making me unsure is the fact that if I use proven nozzles, that's one less variable I'd have to iron out myself. It's not like I can't go back and change out/tweak/try out other nozzles once I get the system working with proven ones.

Decisions, decisions!
Click to expand...
First off, welcome! Welcome to the top of the reading mountain anyway, lol. Secondly, i can second Atomizer's opinion on those nozzles you linked, i've tried them as well, they do clog easy and the mist is kind of all over like a cloud, not much like it's going anywhere. There not cleanable really either. If you run a HW store you should be able to get some Digs id think. There cheap, seem to have some force from what I've seen in Mike's videos, and come apart to clean real easy. The Digs with the purple tip are the ones to get if you go that route.

tree farmer said:
i saw the roots that you finished with mike and saw how they mushroomed out at the top and choked out the bottom portion. you can train your roots to avoid this by extending the JG tubing and placing the nozzles real low to begin with so the roots from the get go drop down to the bottom of the container. once they have spread out along the bottom you then can shorten the tubing and lift the nozzles up higher and face them slightly away from the netpot and the roots will start to crawl the walls and fill the whole space of the container rather than bunch up along the net pot. i know this has worked with me but im not certain it will work exactly the same for you since your nozzles are different than an impingment nozzle that throws mist everywhere but even with your nozzles the roots will definitely follow the misters down if they are kept low from the getgo. might have to face the nozzles upward slightly if the nozzles arent filling the whole space with mist evenly while they are down low. also im not quit sure how it would work with those bags that colapse but if your going to a solid one piece container then no problem.
Click to expand...

That's a god damn good idea... i might have to multitask some more and incorporate that.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
DIYer said:

Ummm, you sure you looked at the right specs? Because the 4023's specs only go up to 500psi. You can try to push 550 through them if you want "Arnold", lol ..but as i said before, i don't think anyone's tested these so no one knows what they can really do.
.
Click to expand...
More wild ass assumptions? ;)
Its plain to see in the pdf you linked to..check out page 2 under the heading Sauter Mean Diameter at various operating pressures.
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
More wild ass assumptions? ;)
Its plain to see in the pdf you linked to..check out page 2 under the heading Sauter Mean Diameter at various operating pressures.
Click to expand...
i stand corrected, you can push them to 600psi... who the hell is pushing bug spray out at 600psi, lol... still doesn't mean you know what they won't do at 120psi.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
It states what they can do from 600psi -150psi, i guess you expect the average droplet size range to magically become smaller at 120psi when its less than ideal at 150psi?
Its not about pressure, its about droplet size. You have a better chance of hitting a bug with a billion small droplets than you do with one cannonball sized droplet ;)
The pressure provides the means of creating the correct droplet size.
 
D

dickkhead

Active Member
tree farmer said:
i saw the roots that you finished with mike and saw how they mushroomed out at the top and choked out the bottom portion. you can train your roots to avoid this by extending the JG tubing and placing the nozzles real low to begin with so the roots from the get go drop down to the bottom of the container. once they have spread out along the bottom you then can shorten the tubing and lift the nozzles up higher and face them slightly away from the netpot and the roots will start to crawl the walls and fill the whole space of the container rather than bunch up along the net pot. i know this has worked with me but im not certain it will work exactly the same for you since your nozzles are different than an impingment nozzle that throws mist everywhere but even with your nozzles the roots will definatly follow the misters down if they are kept low from the getgo. might have to face the nozzles upward slightly if the nozzles arent filling the whole space with mist evenly while they are down low. also im not quit sure how it would work with those bags that colapse but if your going to a solid one piece container then no problem.
Click to expand...
do you think a 4x4 trey for the top in a pvc frame or wood strapping with 4 ft legs and then wrap the inside of the frame with reflective material and have the bottom be another 4x4 trey for drainage would do well? I have a 4x8 tent that id eventually like to turn the whole thing into hp aero but using half of it now to figure out the best chamber size. the 5 gallon buckets stacked worked but not good enough, a trash can did ok but again not good enough. any reccomendations? thanks
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
dickkhead said:
do you think a 4x4 trey for the top in a pvc frame or wood strapping with 4 ft legs and then wrap the inside of the frame with reflective material and have the bottom be another 4x4 trey for drainage would do well? I have a 4x8 tent that id eventually like to turn the whole thing into hp aero but using half of it now to figure out the best chamber size. the 5 gallon buckets stacked worked but not good enough, a trash can did ok but again not good enough. any reccomendations? thanks
Click to expand...
Hows a trash can not work good enough?.. mike gets great results with trash cans. If you're stuck in a 4x8 tent, (unless you just wanna play like some folks) i think you gotta think about how much more you can really get out of that space. A slew of growing methods, along with enough light above, would more then fill that footprint with fruit. If you're not to date, i don't know if going hpa to fill it is really the right answer. But if i was gonna stick hpa into a 4x4 footprint, id go pvc frame and black white poly, make the whole 4x4 area a root chamber. .02 cents
 
D

DIYer

Well-Known Member
Boy is amazing what you can accomplish on a Sunday when no footballs on. One HPA setup including acc hooked up and misting @ 120psi, even if it is on 1 full second bursts ATM, sub 1 second timer is like a check, in the mail. Forskin was right though, this ain't rocket science.

time to bongsmilie

PS: I also got to digging out my 12V horse of a water pump, marine battery, trickle charger, and inverter. I have everything but the lights running off it. Let the power go out!! Not that it ever does :roll:

After it all runs for a bit and i see everything's ok, i'm gonna swap the charger for my solar panel and see if i can power the pump&noid off only the room light furthest from the plants, ha! If it's not enough juice i'm sure sticking it behind the solar shade covering my window will be. Christ, this is a cool, really fail safe way to grow...


:peace:
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
You`d have to buy one and test it. Almost $7 each but thats without the nozzle body ($9.75 each). They definitely wouldnt be any good without that bit :)
Click to expand...
What about thee micron range? It's only rated at 31-40, or am I reading this wrong?
 
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