Tricks to swell in the last two weeks

patlpp

patlpp

New Member
acidking said:
Ripe is about $26 per gallon and is a complete nutrient solution at 20ml/gal, not an additive.
Overdrive is $118 gallon and a supplement to be used in conjunction with your other nutrients. Overdrive's 8ml is 40% of Ripe's 20ml if you take that gallon of Overdrive and multiply it x 40% to get how much the equivalent overdrive usage would cost compared to Ripe, it comes to $47, and that cost is on top of the other nutrients you need to be feeding your plants, because Overdrive isn't a complete nutrient system.
I just looked @ the NPK and assumed it was an additive! Does seem cheap.

I used to use AN's products but they were causing more problems than they were worth, especially since they aren't stable, nutrients falling out of solution is a big problem, and once they do, no amount of shaking is going to help. My brand new bottle of pH perfect Connoisseur B was so bad that it was like 2 ounces of Rock Candy at the bottom of the container, I even tried getting it back in suspension by mixing the crystalized nutrients it with water and Fulvic Acid in a blender, to no avail. I still have it, but I refuse to use it. If your nutrients can't stay suspended in solution then it screws up the amounts your plants are getting. Most of their additives ended up causing me major pH problems and promoting root rot that could only be solved by flushing the system and shocking with H2O2. They may work well for soil, but for Hydro I've found AN products to be a nightmare, there are better/cheaper nutrients out there. Botanicare's CNS17 is my favorite so far. I've tried the following Brands/Products - Ionic's - Grow/Bloom/Boost, General Hydroponic's - Flora series (and FloraNova), Advanced Nutrients - Sensi, Connoisseur, Bud Ignitor, Nirvana, Piranha, Sensizym, Tarantula, Botanicare's - CNS17, Liquid Karma, Cal-Mag, Humboldt Nutrients - Gravity, Hydrofarm's - Grow/Bloom dry nutrients, Hygrozyme - Hygrozyme, and Generic - Fulvic Acid, Silica and H2O2. From the list of nutrients, Advanced Nutrients was the worst performer and caused the most problems.
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I had the same trouble with an original Sensi grow part B,Big Bud and B-52. Rocky Road.
There seems to be so many mixed reviews of AN but I found the new line works well (sensi base ph perfect) not for the PH aspect, but for all the ingredients. I also saw marked improvement with Overdrive. However, I strictly grow soilless. Maybe that has something to do with it. I have never done a full grow with the old line.
I do use Botanicare Original Pure Blend as a sup in all my grows to feed the rhizo. Works great. copped a gallon for 15$ couldn't pass it up.

I am testing V&B now and so far I am very impressed. http://www.hydroponic-research.com/request.html You can request a 4 oz (dry) sample.
 
tip top toker

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
From what i have read, it degrades, it's kinda like the plant sunscreen. Could be wrong.

One other thought from me. For everyone who worries about silly little THC % drops, i kinda lump it in with the same argument as when people argue that when you smoke, you just see all that weed smoke drifting away and being wasted. I tend to think that you are either a fiend or grow far too little or of far too poor a quality. Scientific studies aside, who here has EVER noticed a perceptible difference in high between a plant that had Nitrogen over one that didn't, or a plant that had a dark period prior to harvest or didn't. I kind of see it like a raid 0 array in a computer, sure there is a statistical difference, but in eery day use, there is pretty much ZERO discernible difference.

It's a plant that we put in a piece of paper or glass and smoke or vap, we are not conducting a scientific experiment, stop trying to act like scientists where there is absolutely no need :) But then again that is the way cannabis growing seems to be going, pretending that it's a hard core science as opposed to simply understanding how to grow a plant. It really isn't difficult, but yet somehow we seem to have gotten to a stage where we try and make it as difficult as possible, largely because then companies can make shit loads of money selling you all the latest gadgets and toys. It's a plant, it is not difficult to grow. I grew the ame clone for 3 years doing this that and everything, it was always the same thing when i smoked it.
 
Systema

Systema

Active Member
acidking said:
Flushing may not help with the overall size, but it can help increase THC content, especially if you haven't cut way back on your nitrogen... at least according to a study published in the Journal of Industrial Hemp Production. They found that as nitrogen levels increased, THC levels decreased. Getting rid of excess Nitrogen in the soil, by flushing, and letting the plant use up it's nitrogen reserves can definitely help increase THC levels and improve smoke-ability.

The reason that it works for some people, and not for others, probably has to do with whether or not the grower has sufficiently cut back on nitrogen in their feeding program. Those who have will see little difference, those who haven't will notice a big difference.

High levels of Potassium have also been found to have a detrimental effect on THC levels, you don't want to cut it out completely, but it should be used in lower quantities than Phosphorus.

For people who grow hydroponically, and want to get away from flushing... I would suggest that the last 2 weeks you minimize nitrogen and cut back on the ratio of Potassium to Phosphorus, you still want to provide calcium though. My suggestion would be Botanicare's Hydroplex (0-10-6) supplemented with Cal-Mag (2-0-0), in this way you're reducing your levels of Potassium and minimizing Nitrogen, but not cutting them out completely. You can of course use any other Nutrient, or mix of nutrients, to arrive at around the same 1-5-3 ratio. Or if you want to cut out nitrogen entirely, supplement Hydroplex with just calcium.

As an added note, studies have shown that THC levels are highest in the morning and degrade throughout the day, which is why the extended dark periods before harvest have gained traction. Whether there is any benefit to adding extra days to a dark period, I don't know, but by harvesting after a dark period, or first thing in the morning, you will be harvesting at your plants peak THC time of day.
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Thanks man! thats really usefull!

Have a good one !
 
saintgraff

saintgraff

Member
I heard adding co2 to your grow room really helps bud swelling, something like hanging a pot with some water and dropping some dry ice or a co2 bottle, I've yet to try it but looks interesting and have heard it from friends it works!
 
J

jpill

Well-Known Member
saintgraff said:
I heard adding co2 to your grow room really helps bud swelling, something like hanging a pot with some water and dropping some dry ice or a co2 bottle, I've yet to try it but looks interesting and have heard it from friends it works!
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how do you hang a pot with some water and dropping some dry ice? I've never heard of this technique ?

I think i just found a new signature..
 
acidking

acidking

Well-Known Member
redfrogs said:
Plain old blackstrap mollases!
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If your growing in soil, sure... in hydro it just tends to create problems with no apparent gain. I've tried it 3 different times, and each time it sparked some sort of fungus/mold/bacterial growth that within 2 days quickly started spiking the pH to 8+, and refused to be controlled by pH down - I could add 6tbls to bring it down to 5.4, only to have it climb back above 7 within an hour. The only solution to get the pH back under control was to completely drain my 24 gallon reservoirs and run R/O water with 100ml of 29% H2O2 for 24 hours, drain it, then refill it with a 24 gallon nutrient mix and another 100ml of H2O2. Every Carb based Bloom enhancer I've ever tried has done exactly the same thing... allows fungus/mold/bacterial to gain a foothold in your hydroponic system, even when using fairly strong "maintenance" levels of H2O2.
 
I

indiapale

Member
There's no tricks to swell. It all comes from proper care from the beginning. With a good environment minimal care is required. A good environment is good lighting, good ventilation, proper temperature, etc...

As others have stated you want to maintain a healthy plant from start to finish. The idea of starving your plant of one nutrient or the other is a bad one. And flushing doesn't somehow "Clean" the plant of excess nutrients. Flushing only "Cleans" the growing medium from over application of nutient supplements. If you have to flush then you have probably created an environment in your growing medium that is not ideal for your plants. Flushing restores the medium to a more desired environment with regards to PH and levels of mineral salts.

I also would like to point out that almost all bloom boosters are nothing more than monopotassium phoshate which can be purchased for under $200 for 50 pounds or aquired in smaller amounts such as one pound for $10. Since it was already brought up in this thread I'll point out Hydroplex at 0-10-6, cut that in half and you have 0-25.5-17, and again 0-12.25-8.5. You can do the math. A pound of monopotassium phosphate will make quite a few liters for ten dollars or you can pay $20 for a liter of the same thing watered down in a nifty plastic bottle with a fancy label.

Not trying to sell this product but this is what I use and why. It's three part. Part A is the micronutrients 4-14-24, part B is calcium nitrate 17-0-0, part C is monopotassium phosphate. You use part A and B through veg. When you go to bloom you add part C but you don't cut back on A or B. Same amount of nitrogen as during veg just the P&K added by the monopotassium phoshate during bloom. Their feeding chart does show straight water for the last week although I have never noticed a difference.

The product I use is called VitaGrow and the reason I use it is because it's all you need. It's just repackaged mineral salts in quanties that are manageable and modestly marked up.

Feeding the plant is simple. Maintaining the proper environment should be the focus. Forget about the fancy labels and marketing hype. Keep the feeding simple and focus on the actual growing environment.
 
I

indiapale

Member
I realized I left out some information in my post. I didn't include the NPK value for monopotassium phosphate which is 0-51-34. Without that information the figures I gave would be meaningless unless you already knew what the NPK was for monopotassium phosphate and that the majority of bloom boosters are just watered down monopotassium phoshphate.

So I should have stated

"monopotassium phosphate which is 0-51-34, cut that in half and you have 0-25.5-17, and again 0-12.25-8.5. ".

Hydroplex is 0-10-6. The main ingredient according to thier label is potassium phosphate. From wikipedia:
Potassium phosphate is a generic term for the salts of potassium and phosphate ions including:

  • Monopotassium phosphate (KH[SUB]2[/SUB]PO[SUB]4[/SUB])
  • Dipotassium phosphate (K[SUB]2[/SUB]HPO[SUB]4[/SUB])
  • Tripotassium phosphate (K[SUB]3[/SUB]PO[SUB]4[/SUB])

That's all the detail I'm going to get into. But it's not rocket science. And you shouldn't even be worrying about some snake oil that is going to swell your buds in the last two weeks. Your buds should be looking good two weeks out. If not then you did something that can't be fixed in the last two weeks.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
indiapale said:
And you shouldn't even be worrying about some snake oil that is going to swell your buds in the last two weeks. Your buds should be looking good two weeks out. If not then you did something that can't be fixed in the last two weeks.
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Great point and I want to emphasize that bud production starts lonnnnnnnnnnnnng before that. Some folks are gonna get off the wrong foot beginning with germination by using a wet paper towel. You want to keep the plant happy, green, and healthy week by week.

Like I've said a million times, don't worry about the buds or snake oils. Focus ONLY on producing and maintaining as much healthy root mass and foliage until harvest.

UB
 
homebrewer

homebrewer

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Great point and I want to emphasize that bud production starts lonnnnnnnnnnnnng before that. Some folks are gonna get off the wrong foot beginning with germination by using a wet paper towel. You want to keep the plant happy, green, and healthy week by week.

Like I've said a million times, don't worry about the buds or snake oils. Focus ONLY on producing and maintaining as much healthy root mass and foliage until harvest.

UB
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Just out of curiosity, do you think there is something innately wrong with the 'paper towel method' or do you view it as an unnecessary step as one can sow seeds directly into the dirt?
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
homebrewer said:
Just out of curiosity, do you think there is something innately wrong with the 'paper towel method' or do you view it as an unnecessary step as one can sow seeds directly into the dirt?
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It's stupidly unnecessary. :) Following are archives I wrote on the subject -

Your seedlings will be alot better off if you germinate directly in soil - less handling and mechanical disturbance means less chance of physical damage to the plant's taproot (and roothairs) and less food reserves used to position itself due to the natural hormonal influence called Gravitropism. That translates into less food reserves used and increased seedling vigor, especially in the very early critical stages of seedling development.

This is my foolproof method for Cannabis Seed Germination in soil:

First, if harvesting seeds from my own crosses, I air-dry newly harvested seeds for a couple of weeks, and then store them in the refrigerator with a little rice. Cold-treatment seems to increase viability and germination rates, especially with indica-dom strains. I almost always get a 100% germination rate with quality seedstock.

Soak the seeds in plain water for 12 hours prior to planting to hydrate them, which will speed up germination. In general, good seeds will sink, bad seeds will remain floating (they contain air, not an embryo). I first sterilize seeds in a bleach solution (1 Tbsp. bleach/1 gallon of water) for 1/2 hour to kill any fungus residing on the seedcoat.

Sterilize enough *damp* fine soil with heat to germinate all of your seeds. You can do this by treating the damp soil to temps of (no more than) 200F for 20 mins in a conventional oven, or in a microwave oven on high for 2 minutes, while stirring a couple of times. Your goal is to get and hold the entire soil mix's temperature at 170F to 180F for about 20 minutes which can be monitored with a probe type thermometer. Let the mix cool thoroughly. This will insure that damp-off fungus spores have been killed in the soil mix. Make sure the soil mix is light and humusy (not real coarse). You can add a little sand or vermiculite to aid in drainage and weight.

Buy some white 20oz styrofoam "drinking glasses", commonly called "Styro-Cups", and punch holes in the bottom (and side bottom) for drainage. I use a red-hot ice pick for this. These containers are 6 1/2" tall and will allow ample room for the taproot to grow before cotyledon emergence which will increase your seedling's vigor. The taproot (radicle) is already at least 4" long at the point of emergence - don't restrict it (in order to maximize seedling growth rate). Styro-Cups can be found on the shelf displaying picnic items at your local grocery store.

Fill the pots almost to the top with your soil mix, water well to settle the mix, take a pencil and make a small hole about 1/4" to 1/2" deep, NO deeper, and drop *one* seed in. Cover the seed with *fine* soil, only enough to top up the hole, firm lightly with your finger, and lightly water until water runs freely thru the drain holes. Place in a warm spot around 80F/26C. Do NOT cover the cup with saran wrap or anything else. The seed has been hydrated from the soaking and will germinate soon. This container should not require further watering until the seedling is up and running.

During the first couple of days, mist the top soil surface lightly (if need be), never allowing the top to crust over, but not to the point that the medium stays waterlogged which will invite pythium rot (damp-off). "Less is more" at this point. Do NOT water this pot any more until the seedling is up, and only if it needs it at the point of emergence. Again, no need to cover with plastic wrap as the radicle (taproot) will grow at least 4" before the cotyledons emerge from the soil. IOW, even though you can't see it, the plant's root is seeking and finding moisture at the container's lower soil levels. I cannot emphasize this enough. The seedling will emerge anywhere from 2 to 10 days from the time you sowed it.

That's all to it! With good care, your faves will be ready to transplant within 1 to 2 weeks, and will easily slip out of the "cup" with a solid rootball that will never know it's been disturbed if potted up gently and quickly. Move up to a final pot of 3 to 5 gallons to sex and finish.

Take note regarding the immediate growth spurt after this transition!

Good luck,
Uncle Ben
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....more thoughts on the subject......

The dormancy of a seed is determined by a fight between auxins and anti-auxins. It is with the proper conditions (warmth, moisture, etc.) that the auxins finally "win" and break the plant out of its embryonic dormant state. Now, there are other hormonal responses involved such as gravitropism which play a part in all of this. IOW, the affect of gravity on certain plant parts - foliage responds in opposition to the pull, root tissue responds in favor of it. So, if you hydrate a seed which does nothing more than speed up the germ process, and just before the seedcoat cracks sow it, it then stands the best chance of orienting itself due to the pull of gravity and using stored reserves in the germplasm (cotyledons) for maximum vigor and health. A "healthy" plant is strong enough to overcome some issues that could ruin its survival such as damp-off, caused by pythium and such.

It's a no-brainer, you don't check or fool with anything, you just soak the seed for about 12 hours until it sinks, sow it, and you're done. If it doesn't sink within 12 hours, you have an air pocket in place of a viable embryo. You probably don't want to take this chance with your treasured seed stock but you can apply pressure between your index finger and thumb on a seed and if it doesn't easily crush/collapse, then chances are almost 100% that it has an embryo, just waiting to pop out in all of its glory.
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S

smokinsomeweed

Well-Known Member
dry ice is basicaaly carbon monoxide and when it mixes with water theres a reaction it techniqly would work might as well try and get a co2 tank somewhere i started out with 1 teaspoon per gallon organic molasses moved up to 5 teaspoons everyfour days it got caked with crystals quick only used that and molasses i would recomend it View attachment 2349559View attachment 2349560
 
S

smokinsomeweed

Well-Known Member
how much longer you guys think this will be i live 2 and a half hours away from my grow so im gonna guess when to go back lol but i heard there a week window before tricomes degrad im thinking 2 and a half weeks left hopefully sooner i had another done ill post pics on my thread in a while if interested
 
V

VonNonymous

Member
Uncle Ben said:
Great point and I want to emphasize that bud production starts lonnnnnnnnnnnnng before that. Some folks are gonna get off the wrong foot beginning with germination by using a wet paper towel. You want to keep the plant happy, green, and healthy week by week.

Like I've said a million times, don't worry about the buds or snake oils. Focus ONLY on producing and maintaining as much healthy root mass and foliage until harvest.

UB
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I think I just found out the hard way that the super bud fattening claims are overhyped. My stuff went from healthy looking and rapidly growing to deficient looking and slow growing after using some. It sure looks like cause and effect to me. Not sure which threw me the whammy, but I deviated from my normal methods, and wish I hadn't. Hopefully there's enough time left this season for them to snap out of it.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
VonNonymous said:
I think I just found out the hard way that the super bud fattening claims are overhyped. My stuff went from healthy looking and rapidly growing to deficient looking and slow growing after using some. It sure looks like cause and effect to me. Not sure which threw me the whammy, but I deviated from my normal methods, and wish I hadn't. Hopefully there's enough time left this season for them to snap out of it.
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It should be a no-brainer - the ONLY thing that is "super bud fattening" is a lot of healthy green leaves until harvest. Live and learn....
 
I

indiapale

Member
The key is to get them happy in veg and keep them happy in flower. It's that simple. Micronutrients and calcium nitrate for veg. Add monopotassium phosphate during the flower stage. Soil, Coco, Hydro, done. Simple, cheap, proven.
 
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