Too much LED light?

The room is 16.9 feet long and 10 ft 6 inches wide with a ceiling of 7' 3 inches. About 12 feet long of flood trays - 4 feet wide with a 16" walkway in the middle. The back of the room has about 4 feet for CO2 machine and dehumidifier - empty area.

The space was very productive using HPS. The downside is power and heat. HPS also means you lose at a foot to 10 inches on the ceiling due to HPS fixture. My friend has migrated LED in and HPS out. It is down to 5 LED and 1 HPS.

The LEDs are 3 - 600-HLG QB boards, 1 Crecer PanthrX, 1 Spider Farmer SF-4000 and 1 1000 watt Hydrofarm HPS with digital ballast.


HLG QB
This DIY kit will easily replace any 1000 Watt HID using only 620 Watts of power producing a massive 1540 PPF total output!
Crecer
Full spectrum white light output with high-efficiency output up to 2.5 umol/J
Spider Farmer claims:
High Energy Efficiency with 2.7 umol/J, only consuming 456 watt, Veg footprint is 6 x 6 ft, Flowering footprint is 5 x 5 ft. 1212 LEDs

Crecer and Spider Farmer claim they can flower 5x5

The room rocked with 6 x 1000 watt HPS. It could pull 3 lb a light. My mate now says he thinks the colas are getting smaller and getting light burned. I told him 24". He may be closer to 20" or even 18" from the lights. The LEDs are flush to the ceiling.

There are three lights over the 12 x 4 on one side with the 18" walkway in the middle and another 12 x 4 on the other side.

He claims to have a light meter and thinks the lights may be too bright. He used to drip 5 to 6 times a night in Tupur which worked great in the past but he changes sh*t up and hand waters. I told him a billion times you cannot over water tupur.

Are the plants getting too much light?

He said he was pretty good with 3 HLG QB's 600-H with 3 HPS. He thinks things started dropping off when he added the PanthrX - so 4 LED and 2 HPS then added the Spider Farmer and just 1 HPS.

Colo MMJ said:

The room is 16.9 feet long and 10 ft 6 inches wide with a ceiling of 7' 3 inches. About 12 feet long of flood trays - 4 feet wide with a 16" walkway in the middle. The back of the room has about 4 feet for CO2 machine and dehumidifier - empty area.

The space was very productive using HPS. The downside is power and heat. HPS also means you lose at a foot to 10 inches on the ceiling due to HPS fixture. My friend has migrated LED in and HPS out. It is down to 5 LED and 1 HPS.

The LEDs are 3 - 600-HLG QB boards, 1 Crecer PanthrX, 1 Spider Farmer SF-4000 and 1 1000 watt Hydrofarm HPS with digital ballast.

Horticulture Lighting Group HLG-600H Quantum Board LED Kit V2 Rspec

New Rspec Quantum Boards Available for Enhanced Flowering and General Use or Bspec for Primary Veg. Ready to Assemble 620 Watt Quantum Board LED Kits V2. The 600H Will Easily Replace Any 1000 Watt HID Using Only 620 Watts of Power Producing a Monstrous 1500+ PPF!

growerslights.com

PanthrX II

Full-spectrum 600 Watt LED grow lights specially designed for indoor use. Industrial leading PPF output and energy efficient. PanthrX II LED grow light is a more efficient and powerful light source for sustainable agriculture PanthrX II LED replace 1000W HPS or MH traditional lights and uses the...

www.crecerlighting.com

Amazon.com : Spider Farmer SF-4000 LED Grow Light, with Samsung Chips & Dimmable Mean Well Driver, Full Spectrum 3000K 5000K 660nm 760nm IR for Indoor Plants (1212pcs LEDs) : Garden & Outdoor

Amazon.com : Spider Farmer SF-4000 LED Grow Light, with Samsung Chips & Dimmable Mean Well Driver, Full Spectrum 3000K 5000K 660nm 760nm IR for Indoor Plants (1212pcs LEDs) : Garden & Outdoor

www.amazon.com

HLG QB
This DIY kit will easily replace any 1000 Watt HID using only 620 Watts of power producing a massive 1540 PPF total output!
Crecer
Full spectrum white light output with high-efficiency output up to 2.5 umol/J
Spider Farmer claims:
High Energy Efficiency with 2.7 umol/J, only consuming 456 watt, Veg footprint is 6 x 6 ft, Flowering footprint is 5 x 5 ft. 1212 LEDs

Crecer and Spider Farmer claim they can flower 5x5

The room rocked with 6 x 1000 watt HPS. It could pull 3 lb a light. My mate now says he thinks the colas are getting smaller and getting light burned. I told him 24". He may be closer to 20" or even 18" from the lights. The LEDs are flush to the ceiling.

There are three lights over the 12 x 4 on one side with the 18" walkway in the middle and another 12 x 4 on the other side.

He claims to have a light meter and thinks the lights may be too bright. He used to drip 5 to 6 times a night in Tupur which worked great in the past but he changes sh*t up and hand waters. I told him a billion times you cannot over water tupur.

Are the plants getting too much light?

Click to expand...

What readings is he getting with light meter?
If my calculations are correct with 3 x hlg 600s = 1860 watts ÷ 48 sq ft = 38.75 watts per sq ft.
30 - 40 watts per sq ft for good leds is all that's required so you are in the sweet spot I'd say.
I was just talking to a mate earlier who was having a similar problem, shitty yields, small buds after swapping out an
600 hps, a platinum p600 and a budmaster for 2 hlg550s. He's vegging at moment so he got a loan of the par meter and found he was blasting them with too much light. 1200 umols for veg! Lol probably 1500 umols in flower, without co2.

Here's a 1000 Watt hps par map at 22" away for a guide

Spider Farmer sf 4000 par map

Panther x par chart below in PDF

I've another mate runs the Hlgs with co2 and he gives his canopy ~ 1500 umols on the par meter.

Moflow said:

What readings is he getting with light meter?
If my calculations are correct with 3 x hlg 600s = 1860 watts ÷ 48 sq ft = 38.75 watts per sq ft.
30 - 40 watts per sq ft for good leds is all that's required so you are in the sweet spot I'd say.
I was just talking to a mate earlier who was having a similar problem, shitty yields, small buds after swapping out an
600 hps, a platinum p600 and a budmaster for 2 hlg550s. He's vegging at moment so he got a loan of the par meter and found he was blasting them with too much light. 1200 umols for veg! Lol probably 1500 umols in flower, without co2.

Here's a 1000 Watt hps par map at 22" away for a guide
View attachment 4496070
Spider Farmer sf 4000 par map
View attachment 4496072
Panther x par chart below in PDF

I've another mate runs the Hlgs with co2 and he gives his canopy ~ 1500 umols on the par meter.

Click to expand...

Great stuff. I will try to get light readings. In veg - I would definitely be a bit more gentle on the lights. T8's work great and you probably can get LED garage lights in rows. They are about $20 each. I think they put out 5500 lumens.

Will the plants be more tolerant with CO2 supplementation? In the past - he was using a propane CO2 burner but he has not been spending the money anymore. I think he was fine when he was running 3 Hydrofarm HPS mixed in with 3 HLG 600-H QB's. It seems like the QBs would stretch less.

In HPS defense - they seem to work as well as LED but the heat and power issues. Well in reality the 6 HPS in yield have done much better than LEDs. I wonder if HPS provide some thermal heat to the plants that mimics the sun where LED does not provide that.

I think I may tell him for one row of the three to put a smaller 100 watt HLG in the middle. So try 4 big LEDs (Crecer PanthrX, SpiderFarmer & 2 QBs) and 2 smaller LEDs in the middle.

What are the air temp now he has these LEDs?
Is he growing all photoperiods?

coreywebster said:

What are the air temp now he has these LEDs?
Is he growing all photoperiods?

Click to expand...

I think we have a winner. His place is in Colorado. He said he was around 63 to 70 F. I said it is way too cold. I have helped run this room a few years ago with HOS and kept it about 80 to 82 deg F.

Daytime about 65 F with lights off.

Colo MMJ said:

Great stuff. I will try to get light readings. In veg - I would definitely be a bit more gentle on the lights. T8's work great and you probably can get LED garage lights in rows. They are about $20 each. I think they put out 5500 lumens.

Will the plants be more tolerant with CO2 supplementation? In the past - he was using a propane CO2 burner but he has not been spending the money anymore. I think he was fine when he was running 3 Hydrofarm HPS mixed in with 3 HLG 600-H QB's. It seems like the QBs would stretch less.

In HPS defense - they seem to work as well as LED but the heat and power issues. Well in reality the 6 HPS in yield have done much better than LEDs. I wonder if HPS provide some thermal heat to the plants that mimics the sun where LED does not provide that.

I think I may tell him for one row of the three to put a smaller 100 watt HLG in the middle. So try 4 big LEDs (Crecer PanthrX, SpiderFarmer & 2 QBs) and 2 smaller LEDs in the middle.

Click to expand...

Just curious, why did you get x4 different lights all with the same HE spectrum? No Horticultural spectral led Fixture there to compare bag appeal, growth traits & finishing time to name a few?
Also, some Color would spruce up that Hps which i would put High-Up, in the middle so it can provide the much needed or desired IR around the room as those led lights contain none.
But seeing how there is dead space you could eliminate the hps.
Couple 730nm strips would replace it.

I recommend dimmable fans (hyperfan style) on the carbon filter so if it gets too cold in winter you can turn fan power down as low as 6W to keep more of the heat in the room and still keep negative pressure to keep the smell routed through the carbon filter. Also using a high mounted circulation fan to make sure the hottest air is mixing instead of staying at the top of the room. Despite that I still ran through some pretty cold temps this winter. It makes extra sticky extra stinky buds but less weight on the scale.

SupraSPL said:

I recommend dimmable fans (hyperfan style) on the carbon filter so if it gets too cold in winter you can turn fan power down as low as 6W to keep more of the heat in the room and still keep negative pressure to keep the smell routed through the carbon filter. Also using a high mounted circulation fan to make sure the hottest air is mixing instead of staying at the top of the room. Despite that I still ran through some pretty cold temps this winter. It makes extra sticky extra stinky buds but less weight on the scale.

Click to expand...

The Supra? Welcome back.

hybridway2 said:

Just curious, why did you get x4 different lights all with the same HE spectrum? No Horticultural spectral led Fixture there to compare bag appeal, growth traits & finishing time to name a few?
Also, some Color would spruce up that Hps which i would put High-Up, in the middle so it can provide the much needed or desired IR around the room as those led lights contain none.
But seeing how there is dead space you could eliminate the hps.
Couple 730nm strips would replace it.

Click to expand...

Love the QB's but these others claimed to do 5x5 coverage. This is why he wanted to test others. I help him out.
I thought the Crecer PanthrX had red diodes. My friend wanted to try it out. It seems to have some red spectrum. He and I really like QB's but the PanthrX and Spider Farmer were more 5x5. Spider Farmer also has red diodes mixed in. Any suggestions on 730 nm strips?

Keeping one HPS in that room may be the way to go at least in the winter. He has a huge XXXL reflector. The thing is giant. He could put that up versus smaller Hydrofarm.

Colo MMJ said:

Love the QB's but these others claimed to do 5x5 coverage. This is why he wanted to test others. I help him out.
I thought the Crecer PanthrX had red diodes. My friend wanted to try it out. It seems to have some red spectrum. He and I really like QB's but the PanthrX and Spider Farmer were more 5x5. Spider Farmer also has red diodes mixed in. Any suggestions on 730 nm strips?

Keeping one HPS in that room may be the way to go at least in the winter. He has a huge XXXL reflector. The thing is giant. He could put that up versus smaller Hydrofarm.

Click to expand...

Yea, get the temps up with an extra hps or two.
Or 850nm infrared diodes for that hps spike lol

Colo MMJ said:

Love the QB's but these others claimed to do 5x5 coverage. This is why he wanted to test others. I help him out.
I thought the Crecer PanthrX had red diodes. My friend wanted to try it out. It seems to have some red spectrum. He and I really like QB's but the PanthrX and Spider Farmer were more 5x5. Spider Farmer also has red diodes mixed in. Any suggestions on 730 nm strips?

Keeping one HPS in that room may be the way to go at least in the winter. He has a huge XXXL reflector. The thing is giant. He could put that up versus smaller Hydrofarm.

Click to expand...

I know , they all have 660nm reds included to a white. SF says it includes 760nm IR but i dont see it in the board or on the spectral graph. Not enough anyways.
HLG sells QB-3's, lil ir sticks with power supplies.
Was your previous HPS vented?
Youll need a good 24-32" on a QB-550 (480W). SF have miew spread diodes but i wouldn't imagine you can get to close with them eirher. Bars & Strips allow for close proximity. QB's & most knock-offs needs a lil more distance to prevent light stress.
600-1000w bulb in a Parabolic hood should throw some IR.

hybridway2 said:

I know , they all have 660nm reds included to a white. SF says it includes 760nm IR but i dont see it in the board or on the spectral graph. Not enough anyways.
HLG sells QB-3's, lil ir sticks with power supplies.
Was your previous HPS vented?
Youll need a good 24-32" on a QB-550 (480W). SF have miew spread diodes but i wouldn't imagine you can get to close with them eirher. Bars & Strips allow for close proximity. QB's & most knock-offs needs a lil more distance to prevent light stress.
600-1000w bulb in a Parabolic hood should throw some IR.

Click to expand...

Thanks. I remember a few years ago that a guy in Colorado swore by parabolic/umbrella hood for great light dispersion.

The previous HPS were vented. I helped him do the hoses but he never setup ducting. In the winter he could keep the temp right but in the summer the HPS got hot. The elevation was 7600 feet so at night it would cool off but in the summer it was a challenge.

What is the right temp for a room in flower? I know you can get a laser to check leaf temps plus the a room temp gauge to check overall room temp.
I am thinking about 82 Deg F. I know if you get too hot - it seems like spider mites go crazy. He is pretty good at staying on top of any bugs.

Moflow said:

Yea, get the temps up with an extra hps or two.
Or 850nm infrared diodes for that hps spike lol

Click to expand...

That quote brought me to a theory that should make sense?
Seams like many feel that raising room temps/ambient is what has helped.
I think if we add IR diodes, they will excite the leaf molecules to bounce off each other, creating friction. In turn heating up the leaf w/o getting to uncomfortable room temps., healthier plants.
One step closer to defeating LedDefficiency or the micro problems that go with it.
Personally, im IR'ng up might add a little Vit. D.

hybridway2 said:

That quote brought me to a theory that should make sense?
Seams like many feel that raising room temps/ambient is what has helped.
I think if we add IR diodes, they will excite the leaf molecules to bounce off each other, creating friction. In turn heating up the leaf w/o getting to uncomfortable room temps., healthier plants.
One step closer to defeating LedDefficiency or the micro problems that go with it.
Personally, im IR'ng up might add a little Vit. D.

Click to expand...

I have been thinking about this for quite a while.
I grow in cooler conditions. So I'd need more red lights than the redliight district in Amsterdam to generate enough heat
There's 850nm 950nm I think they could be useful instead of a bulky heater.
I was looking at ir tubes the other day but the smallest was 200 watts. Commercial heaters I think they were.
Maybe put it on a thermostat to cut out if it got too warm.
There's also 3 watt ones, good ones 3and the Chinese 10w 20w 30w 50w 100w mil type square ones from the dark ages lol
I have always said if a manufacturer was mad enough to build an led fixture with the spectrum of an HPS I would gladly try one for free. And while they're about it a sunshine spectrum as well lol

Moflow said:

I have been thinking about this for quite a while.
I grow in cooler conditions. So I'd need more red lights than the redliight district in Amsterdam to generate enough heat
There's 850nm 950nm I think they could be useful instead of a bulky heater.
I was looking at ir tubes the other day but the smallest was 200 watts. Commercial heaters I think they were.
Maybe put it on a thermostat to cut out if it got too warm.
There's also 3 watt ones, good ones 3and the Chinese 10w 20w 30w 50w 100w mil type square ones from the dark ages lol
I have always said if a manufacturer was mad enough to build an led fixture with the spectrum of an HPS I would gladly try one for free. And while they're about it a sunshine spectrum as well lol

Click to expand...

Someone that get's it. Mad props bro

Moflow said:

I have been thinking about this for quite a while.
I grow in cooler conditions. So I'd need more red lights than the redliight district in Amsterdam to generate enough heat
There's 850nm 950nm I think they could be useful instead of a bulky heater.
I was looking at ir tubes the other day but the smallest was 200 watts. Commercial heaters I think they were.
Maybe put it on a thermostat to cut out if it got too warm.
There's also 3 watt ones, good ones 3and the Chinese 10w 20w 30w 50w 100w mil type square ones from the dark ages lol
I have always said if a manufacturer was mad enough to build an led fixture with the spectrum of an HPS I would gladly try one for free. And while they're about it a sunshine spectrum as well lol

Click to expand...

This i the DE spectrum w/o the IR. I don't like it much.
As for heating up the leaf using color, 730 gets it goin. I too wonder if a 760ish might be good but hiw do you make anything over 740 in led & still see it?

hybridway2 said:

This i the DE spectrum w/o the IR. I don't like it much.View attachment 4498678
As for heating up the leaf using color, 730 gets it goin. I too wonder if a 760ish might be good but hiw do you make anything over 740 in led & still see it?

Click to expand...

You need the ir
I'd imagine you'd need to watch your red far red ratio with 730nm 760nm for stretching but maybe not with ir.
You could 'see' it with special glasses or a multimeter would tell you or a kilowatt meter, feel the heat

Any low cost 660-770nm small lights? I used to know all the web site retailers to check.

Moflow said:

You need the ir

Click to expand...

This is why, the white LED/ CMH combination, is creating the environment for the fantastic results, in my rooms.