TLO Methods 'n' timed watering!~ Advice

Vumar · Aug 28, 2015

Just let me say this is not my first grow but will be my first attempt at a timed soil grow. I normally run RDWC hydro but have slowly been experimenting with organic soil (watering each by hand) after reading True Living Organics by The Rev. This is my attempt to go for a serious soil grow start to finish. I got lazy (actually just poor) on my last 2 soil grows and wasn't able to buy a filter for R/O, enough gallons of distilled to be worth it, or collect enough rain water in time so I used tap water and destroyed my microbes! But luckily this time around money isn't too much of a concern~ The idea of this experiment is to find the best way to water multiple plants with as much as an even adjustable flow as possible.

I have 2 plastic kiddie pools for overflow protection, a bunch of smaller containers that go inside the water pools, a reservoir with an air pump and stones, a water pump, a Y split for the water pump, and two multi-splitters (6 splits per unit, so 12 total), and the tubing to connect everything. Now my last and most important part is figuring out what type of drippers to use. The plants in the pictures are just visual examples for some flare! The water pump will be controlled by an outlet timer and there are small flow adjustments per line on the water manifold so I have some addition control there as well.

I've done a little homework on the topic but thought maybe the RIU community could help a hydro grower out with some soil ; P Just throwing the tubing into the container with a weight on it won't work for me. I need something that will evenly water and not clog often. Most importantly, anyone friendly enough to share some experience with what drippers they have used, what works best, and what to stay away from! Offering hydro advice and appreciation in return! Thank you guys'n'gals~~

whitey78 · Aug 28, 2015

I like the idea... But I can't do it, (rely heavier than I do already on timers etc...) they make drippers that you push down into the soil and hook the 1/4 or 3/16 tubing whatever it is.... after timing out how long it takes to pump out the amount of water you wanna pump out through the drippers/pumps/splitters... My 10 gallon pots 3/4 of the way full of organic soil when they're about big enough to be flowered, will take anywhere from 1 to 1.5 gallons of water every 3 days or so... Halfway through 12/12 they pull the same 1-1.5 gallons in 1-1.5 days...

It's not like dro where the medium is water or completely soaked in water 100% of the time... There's a balance that needs to be found between wet n too wet... I tried finding the drippers I have online somewhere but I can't find them, that's not saying I use the ones I have or have any experience with automated watering, but I did start prepping for it at one point but never got around to it... But a search of drip emitters will get you somewhere...

Richard Drysift · Aug 28, 2015

I'm not sure about your drip system; I've never used one like it but I have seen organic growers who are using systems like the Tropf blumat which works like a hydro spike: it leaches water from a reservior onto your plants but does it with no pumps or timers; it's passive hydration that's gravity fed but won't overwater them. It supposedly senses when soil gets dry & keeps the medium moist but not soaked. It was prohibitively expensive for my needs but looks like it would work. Alternatively I just wrapped my smart pots with garbage bags & then watered the shit out of them....left for 5 days vacation: they were not wilted when I got back. Anyways good luck here's a link if that helps at all:
http://www.amazon.com/Tropf-Blumat-Patio-Deck-Kit/dp/B008PXHY3A

Richard Drysift · Aug 28, 2015

Oh and congratulations on learning about TLO. I used to do hydro too but TLO is much easier, cheaper, and you'll get way better tasting bud without bothering with ph or flushing- good luck happy growing

Vumar · Aug 28, 2015

whitey78 said:
I like the idea... But I can't do it, (rely heavier than I do already on timers etc...) they make drippers that you push down into the soil and hook the 1/4 or 3/16 tubing whatever it is.... after timing out how long it takes to pump out the amount of water you wanna pump out through the drippers/pumps/splitters... My 10 gallon pots 3/4 of the way full of organic soil when they're about big enough to be flowered, will take anywhere from 1 to 1.5 gallons of water every 3 days or so... Halfway through 12/12 they pull the same 1-1.5 gallons in 1-1.5 days...

It's not like dro where the medium is water or completely soaked in water 100% of the time... There's a balance that needs to be found between wet n too wet... I tried finding the drippers I have online somewhere but I can't find them, that's not saying I use the ones I have or have any experience with automated watering, but I did start prepping for it at one point but never got around to it... But a search of drip emitters will get you somewhere...

Yeah I have the math all done out. It should work I just want links to those stake drippers and the ones that dont clog honestly. IF they work. Anyone have good results with other stuff?

green_machine_two9er · Aug 29, 2015

Vumar said:
Yeah I have the math all done out. It should work I just want links to those stake drippers and the ones that dont clog honestly. IF they work. Anyone have good results with other stuff?

Yes. Hand watering when their thirsty. Good airation and compost for retention. Good mulch or top dress to keep soil moist never dry and never saturated. .
I get away with 2 qrts/5 gallon pots 2x weekly. Than one of those waterings will be an aact. And the following week one nutrient solution with kelp, alfalfa. Some sort of calmg if you are ro ing water.
So , plain water. Compost tea. Plain water. Nutrient solution. 2 gallons on water / 2weeks! Now. I'm in a basement. And never gets to hot.
I will be hand water guy to the end. Just feel being down there. Feeling what the ladies need will be more beneficial.

green_machine_two9er · Aug 29, 2015

Vumar said:
Just let me say this is not my first grow but will be my first attempt at a timed soil grow. I normally run RDWC hydro but have slowly been experimenting with organic soil (watering each by hand) after reading True Living Organics by The Rev. This is my attempt to go for a serious soil grow start to finish. I got lazy (actually just poor) on my last 2 soil grows and wasn't able to buy a filter for R/O, enough gallons of distilled to be worth it, or collect enough rain water in time so I used tap water and destroyed my microbes! But luckily this time around money isn't too much of a concern~ The idea of this experiment is to find the best way to water multiple plants with as much as an even adjustable flow as possible.

I have 2 plastic kiddie pools for overflow protection, a bunch of smaller containers that go inside the water pools, a reservoir with an air pump and stones, a water pump, a Y split for the water pump, and two multi-splitters (6 splits per unit, so 12 total), and the tubing to connect everything. Now my last and most important part is figuring out what type of drippers to use. The plants in the pictures are just visual examples for some flare! The water pump will be controlled by an outlet timer and there are small flow adjustments per line on the water manifold so I have some addition control there as well.

I've done a little homework on the topic but thought maybe the RIU community could help a hydro grower out with some soil ; P Just throwing the tubing into the container with a weight on it won't work for me. I need something that will evenly water and not clog often. Most importantly, anyone friendly enough to share some experience with what drippers they have used, what works best, and what to stay away from! Offering hydro advice and appreciation in return! Thank you guys'n'gals~~

View attachment 3488306

Also. There is much debate on this but tap water I not the worst thing that could happen to a soil grow. Just need to let it sit out to reduce clorine levels. If its not super hard water than I would skip the filter altogether. ! I know that sounds crazy. I'm an ex chemicle grower and my ro filter been collecting dust for years now. I've even heard that ro water is changed on a molecular level, something with the charge it holds. And is not better for soil
Also are you phing water? I know most hydro growers have problems puttin down the ph meter after switching to soil. An ph up or down products.will be more detrimental to soil biology than plain tap water.

whitey78 · Aug 29, 2015

These are the stake drippers I was talking about....something like these anyhow... Different lengths, hose angles, flow rates, all kinda shite... But honestly he above guys are right bro, TLO and other water only methods are meant to be easy... Organically grown mi plants are a funny thing... It seems the more time you "spend tending to them" (aposed to tampering with unnecessarily with cuz we think we know better) the better they come out... I don't know.... those who also "don't know what I mean" know what I'm talking about... I'm baked don't mind me...

http://www.zenhydro.com/hydro-flow-dripper-stake-w-basket-blue-10-bag.html?utm_source=google_shopping&ne_ppc_id=1988&ne_key_id=31820598&gclid=CJeEy-2-z8cCFQwYHwodJ34Jdg

Vumar · Aug 29, 2015

green_machine_two9er said:
Also. There is much debate on this but tap water I not the worst thing that could happen to a soil grow. Just need to let it sit out to reduce clorine levels. If its not super hard water than I would skip the filter altogether. ! I know that sounds crazy. I'm an ex chemicle grower and my ro filter been collecting dust for years now. I've even heard that ro water is changed on a molecular level, something with the charge it holds. And is not better for soil
Also are you phing water? I know most hydro growers have problems puttin down the ph meter after switching to soil. An ph up or down products.will be more detrimental to soil biology than plain tap water.

I don't use my hydro solutions/products on my organic soils. My PH down (rarely needed) is grape juice while my PH up is either lemon or lime juice. I don't use RO water because I don't like the waste ratios. So..... I have a KDF-material filter (Boogie Blue Water Filter) and it removes chloramines, chlorine, mercury, fluoride, and other stuff that harms biological matter however it doesn't filter any dissolved solids. Also to prevent fungus gnats I have a thick layer of hydroton on top of my soil to keep things bone dry so they can't survive in this environment. The hydroton also evenly disperses the water as its being poured over the top (gaining additional Dissolved Oxygen!~) down to the actual soil.

green_machine_two9er · Aug 30, 2015

Sounds

Vumar said:
I don't use my hydro solutions/products on my organic soils. My PH down (rarely needed) is grape juice while my PH up is either lemon or lime juice. I don't use RO water because I don't like the waste ratios. So..... I have a KDF-material filter (Boogie Blue Water Filter) and it removes chloramines, chlorine, mercury, fluoride, and other stuff that harms biological matter however it doesn't filter any dissolved solids. Also to prevent fungus gnats I have a thick layer of hydroton on top of my soil to keep things bone dry so they can't survive in this environment. The hydroton also evenly disperses the water as its being poured over the top (gaining additional Dissolved Oxygen!~) down to the actual soil.

sounds pretty good although I would think Ewc would be better than hydro ton. I also like to incorporate crab shell, DE, and neem seed meal. All have great anti pest properties in organics though ph of water is no super important. We buffer out soil with oyster shell. Gypsum. Biochar ec. To buffer ph from soil building. Although lemon and grape juice is better than chems still most likely unnecessary.

green_machine_two9er · Aug 30, 2015

green_machine_two9er said:
Sounds

sounds pretty good although I would think Ewc would be better than hydro ton. I also like to incorporate crab shell, DE, and neem seed meal. All have great anti pest properties in organics though ph of water is no super important. We buffer out soil with oyster shell. Gypsum. Biochar ec. To buffer ph from soil building. Although lemon and grape juice is better than chems still most likely unnecessary.

I guess I should go into more why ph is irrelevant in living soil. Of course ph matters. But not of your water. Ph ing when using chemical fertilizer is only to make the nutrients available for uptake by the girls. Organic soil built correctly feeds the plant by your micro herd breaking down nutrients and makes avail. Basically when plant, roots and soil microbes are working symbiotically the system as a whole will release nutrients as needed. And ph of water going in is irrelevant.

whitey78 said:
These are the stake drippers I was talking about....something like these anyhow... Different lengths, hose angles, flow rates, all kinda shite... But honestly he above guys are right bro, TLO and other water only methods are meant to be easy... Organically grown mi plants are a funny thing... It seems the more time you "spend tending to them" (aposed to tampering with unnecessarily with cuz we think we know better) the better they come out... I don't know.... those who also "don't know what I mean" know what I'm talking about... I'm baked don't mind me...
I think I get ya. Lol. The more we as growers get out of the way the better! Just hang out with me, listen to them, bit of water here and there and ez pz. Chronic ass organic goodness. Soil is about preparation. Planning and being organized ahead of time. Once t hose ladies are going in a properly lit and climate controlled environment, just get out of the way and be amaZed!

http://www.zenhydro.com/hydro-flow-dripper-stake-w-basket-blue-10-bag.html?utm_source=google_shopping&ne_ppc_id=1988&ne_key_id=31820598&gclid=CJeEy-2-z8cCFQwYHwodJ34Jdg

whitey78 · Aug 30, 2015

If your using the revs 2.whatever mix or his recycled mixes, or something close that includes dolomite lime in 2 forms as the revs mix suggests, your ph will be fine... No need to ph your water as mentioned above.... I use an RO filter with a basic sediment filter as a pre filter for it to increase the life of the RO unit but also my RO unit has a permeation pump which adds back 30 or so ppm of ca/mg.... They are wasters though... I do agree with that statement but at least I bought one with the better filtered water to discharge ratio than most but I like knowing what's in my water... In most cases the 30 or so ppm of ca/mg isn't enough cal mag for my ladies so I still end up adding general organics ca/mg with most waterings.... But if you have city water with a ppm of 100 or less, you should be ok just bubbling it... But well water can as I'm sure you as a hydro grower know can be a nightmare no matter what the ppm....

Also for pest prevention I use nematodes that I get from planetnatural.com and mix some in my soil when I make it and when I build the pots I'll toss a 1/4tsp of it in each pot or so... You don't need a lot... Any and all bagged soil you buy will come laced with thrips, fungus gnats and anything else it could possibly pick up enroute to your hydro store as well as whatever bugs are in the half dead plants most hydro stores have growing most times... But it's another reason why I recycle my soil besides the fact that it gets better the over time... The nematodes stay with the soil and any new soil you add to the mix also gets treated as it makes its way into the soil rotation... But good compost and good castings also assist in pest prevention...

green_machine_two9er · Aug 30, 2015

whitey78 said:
If your using the revs 2.whatever mix or his recycled mixes, or something close that includes dolomite lime in 2 forms as the revs mix suggests, your ph will be fine... No need to ph your water as mentioned above.... I use an RO filter with a basic sediment filter as a pre filter for it to increase the life of the RO unit but also my RO unit has a permeation pump which adds back 30 or so ppm of ca/mg.... They are wasters though... I do agree with that statement but at least I bought one with the better filtered water to discharge ratio than most but I like knowing what's in my water... In most cases the 30 or so ppm of ca/mg isn't enough cal mag for my ladies so I still end up adding general organics ca/mg with most waterings.... But if you have city water with a ppm of 100 or less, you should be ok just bubbling it... But well water can as I'm sure you as a hydro grower know can be a nightmare no matter what the ppm....

Also for pest prevention I use nematodes that I get from planetnatural.com and mix some in my soil when I make it and when I build the pots I'll toss a 1/4tsp of it in each pot or so... You don't need a lot... Any and all bagged soil you buy will come laced with thrips, fungus gnats and anything else it could possibly pick up enroute to your hydro store as well as whatever bugs are in the half dead plants most hydro stores have growing most times... But it's another reason why I recycle my soil besides the fact that it gets better the over time... The nematodes stay with the soil and any new soil you add to the mix also gets treated as it makes its way into the soil rotation... But good compost and good castings also assist in pest prevention...

Good stuff. My weLL COMES OUT at 225-250. That is still ok for me.
About pest. One thing as soil growers we should all remember that the plant has natural pest resistance built into the genetic code. A happy healthy soil grown plant will automatically fight those buggies. Nematodes are great to, for gnats. But I've quite using them, as most good ewc sources are already gunna have bene nematodes. This is my top dress recipe. 1 qrt per light, 1 qrt coco coir, 2 tbsp each , neem, crab, diatomacues earth, and bio tone 3-4-4. When this is all mixed I add about the same volume of ewc. I haven't seen any bug in over six months. Not even one gnat!

whitey78 · Aug 30, 2015

I use the chunky/shredded coir myself as covering instead of bark mulch seeing I just can't find bark mulch that's not tainted with coloring or the right kind so I just started buying all shades of coir and it's been pretty good so far... Nice when you recycle it too as it aides in aeration and it breaks down into p or k... Cant remember atm.... Sunday wake n bake got me sofa-king-we-Todd-did....

green_machine_two9er · Aug 30, 2015

whitey78 said:
I use the chunky/shredded coir myself as covering instead of bark mulch seeing I just can't find bark mulch that's not tainted with coloring or the right kind so I just started buying all shades of coir and it's been pretty good so far... Nice when you recycle it too as it aides in aeration and it breaks down into p or k... Cant remember atm.... Sunday wake n bake got me sofa-king-we-Todd-did....

Lol. I feel ya. Although I've been up since crack of dawn. Getting ready to get out of work and get blown! Coir is also very good at buffering ph as well. Unlike peat which over time can become acidic.

Vumar · Aug 30, 2015

green_machine_two9er said:
Good stuff. My weLL COMES OUT at 225-250. That is still ok for me.
About pest. One thing as soil growers we should all remember that the plant has natural pest resistance built into the genetic code. A happy healthy soil grown plant will automatically fight those buggies. Nematodes are great to, for gnats. But I've quite using them, as most good ewc sources are already gunna have bene nematodes. This is my top dress recipe. 1 qrt per light, 1 qrt coco coir, 2 tbsp each , neem, crab, diatomacues earth, and bio tone 3-4-4. When this is all mixed I add about the same volume of ewc. I haven't seen any bug in over six months. Not even one gnat!

I have oyster shell among many other additives in my soil to balance my PH. The lime/lemon n grape juices were just to Ph waterings if I needed too. The idea of having a completely dry top-soil is to avoid pests specifically the fungus gnats that need moisture and soil to survive/re-populate. I have so much hydroton as a hydro grower anyways... why not use it? xD It'll help specifically with distributing the water evenly without destroying or moving top-soil around. It's also great Ph-wise too and will be an easy thing to remove and re-use from the soil once the grow is finished. There is no real draw-back to this hydroton idea and it's a sure fire way to avoid my much hated fungus gnats. Which came with my lovely foxfarm soil.

green_machine_two9er · Aug 30, 2015

Vumar said:
I have oyster shell among many other additives in my soil to balance my PH. The lime/lemon n grape juices were just to Ph waterings if I needed too. The idea of having a completely dry top-soil is to avoid pests specifically the fungus gnats that need moisture and soil to survive/re-populate. I have so much hydroton as a hydro grower anyways... why not use it? xD It'll help specifically with distributing the water evenly without destroying or moving top-soil around. It's also great Ph-wise too and will be an easy thing to remove and re-use from the soil once the grow is finished. There is no real draw-back to this hydroton idea and it's a sure fire way to avoid my much hated fungus gnats. Which came with my lovely foxfarm soil.

Yes use what works and is available for sure. ! And figures on the fox farm. I've switched to roots for my clones and have much better results compared to ffof

Vumar · Aug 30, 2015

Do you think I am on the right path with that thought process/theory?

Vumar · Aug 30, 2015

green_machine_two9er said:
Yes use what works and is available for sure. ! And figures on the fox farm. I've switched to roots for my clones and have much better results compared to ffof

FFOF is used for more mature plants. Clones LOVE the happy frog soil from foxfarm

green_machine_two9er · Aug 30, 2015

Vumar said:
Do you think I am on the right path with that thought process/theory?

Yes. Dry on top is gunna help. I think you could skip adjusting water ph. No real benefit and coukd have negative effects I don't even know of. And yes. I never thought of the hydro ton effecting the flow of waterings. Good thinking there.
When I use to use ocean Forrest I would make it a habit of cutting 1/3 with perlite. Seems to even out the hot soil.

TLO Methods 'n' timed watering!~ Advice

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