Timber growlight question

RainDan

RainDan

Well-Known Member
doz said:
No offense, but since you decided to bring it up, I will comment.

You sell your 200w 2 COB light for $550 shipped. I can source all the same parts SHIPPED to me for $250 and I do not buy in bulk. Now, you have build time and you ship for free plus you must warranty all your work. But, considering you will get things a bit cheaper, we can throw out the "free shipping" as a bonus. Now you are down to build time, warranty work, and other overhead costs. Im sorry, but $300 for all of that? Your build time (if you put them together yourself) is probably 2 hours, if that. But lets just call it 4 @ $40 an hour (fair for an electrician). Thats only $80 in costs. Now we are at $220 profit (if not more) - $20 per unit for warranty. $200 profit per unit is pretty accurate I would venture to guess (Because lets be honest, you do not have much overhead and even if you did, you are still making an EASY 25-35% profit per unit far more than a typical business). Nothing wrong with a company making money, but dont come on here and pretend that you arent making much and we do not know what we are talking about around here.
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Sir,

The price of the product you are referring to is an actively cooled fixture. It has significant build costs that a DIY kit does not have. Again, please check your facts (and assumptions) as they are wildly inaccurate at best.

I just wanted to clarify that point and put this to rest. I will not make further comments on this matter.

OP - my apologies for getting your thread off track.

Regards,
Dan
 
slow_grow

slow_grow

Well-Known Member
doz said:
No offense, but since you decided to bring it up, I will comment.

You sell your 200w 2 COB light for $550 shipped. I can source all the same parts SHIPPED to me for $250 and I do not buy in bulk. Now, you have build time and you ship for free plus you must warranty all your work. But, considering you will get things a bit cheaper, we can throw out the "free shipping" as a bonus. Now you are down to build time, warranty work, and other overhead costs. Im sorry, but $300 for all of that? Your build time (if you put them together yourself) is probably 2 hours, if that. But lets just call it 4 @ $40 an hour (fair for an electrician). Thats only $80 in costs. Now we are at $220 profit (if not more) - $20 per unit for warranty. $200 profit per unit is pretty accurate I would venture to guess (Because lets be honest, you do not have much overhead and even if you did, you are still making an EASY 25-35% profit per unit far more than a typical business). Nothing wrong with a company making money, but dont come on here and pretend that you arent making much and we do not know what we are talking about around here.
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His 200W COB Cree kit is $399, in fact he doesn't offer a single kit at that price. Where are you getting your information?

In any case, in the event I'd like to expand my kit, can you share where you can get the following for $250 shipped? Since your here looking out for folks it would be silly not to disclose your sources for the benefit of all no?

- 2x Cree CXB3590
- 2x Cooliance Heatsinks (or similar with posted aluminum grade)
- 1x Arctic 5 (or similar 99%+ silver content paste)
- 1x Meanwell HLG-185H-C700A
- 2x Ledil reflectors
- 2x Ideal diffusers
- 2x COB holders
- 1x Potentiometer

Sorry to come off as such a fan boy but posts like yours are what makes it so intimidating for us new guys... You're just FOS entirely.
 
slow_grow

slow_grow

Well-Known Member
jeepster1993 said:
No, no..
Apples and oranges...

That $550 is NOT the price for a kit, but a prebuilt ready to hang light.
http://timbergrowlights.com/cxb200-cob-led-grow-light/
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Ahhh gotcha. Agreed. If I were to go with a setup similar to that I'd rock go green's 200W especially if they were still honoring their 30% off which puts it at $378. I nearly did actually but couldn't get past not having configuration/layout flexibility.
 
ruwtz

ruwtz

Well-Known Member
doz said:
No offense, but since you decided to bring it up, I will comment.

You sell your 200w 2 COB light for $550 shipped. I can source all the same parts SHIPPED to me for $250 and I do not buy in bulk. Now, you have build time and you ship for free plus you must warranty all your work. But, considering you will get things a bit cheaper, we can throw out the "free shipping" as a bonus. Now you are down to build time, warranty work, and other overhead costs. Im sorry, but $300 for all of that? Your build time (if you put them together yourself) is probably 2 hours, if that. But lets just call it 4 @ $40 an hour (fair for an electrician). Thats only $80 in costs. Now we are at $220 profit (if not more) - $20 per unit for warranty. $200 profit per unit is pretty accurate I would venture to guess (Because lets be honest, you do not have much overhead and even if you did, you are still making an EASY 25-35% profit per unit far more than a typical business). Nothing wrong with a company making money, but dont come on here and pretend that you arent making much and we do not know what we are talking about around here.
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Also 4 x $40 = $80? You must be a business major.

And show me a $40/hr electrician and i'll show you a burned down house.

Don't enjoy being snarky but TBF you asked for it.

Nobody came on here trying to pull wool over eyes, and Timber are well within their rights - as are any vendor - to defend their products and services in the face of shit smearing. Its only my opinion here but i'd say it is bad form to be taking a wild stab at someone's overheads and numbers and then presenting your guesswork as something resembling fact. Plain rude if you ask me.
 
D

doz

Well-Known Member
ruwtz said:
Also 4 x $40 = $80? You must be a business major.

And show me a $40/hr electrician and i'll show you a burned down house.

Don't enjoy being snarky but TBF you asked for it.

Nobody came on here trying to pull wool over eyes, and Timber are well within their rights - as are any vendor - to defend their products and services in the face of shit smearing. Its only my opinion here but i'd say it is bad form to be taking a wild stab at someone's overheads and numbers and then presenting your guesswork as something resembling fact. Plain rude if you ask me.
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Errr, typo I meant 2 hours sorry. Does not take long to put a light together we both know that, especially when it has a pre-made case. I can build a 12 light system in 3-4 hours cutting all the aluminum angle myself, mounting cobs to heatsinks, wiring everything up and thats without all the proper tools.

And $40/hour electrician? They make more than that? Where at? Most places in the country, they make far less than that especially non-union. Unless you are living in an expensive city (IE: Frisco, NY, ect).

And rude? He is the one coming in here defending his prices. Its not like I brought it up. He opened the door himself for criticism. CXB3590 are down to ~$35 currently. 200w MW drivers are about $43. Do the math. He is only using 1 driver and 2 cobs. Thats $120 plus case (cheap ass chinese shit as they all are), hardware/wiring (again, cheap, $10 will build multiple lights), reflectors, cooling. Active cooling does not cost much at all and active is cheaper than passive by far. $130 for the case/reflectors/wiring/hardware/HSF combo is easily doable.

And everyone is right (just as I stated in my previous post), he is a vendor and can sell for what the market holds. Its people like you fan boys who are the reason these LED fixtures have so much profit and are not coming down in price. Notice the amount of competition that has been created within the last 6 months yet the prices hold strong as the component cost goes down? More power to Timber (and others) for holding their prices in this market, it shows just how strong the LED field is. But at the same time, I do not feel its right for a company to come on here bullshitting everyone about how their prices are not inflated. Just calling it like I see it here.
 
jeepster1993

jeepster1993

Well-Known Member
Wait...
I just built a 6 cob light from parts.

Cost PER COB:
(round numbers)
$40 for Cree 3590 binCD 36 volt
$3 for the mount
$3 for the holder
$7 for the reflector
$16 for a nice heatsink
$1 for the thermal material
$3 for home depot bolts/ wires and misc
I need to pay tax, and shipping.

And there is no power to them yet.
The power cost me $100 for the string.
The metal for the frame cost me at Home Depot $75

Math is not my thing, but I can add.
 
ruwtz

ruwtz

Well-Known Member
doz said:
Errr, typo I meant 2 hours sorry. Does not take long to put a light together we both know that, especially when it has a pre-made case. I can build a 12 light system in 3-4 hours cutting all the aluminum angle myself, mounting cobs to heatsinks, wiring everything up and thats without all the proper tools.

And $40/hour electrician? They make more than that? Where at? Most places in the country, they make far less than that especially non-union. Unless you are living in an expensive city (IE: Frisco, NY, ect).

And rude? He is the one coming in here defending his prices. Its not like I brought it up. He opened the door himself for criticism. CXB3590 are down to ~$35 currently. 200w MW drivers are about $43. Do the math. He is only using 1 driver and 2 cobs. Thats $120 plus case (cheap ass chinese shit as they all are), hardware/wiring (again, cheap, $10 will build multiple lights), reflectors, cooling. Active cooling does not cost much at all and active is cheaper than passive by far. $130 for the case/reflectors/wiring/hardware/HSF combo is easily doable.

And everyone is right (just as I stated in my previous post), he is a vendor and can sell for what the market holds. Its people like you fan boys who are the reason these LED fixtures have so much profit and are not coming down in price. Notice the amount of competition that has been created within the last 6 months yet the prices hold strong as the component cost goes down? More power to Timber (and others) for holding their prices in this market, it shows just how strong the LED field is. But at the same time, I do not feel its right for a company to come on here bullshitting everyone about how their prices are not inflated. Just calling it like I see it here.
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I don't think anyone is bullshitting here so I don't quite know why you up so mad. Yes, you're being rude in making public wild presumptions about a firm and their prices and costs. You literally don't know what you're talking about. Timber have their place in the market and they will continue to impress customers like me with their quality and their service. I'm no fan boy, thank you, I just have no problem dropping my money on small businesses doing a thing well. I realize it is not magic, and they are a middle man if you choose to look at it that way, most people get that. Sure, I can drill holes but I chose not to with time against me.

Before making their own choice the OP deserves this information and recommendation much more than some misplaced crusade to "call it like it is" and blaming me/others for what is merely the classic market effects of supply and demand. You're not really making any sense buddy, and you're definitely not helping here. That's all i'm gonna say now.
 
tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
Timber just happens to be one of those rare, honest businesses run by people who care not only about the quality of their products, but also about customer service. Anyone who has done business with Dan can back me up on that.

The Timber pre-fab fixtures are some of the best-made lights you can imagine! They are not cheap and, in all honesty, the price probably kept them out of a lot of people's hands, initially....but there are companies selling their cheap, Chinese-manufactured, pre-fab lights for just as much, so even the pricing for a Timber pre-fab light is not that big of a deal, anymore. People buy the lights they can afford. It's not always about being economical...

...but, IF it IS about being economical and you want the the same high-quality components that go into their pre-fab lights -but without the fans, switches, chassis and the labor that goes into assembling each one by hand...then the Timber kits are some of the best values you can find anywhere on the commercial market.
 
rickymac21

rickymac21

Well-Known Member
I do appreciate the responses everyone. However, we've strayed from the main point here. Right now I'm pretty set on Timber's 300w kit for simplicity and peace of mind. Knowing it was professionally assembled and warrantied.

Now if someone can put together a shopping list with everything necessary to build this light, for cheaper, with links, then we're on to something. Thanks
 
tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
rickymac21 said:
I do appreciate the responses everyone. However, we've strayed from the main point here. Right now I'm pretty set on Timber's 300w kit for simplicity and peace of mind. Knowing it was professionally assembled and warrantied.

Now if someone can put together a shopping list with everything necessary to build this light, for cheaper, with links, then we're on to something. Thanks
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Exactly. If you decide to buy the Timber kit, then you made the right decision.
 
ruwtz

ruwtz

Well-Known Member
rickymac21 said:
I do appreciate the responses everyone. However, we've strayed from the main point here. Right now I'm pretty set on Timber's 300w kit for simplicity and peace of mind. Knowing it was professionally assembled and warrantied.

Now if someone can put together a shopping list with everything necessary to build this light, for cheaper, with links, then we're on to something. Thanks
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Did you get the kids in the school yard to do your homework back then, too? :lol:
 
researching

researching

Well-Known Member
rickymac21 said:
I do appreciate the responses everyone. However, we've strayed from the main point here. Right now I'm pretty set on Timber's 300w kit for simplicity and peace of mind. Knowing it was professionally assembled and warrantied.

Now if someone can put together a shopping list with everything necessary to build this light, for cheaper, with links, then we're on to something. Thanks
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I sent you a link. All you have to do is contact Vivi at kingbrite and she will give a shipped price to your address.

Roughly

Cree cxb3590 top bin with ideal solderless connector, reflector amd adaptor. 41.50 ea

Aluminum150mm heatsink 13.50 ea

Meanwell 320 driver $89

Wago terminal blocks $.40 ea

Remote control dimmer $15.00

Aluminum angle 8' 3/4" 1/16" thick $10.98 at lowes.

The rest of the stuff you need you may have to buy or may have already. for wiring just watch growmau5 videos or green genes garden and you are done.

The only variable is shipping.

Wire, screws,heat sink thermal insulator included in price.
 
jeepster1993

jeepster1993

Well-Known Member
rickymac21 said:
I do appreciate the responses everyone. However, we've strayed from the main point here. Right now I'm pretty set on Timber's 300w kit for simplicity and peace of mind. Knowing it was professionally assembled and warrantied.

Now if someone can put together a shopping list with everything necessary to build this light, for cheaper, with links, then we're on to something. Thanks
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You need:
Decide if the driver is going in the grow or remotely(It does get hot). If it is remote, mine is, you will need some lamp zip cord. I bought 8 feet. If it is on the light frame, it comes with the wiring needed to run it.
A frame. You need to to decide the cob layout. Then build a frame.The kit comes with mounting bolts already.
A knob for the pot. I don't know why they do not come with a knob??? Or not. I got a knob.
I got a 5 cob set from Timber and made an X shaped frame. A 2x2.5 foot tent.
Plug it in and grow.
 
S

Shugglet

Well-Known Member
Kits definitely have their place in the market. Obviously they are going to seem like a rip to a DIY person, but I really dont think they are for the DIYers that get into building LEDs.

Its quite complicated and to the average person it can take quite a bit of research and time to learn. And it can be quite daunting.

Consider the fact that if the person doesnt have to sit and research for hours on end to not only to learn about the topic but also sourcing parts etc. All of this takes time for anyone, and much much more so for someone not familiar with the topic. And we all know time = money. So, sure it might not "cost" him money because hes already done all the research, but it is also a cost savings for the customer and should be considered that way.

These kits do I think open up a window though to make it easier for the average grower to see what goes into making a DIY COB and if they get their feet wet with a kit they might be more inclined to go a more custom route in the future.

Thats what I love about DIY LED grow lights, the possibilities are endless and the hardware is quite versatile. These things can be customized for optimal lighting of damn near any space you could possibly grow in.
 
tstick

tstick

Well-Known Member
I'll use a "Chocolate Cake" analogy...;)

If you know how to bake, then you make your own chocolate cake from scratch. -total DIY.

If you kinda know how to cook a little bit and can follow directions on the box, then you'll buy a cake mix. All you do is add a few eggs, mix it up, throw it in a pan and into the oven. -kinda like a "kit".

And, if you're like me, and can burn water, then you just go to a bakery and have someone who is a real expert make the damn cake for you! :) - a la "pre-fab
 
rickymac21

rickymac21

Well-Known Member
ruwtz said:
Did you get the kids in the school yard to do your homework back then, too? :lol:
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I was waiting for this repsonse. I'll be honest, I have no shame. I have no desire to become an L.e.d. expert at this moment in time. I simply recognize the benefits they provide in a growing application, so I'm going to take advantage of those benefits.
For the record, the kids copied my work :hump:
 
ruwtz

ruwtz

Well-Known Member
rickymac21 said:
I was waiting for this repsonse. I'll be honest, I have no shame. I have no desire to become an L.e.d. expert at this moment in time. I simply recognize the benefits they provide in a growing application, so I'm going to take advantage of those benefits.
For the record, the kids copied my work :hump:
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I know the feeling. Check my build thread in my sig and you'll see I hadn't built so much as a spice rack when I started constructing my own grow room, so I'm all about DIY. When it came to buying lights for veg (more accurately, sending back the Mars lights I thought could do the job and going with cob after falling for the hoo-ha), I just needed a ready fix and Timber were there with what I needed. Someone else has already said it right: value isn't always about economics. Some will spend a week to save a dollar, i'm in a place where i'll spend that dollar to get my week back.

You'll choose right by your own needs, for sure. And props to RIU to be there to help you do it.
 
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