Tight space hydroponics setup

bro,

just looked over your first page again, and saw the autocad style digital render of the system, thats pretty impressive, beats my MSpaint sketches....

Anywho, how are you planning on checking the sprayers once the plants are maturing? Once those bitches take off you loose the ability to pull those netcups out... the roots flare out downward out of the cups, making damage to roots inevitable once you try to put the cup back in the site... Not to mention as you lift the cups out, the sheer weight of the matted NFT root mass pulls on the cup, and you drag the entire rails root ball out when you try to lift any of those sites cups.

With 6" pipe you might have enough to take the end cap off and put your entire arm in the tube as long as you dont have popeye arms, thats why we chose 6 sites per rail but only 3 plants per rail as to checkerboard obviously. The empty site between plants allows you constant access to see the roots of plants on either side, and sprayer pressure, also allowing to get your hand in there to change if need be without damaging roots...

Sorry man i just smoked a joint and started rambling... whats YOUR plan?

I planned to use a small rubber plug (with a diameter wider than the sprayer), drill a hole in it, and use a coupling to attach line on one end and the sprayer on the other. Something like that, maybe even use something threaded, but the point would be to be able to simply pull out the sprayer (including plug and line) from the top. Maybe I'm missing something but it seems like that should make access for cleaning/replacing/unclogging easy.

I do have end caps I could remove but only a couple of inches space on each side, so won't be able to look inside as well as I expected (will do with mirror or webcam). I actually considered buying some transparent (covered of course) pvc and/or small doors along the side or in between sites and sprayers (kinda like those round glass windows common on ships). I will have that third unused site in the middle for some access but I guess I'll have figure out something else.

I may have to submerse my pump as well and actually use the temp influence as a benefit, won't be 'warm, weather here for months. Testing the temps is one of the first things I'll do once the current ladies in my growcloset are done.

Can't remember the last time I experienced a power outage so that'll be the least of my worries. Worst case scenario I work from home a few days and water them manually. By the time that becomes an issue they'll be dead from the lack of light so the chance of power outages or pump failures doesn't make me less enthusiastic about it. I want to get a 12/24v pump+battery or UPS regardless but I don't really expect to ever need them.

"fastest growth i have seen, infact you wont believe it until you see it for yourself..." And that's one of reasons I'm going hydro in the first place. The limit to my yield is more likely the 600watt lamp and the limited space (and doing only 3 maybe 4 runs in a year), which I could get veru close to with some effort like my halfpipe scrog and a smooth run on soil as well, but if I can reach the same with a week or more less vegging I'll be happy already.

As for the status of my build, I just got the rez in, and bought a set of hole saws. According to tracking info tomorrow I should have manifold + 1/4 line, and a Hanna powersupply with european plug so I can finally try out the combi (ph and temp) meter. Still waiting on net cups to arrive. Before I do the final assembly and create the plant sites I want to put it all inside the growcloset first, may change my mind on exact rez location or turn the whole thing around, or something else.

I won't be able to harvest all my current plants at once (different phenos, 2 will need a week or so longer) so the growcloset won't be free for a while. I will do some testing with sprayers in it before that in the bathroom probably.

In the meantime, I'm going to build something smaller for the seedlings for in my small germinate/pre-grow closet. Something I can hook up to my water and/or airpump. Noticed a few others who used pvc T pieces and elbows to create a sort of cross at the bottom yet above the water level with sprayer plugged in directly. More aeroponics-like. Just something to grow roots long enough for the larger, err... less small, system.

oh and that's good news about the timer. 24/7 will keep my return waterfalls running for aeration as well.

Thanks again, great to get some feedback, advice and rambling about this

Had a bad feeling about the Hanna combo meter when I noticed it's missing a screw on the front. Got the proper Hanna power adapter with European plug in today, and it turns out the meter is dead. I can hopefully still return it (if I haven't thrown away the US power supply yet...), but will take 2 weeks or more before I get a new one...

Besides the rez, there's not one order that went smooth. Missing parts, extra parts, wrong parts, and very late parts.

Just hooked up the manifold (from Rainbird) and it's worthless for my purposes. It has little screws on the top that work like valves for each outlet, but it leaks through the screws itself too. Just a little, but it's no good. I can give it a silicon cover and proof it myself, but I think I'll just "pvc" something instead.

I also think I found my backup/mixing/aeration pump... the one I have already. It's nearly 400gph, I was hoping that would be enough for my 8 sprayers (it seems a lot more in liters ) but I think I need a bigger and better pump. I got a Sicce Syncra because it is silent, but that's about all it is. First, probably wasting some more money, I'm going to get a 5-pack of those 360 gardena sprayers and see what it does with those attached. (EDIT: they actually seem pretty good after a quick test).

Net pots shipping failed, will take nearly two more weeks... unless I find them somewhere else. I'm starting to consider creating some myself.

Just bumps on the road, I'll get it up running sooner or later.

It's like gramma always said, "don't sweat the small things, and don't pet the sweaty things..." Construction is the phase where setbacks don't cost crops...

Just read your post idea regarding the sprayers, I might just steal that from you as I have fat fingies which makes changing the sprayers a pain in the ass...

Bro I'd like to see what that 400 GPH puts out like with only 8 sprayers, I'm running 1100 GPH for 42 sprayers a system

I have some aero cloners I bought of eBay, they are a joke to be honest, but they don't cost $250+ like a turbocloner... The problem is that they only hold like 4-6 liters of fluid so with a 300 GPH pump, the res temps are a bitch to maintain. Now in the process of takin the pump and sprayer manifolds from them and putting them into a larger container where a higher fluid volume can keep the temps lower...

I had a Hanna ph600 cheapo which lasted like 2 years, when I jumped to aero, we ordered the multidisplay meters with two probes, shows realtime pH, temp, ppm, and/or EC, $120 from Chinatown, and now each res has one mounted so there is no guessing, and you can document everything to monocrop and maximize.

Btw, stopped in for only 5 minutes today, no time for pics, but just ending week 5, the buds have easily tripled or quadrupled in a week, and are currently far bigger than any finished bud sizes I ever achieved in soilless.

Best of luck with the deliveries and ordering shinanigans, can't wait to see the system start comming alive!

4tune

I seems to work a lot better with the sprayers attached, makes sense, and I think it will improve a little with the 1/4" lines straightened out and attached properly to the trays. The main reason it's not working as expected is probably the manifold. After some more reading and the comparison to your system the pump will just have to do and with my own manifold I think it will. The sprayers have small metal balls inside them, I assume to reduce clogging, maybe that will be worth the extra cost (about $6 for a 5-pack).

I also shortened the main line with a few inches in height which should help a little against losing pressure by lifting the water. I will probably have to submerse the pump, inline it seems to reduce the pressure too much. Also figured I won't actually have to place the pump at the very bottom of the rez, so I could take off a few more inches and get the max out of it.

Getting a cheap PH and temp meter while I'm getting the Hanna combi meter replaced, won't hurt to have another one to compare / as backup.

And great you can use an idea from this thread yourself.

Added some pics of my current grow and a small sample bud I harvested this weekend. Almost done. The two plants in the back (5 in total) are going any day now.

Tnx again!

Just a quick update, I finally harvested the previous run, had to use the flower closet to dry because I had way more than expected (nearly 19 ounce total, over 100 grams a plant with 5 plants total). It's all in pots now, and can finally put the hp setup together. Currently working on improving and proofing the closet, adding the pond liner and cleaning up mainly, but I'm going to put the machine itself together tomorrow.

I already have 6 seeds in a propagator since last night. Within a week hopefully I'll move them to a small bubble box, where they will go in net pots until they have enough roots to move them to the closet in the hydroponic setup.

I simplified the plumbing a lot, removed the two valves as they and the connectors were reducing pressure too much. There's now one hose going from the pump to a T-piece which has one hose attached, looped, from which the thin line will go to the sprayers. I can still use the pump to empty the rez, instead of turning two valves I have to unscrew the T-piece and connect a hose instead. Takes a minute extra tops so I can live with it. I'll post some photos later this week.

Don't you just hate it when seeds don't germinate well... I had a success rate of nearly 100%, and it looks like that is going to drop a bit...

Got 6 x Liberty Haze from Barneys Farm in spongepots in a small propagator. 1 popped up after only 48 hours, still no live above or below the other spongepots after 4.5 days. Nearly 50 bucks of seemingly dead seeds... Sucks cause my mini bubble box is ready to be filled with max 6 (of which I want to use 4, maybe 1 more in soil to compare). Bought 10 so still have 4 but I have little hopes for those and it will cost me another week... so far no good.

Got the nutes in today, got the starter kit from house and garden (50% off so I just had to) which contains:
Hydro 1 liter A and 1 liter B
Roots Excelurator 250 ml
Bud XL 500 ml
Multi Enzym 500 ml
Topbooster 500 ml
Magic 500 ml
Dripclean 250 ml
2 sachets of shooting powder

I may not use all this time, or just a little of some, some of it is quite aggressive and for now I'm more concerned about keeping them alive the entire cycle rather than pushing yield to the max. The dripclean seems like a nice extra.

Anyway, I hope the seeds will germinate still in the next 3-5 days, if not I'm going to pay Barney's a visit...

I'll add a pic of the lonely lady when I get back to my PC.

OK here she is:

Still no sign of life with any of the other 5 seeds this morning. Opened two of the spongepots last night and the seeds were still closed... hadnt noticed yet how dark these two are. Put them in water in a dark mug, this morning one of the slighlty popped open so I chirurgically put it back in a spongepot. I'd be surprised if it turns into a plant. So ended up planting the other 4 seeds I had as well, hopefully at least 3 will come up, then I won't have to start all over with new (and obviously different) seeds.

Here is the Lonely Lady in the bubbler:


Her main root is about to enter the water. There is a tiny bit of H&G Hydro A+B and root excel in it. PPM is 350 (on 442 scale, 0.7 factor), ph is 5.9. Bubbler has only 200L/h airpump but also a 200L/h waterpump in it creating a small fountain ( not in pic). Water temp is roughly 65.

Tested the simplified plumbing + pump with and without sprayers and it seems like it will do just fine:


I decided to go with 6 sites, so 3 sites and 4 sprayers per tube.

Currently putting it all together in the closet:


Still missing the essential connectors to connect the sprayer lines to the main hose. I'll probably end up ordering them online for more and pay 500% shipping cost.

The main root on the seedling is over 6 inches long already. She doesn't look as healthy as she should, took a while to get the ph stable enough in the small container. Currently letting it drift from 5.6 to 6.2 so I think she'll be ok now. Looks like at least 2 of the 4 others I planted will make it, still horrible results and not enough so just ordered 5 x Kolossus.

I called her the lonely lady jokingly and yesterday she had tiny tears around the edges of the tiny leaves, weeping. Turns out I disconnected the water pump, which I guess increased the root pressure to a point where she started crying (is that common in hp?). Also removed the cap to lower humidity, since it's a seedling anyway. She stopped crying shortly after so might just have been too high humidity.

My First Hydroponic Root:


Yes, I cut those net cups myself, I know, looks like crap. Started out with 3.75" regular pots, had to reduce them to 3" first. Anyway, at least they are blue right?

Got 4 live ones by now, and some hopes for a 5th. The other half is dead. Two were hollow


Not comfortable with keeping the seedlings in the propagator longer than necessary, so moved them to the bubbler. They are not actually in the water, the clay pebbles are soaked in a bio bacteria solution (same for the spongepots).

I used roughly a 7th of the recommended amount of nutes in the water, but the ppm level is too high nevertheless. I know I need to account for the ppm in my water as well, but didn't expect with such a small doses it would matter -tap water is roughly 160 ppm. Not horrible, but going to buy an RO filter anyway. I also got several bottles of demineralized water, seems like PPM-minus, and its ph is 5.7 so I can add it without messing up the ph value - ie. if I accidentally added to much nutes.

Because they are seedlings and got the main root they will probably get tangled sooner or later - I was thinking of using some sort of sock either the roots would go through it or would attached itself to it, so probably not a great idea.

Made a noob-mistake with the bubbler, once all 6 sites are filled I don't have a hole left for the ph and ppm meters.

Guess I'll be that guy that continues to reply to his own posts...

Finally got everything I need, including 6 girls in a bubble bath with one already eager to hit the showers. Here's the final design I'm putting together and will start using in less than a week (without plants and with cleaning solutions first)



Next to the res will be a chiller based on a DIY dwc chiller topic here at RIO (the one with the igloo cooler), which will also create an additional waterfall on return.

Assembled the chiller yesterday (that is, I drilled 'a' hole) and it's working pretty well even with the old small pump and a 4mm line. Temps between 66-68 over one day, and very stable as well (1/10 of a degree change in an hour). Pump is about to fail but need a slightly larger one to chill the larger res anyway.

Little messy cause I just added the chiller (testing before I drill holes in the rez):





Some nuteburn, messed up by using water from the res to water the seedlings from the top when I noticed the pebbles dried out. PPM at roughly 500 which the smaller ones didn't like, at all. Flushed the pots a bit with 0 ppm water and they seem to be recovering quickly. My cheap chinese no-label clone ph meter that was supposed to last until I got the Hanna meter replaced, failed after barely two weeks of use. I got a eutech waterproof ph2 version meter now, seems to work much better (less jumpy, yet faster).

The larger seedling I'm going to put in the larger setup in a few days. Will add some pics of the final setup this weekend, and then I'll start a grow journal. Might keep the seedling in soil alive for a while, at least during vegging, for a comparison.

Definitely going to have to soundproof the res and/or grow closet, the returning water is pretty noisy... as expected though.

Finally put it all together. Well all... still waiting on a suction hose with a filter to be delivered,so I won't have to submerse the main pump.
Both side will obviously look the same eventually, just testing and cleaning so far.

The returning end:


Going to lower this one a bit in a minute, but not much space left so the bigger one will have to move soon. It's growing like it's on steroids while the ppm level is suited for the smaller ones (400-450ppm). Will be a nice test case for the larger setup. The others are quickly outgrowing the nute burn and doing fine as well.


Bought a new pump today for the chiller to work with the larger rez. An Eheim with 160-600L/h, can function nicely as a backup pump as well. Pretty heavy thing for it's size, good pressure relatively for such a low capacity pump. Hopefully it will create less heat than it chills - pretty sure it will though, won't need to run it at full capacity.

It's up and running and the first site is filled.

Could have moved it earlier obviously, maybe even "should" have. This is the one survivor of those first batch of 6 seeds.

Probably a cliche in this hydroponic forum, but I'm truly amazed by the result of the DWC pre veg box already. Nice thick stem too. I had to keep the ppm at a minimum because of the second batch of seedling being younger, so could have pushed it further.






She's been in the large setup for a night now, still looking very perky but the DIY chiller is no good for my large rez. Pump heats it more than it cools. Main pump is also still inside the rez, going to change that very soon (pump is submersible by default, but convertible). It was 84 degrees this morning (opposed to roughly 66-68 in my dwc rez) so way too high. Turned off lamp to cool things down while I add additional coolers and isolation. Need to get this fixed before I fill the other 5 sites. (I'm aware of the tricks with frozen bottles etc.)

I added those elbows at the end of the tray for additional root space, but on one side (with the larger plants) the roots made it all the way back into the res! That's roughly 45" of roots and I'm still vegging.

Going to create hatches in the pipes next round (like a small door between sprinkler and plant site) so I can check roots easier. I checked carefully a few times by lifting a net pot and there's a massive amount of healthy roots

This worked for a day:


Till I took a photo of the inside:


So it's going like the green line in next pic, and then downwards with return waterfall:


So, need to make some sort of container in the rez, some nylon around the pump, and make sure the roots don't get sucked up.

Going to use two separate reservoirs next round (two lower versions of same rez, connected to keep water leveled on both sides). Main reason is to lower everything so I can grow more sativa-dom again, but it will also allow for more space for roots, not near a pump.

Overall the system is working great. Had some very minor leaks (dropping) that were easy to fix. Still messing a bit with temps with frozen bottles, going from perfect at night to too warm at the the end of light on period. Once the weather gets warmer outside in a few weeks I will be able to make it cooler in my grow box (can't run fans and extractor all day now, while active intake box/housing holds air pump doing wonders for cooling if it's on).

A week ago:


Now:


Keeping the branches down with some weight for the sake of my SoG, it's truly amazing how fast branches recover in hydroponics:


Also swapped to two air stones, in the best colors:


Thanks for reading this far,
Happy Hydro Grower

Hello mute audience, just a pic update this time. They had a shower of Magic Green 12 hours ago, still wet, a little cold (as low as 62F for a few hours), but happy and eager nevertheless:

The 5 from the second germination batch caught up with the one that had a week head start, starting to look like 'a' canopy. Previous round, on soil, I used a halfpipe scrog, which was far from convenient in the tight space. So I wanted to try a SoG and not bind to a metal net. Still going to put a WebIT from secret jardin on it in a few days, basically a rope net, to keep it even during the grow spurt. There are roughly 35 weights hanging on branches to keep them down after pinch+bend 90degrees. Unless they really start to stretch insanely I think it will work out with the limited height I have. About 2 more weeks then I switch from 400w hps to a much better 600hps.



5th day 12/12
Got rez temps steady and within acceptable limits now that light is on only 12 hours a day (and spring finally made it to the Netherlands).
PPM is 800-875. Still using H&G hydro A+B, multi zen, drip clean, 3 ml of chlorine (on 15 gallon in weekly refresh) and root excel. Adding roughly a gallon a day, with only hydro A+B and multi zen.
PH 5.7 - 6.1


My pump is sort of floating near the top of the solution level (to keep the plumbing short as possible to prevent losing pressure pumping upwards) and the roots aren't going near it because there's a small circulation pump at the other end of the rez pushing keeping them on one end. It does kill the waterfall effect, so it's a good thing I was already using an air pump.

I am a little worried it will clog the return pipe up to a point where it will flood and overflow the trays, so I may have to do something crazy and burn/melt a hole near the elbow pieces (while sucking the toxic smoke away with a vacuum cleaner... can't drill bits of pvc in it) and add an additional backup return hose.

Not sure what I look forward to more, completing this run or building the improved version of my setup - which technically is now more a flooded tube grow than nft or aero.

why not just connect the elbows together with a tee and run the 4inch pipe right into the rez that would avoid all clogging issues GL