truepunk87
Well-Known Member
Thrip 
aphid 
aphid 
The Weed Nerd~
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geekmike
Well-Known Member
Sounds like ThripsNerds, can anyone help me out with some pest questions.
ive finally got some pests to play with, first time ever ive had any pests and been growing a good few years, only have it on one plant that has just been transplanted up with new soil, which has to be the culprit. Plagron Light Mix for folks to know.
Ok, so I have Eds marijuana saver and am being a bit lazy As i could probably google it as sub would say, but fuck it,
I either have Aphids or Thrips, I'm pretty convinced they are aphids but the black specks confused me as ed says this is thrip shit or something.
I started to notice a few leaves were marked a few days back, just the little sort of short wiggly lines that kinda look like snail slime at first, but only in specks. So I got my lens out and there's these yellowy little fuckers, looks more like aphids to me. They are only on the underside of the leaf too, eds book suggest this is aphids.
its just the black specks confused me and also the photos of damage in the book, both would suggest thrips. But they are only on the bottom of the leaves, not the top and they don't jump like the book says thrips can do.
so until my Pythereum arrives, or however it's spelt, it's the natural insecticide from chrysanthemums flowers, I just wiped them off the leaves with a damp cloth, I prob only saw 20 or so, so hopefully I can stop them and the pythereum 5 Ec stuff kills on contact supposedly.
i presuming this pyrethrum stuff is similar to the spinosad that sub used for his soil drench, in fact it's a natural insecticide, only thing that concerned me was that its classed as a possibly dangerous pollutant if it gets into water supply etc as it kills a lot of shit, and also that its prob not popular outdoors as it will wipeout beneficial insects too.
But everywhere i read said its prob the best solution for pests and is totally organic and natural, and even people saying u can use it upto 2 days before harvest as it will completely disappear within a day, though I won't be trying this myself!
any advice or tips appreciated cheers.
How far along are your plants in flower?
Monterey Bay Spinosad has been my best solution, remember Thrips live in the soil too so you need to spray that as well. I also add about 1 cup of Diatamacious Earth to each 10 gal container and mix it in w/ the top soil.
GreenSanta
Well-Known Member
double post...
GreenSanta
Well-Known Member
i use nematodes for them thrips, until u get the nematodes u can try a Habaneros spray solution, won't affect ur flowers. I have been struggling with the little fuckers for a little while, problem would be under control with ladybugs but everytime i would be low on ladybugs they would come back. So I just recently introduced beneficial nematodes I think it really is the way to go. it makes even more sense if u re-use ur soil.
http://www.thebugfactory.ca/?q=node/67
Steinernema feltiae nematodes
these little beneficial nems also take care of fungus gnats ... hitting 2 birds with 1 stone.
http://www.thebugfactory.ca/?q=node/67
Steinernema feltiae nematodes
these little beneficial nems also take care of fungus gnats ... hitting 2 birds with 1 stone.
baddfish99
Active Member
I'm a stoner not a doper... I fucking hate it when people refer to us as dopers.
Javadog
Well-Known Member
A Rose By Any Other Name...
I do recall cracking my bro up when I referred to smoke as "Dope" once.
I guess that the commercial program ("programming" really) of the early 70's
did not really work on me, as they taught me the word without the desired
connotation. (there were many "public service messages" back in the day,
and this was one of them..."Why do you think they call it dope?" ;0)
Onward and upward,
JD
I do recall cracking my bro up when I referred to smoke as "Dope" once.
I guess that the commercial program ("programming" really) of the early 70's
did not really work on me, as they taught me the word without the desired
connotation. (there were many "public service messages" back in the day,
and this was one of them..."Why do you think they call it dope?" ;0)
Onward and upward,
JD
dolamic
Well-Known Member
Pyrethrum is a plant (Chrysanthemum cinerariifolium). Pyrethrum is also the name of the crude extract obtained from flowers of this plant.
Be careful not to confuse pyrethrum with pyrethrin. Pyrethrin refers to a more refined extract of pyrethrum. Pyrethrin is in body lice medicines such as A-200 Pyrinate, Barc, Lice-Enz, Licetrol, Pronto, R and C, RID, Tisit, Tisit Blue, and Triple X.
The commercially available combination of pyrethrins (0.17-0.33%) and piperonyl butoxide (2-4%) seems to be safe when applied to the skin in a nonaerosol product.
Pyrethrum is POSSIBLY SAFE when used on the skin in amounts less than 2 grams. While pyrethrum has limited toxicity at low doses, it can cause some side effects such as headache, ringing of the ears, nausea, tingling of fingers and toes, breathing problems, and other nervous system problems.
[h=4]Special Precautions & Warnings:[/h] Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Not enough is known about the use of pyrethrum during pregnancy and breast-feeding. Stay on the safe side and avoid use.
Children: It’s UNSAFE to put pyrethrum on children less than two years old.
Asthma: Exposure to pyrethrin might make asthma worse. Avoid using pyrethrum or pyrethrin products if you have asthma.
Allergy to ragweed and related plants: The pyrethrum flower or pyrethrin extracted from it may cause an allergic reaction in people who are sensitive to the Asteraceae/Compositae family. Members of this family include ragweed, chrysanthemums, marigolds, daisies, and many others. If you have allergies, be sure to check with your healthcare provider before using pyrethrum.
One of the common extra ingredients is PBO, which is a synthetic synergist that gives the basic insecticide more killing power.
As you can read in the Journal of Pesticide Reform, (Vol. 22, No. 1), published by the Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides, there are scary facets to pyrethrum. The journal says that, in laboratory tests, insecticides made from pyrethrum have caused tumors in animals, increased the risk of leukemia, disrupted the normal function of sex hormones, and triggered allergic reactions including heart attack and asthma (see http://www.pesticide.org/PyrethrinsPyrethrum.pdf
Because of a recent surge of interest in using pyrethrum for mosquito control, I feel that I need to make my warnings stronger. Pyrethrum and related products are neurotoxins. These days, they are being recommended for use as safe, natural insecticides. The concept of the backyard mosquito mist system in which they are being used is good, but cedar or other biological products should be used instead of neurotoxins. The alternatives work as well, but they don't kill beneficial insects and are considerably less toxic.
In addition, some consultants and quite a few stores and contractors are selling and using combination pyrethrum/diatomaceous earth/PBO products. This concerns me because they are promoting these products as organics, and the idea often is marketed as something that I approve. I don't approve. In my opinion, these pest-control products are in the same unacceptable category as diazinon, Dursban, Sevin and Orthene.
PBO deserves specific comment as well. It shows up in a variety of pesticides, even some orange oil/d-limonene and neem products. These combinations are unacceptable in an organic program. You'll find information about PBO in the Journal of Pesticide Reform, too.
PBO has some of the same toxicity issues as pyrethrum, but it is exponentially worse when mixed with other toxic chemicals to make them more effective at killing bugs. Pyrethrum products are toxic to bees, fish and other aquatic life, but they are even more toxic when PBO is added. For me, pyrethrum no longer is an acceptable insect control in an organic program. Pyrethrum combined with PBO has never been acceptable.
Furthermore, synthetic pyrethroids that also contain PBO are even worse than the "natural" products. Synthetic pyrethroids are similar in chemistry and action to pyrethrum pesticides, but they are a bigger problem for people with allergies and asthma. One of those synthetic pyrethroid products is Scourge, which is being used by Dallas and other cities for mosquito control. Its active ingredients are a pyrethroid called resmethrin and PBO. Some consumer products containing synthetic pyrethroids also are available for the control of ticks, fleas, ants and other insects. I urge you to avoid them.
Found this after doing some checking around on the subject.
I thought that Pyrethrum was a safe organic alternative also.
Be careful not to confuse pyrethrum with pyrethrin. Pyrethrin refers to a more refined extract of pyrethrum. Pyrethrin is in body lice medicines such as A-200 Pyrinate, Barc, Lice-Enz, Licetrol, Pronto, R and C, RID, Tisit, Tisit Blue, and Triple X.
The commercially available combination of pyrethrins (0.17-0.33%) and piperonyl butoxide (2-4%) seems to be safe when applied to the skin in a nonaerosol product.
Pyrethrum is POSSIBLY SAFE when used on the skin in amounts less than 2 grams. While pyrethrum has limited toxicity at low doses, it can cause some side effects such as headache, ringing of the ears, nausea, tingling of fingers and toes, breathing problems, and other nervous system problems.
[h=4]Special Precautions & Warnings:[/h] Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Not enough is known about the use of pyrethrum during pregnancy and breast-feeding. Stay on the safe side and avoid use.
Children: It’s UNSAFE to put pyrethrum on children less than two years old.
Asthma: Exposure to pyrethrin might make asthma worse. Avoid using pyrethrum or pyrethrin products if you have asthma.
Allergy to ragweed and related plants: The pyrethrum flower or pyrethrin extracted from it may cause an allergic reaction in people who are sensitive to the Asteraceae/Compositae family. Members of this family include ragweed, chrysanthemums, marigolds, daisies, and many others. If you have allergies, be sure to check with your healthcare provider before using pyrethrum.
One of the common extra ingredients is PBO, which is a synthetic synergist that gives the basic insecticide more killing power.
As you can read in the Journal of Pesticide Reform, (Vol. 22, No. 1), published by the Northwest Coalition for Alternatives to Pesticides, there are scary facets to pyrethrum. The journal says that, in laboratory tests, insecticides made from pyrethrum have caused tumors in animals, increased the risk of leukemia, disrupted the normal function of sex hormones, and triggered allergic reactions including heart attack and asthma (see http://www.pesticide.org/PyrethrinsPyrethrum.pdf
Because of a recent surge of interest in using pyrethrum for mosquito control, I feel that I need to make my warnings stronger. Pyrethrum and related products are neurotoxins. These days, they are being recommended for use as safe, natural insecticides. The concept of the backyard mosquito mist system in which they are being used is good, but cedar or other biological products should be used instead of neurotoxins. The alternatives work as well, but they don't kill beneficial insects and are considerably less toxic.
In addition, some consultants and quite a few stores and contractors are selling and using combination pyrethrum/diatomaceous earth/PBO products. This concerns me because they are promoting these products as organics, and the idea often is marketed as something that I approve. I don't approve. In my opinion, these pest-control products are in the same unacceptable category as diazinon, Dursban, Sevin and Orthene.
PBO deserves specific comment as well. It shows up in a variety of pesticides, even some orange oil/d-limonene and neem products. These combinations are unacceptable in an organic program. You'll find information about PBO in the Journal of Pesticide Reform, too.
PBO has some of the same toxicity issues as pyrethrum, but it is exponentially worse when mixed with other toxic chemicals to make them more effective at killing bugs. Pyrethrum products are toxic to bees, fish and other aquatic life, but they are even more toxic when PBO is added. For me, pyrethrum no longer is an acceptable insect control in an organic program. Pyrethrum combined with PBO has never been acceptable.
Furthermore, synthetic pyrethroids that also contain PBO are even worse than the "natural" products. Synthetic pyrethroids are similar in chemistry and action to pyrethrum pesticides, but they are a bigger problem for people with allergies and asthma. One of those synthetic pyrethroid products is Scourge, which is being used by Dallas and other cities for mosquito control. Its active ingredients are a pyrethroid called resmethrin and PBO. Some consumer products containing synthetic pyrethroids also are available for the control of ticks, fleas, ants and other insects. I urge you to avoid them.
Found this after doing some checking around on the subject.
I thought that Pyrethrum was a safe organic alternative also.
TrichomeBob
New Member
Yeah thanks for the info guys, I dont think it's wise to use it outside just for the fact it's can wipe out a lot of insects, but I cant see this as a issue inside if I'm careful, I'm pretty sure it's not the concentrated stuff, I'll up some photos when it arrives.
its only affected one plant so far, that's only in veg, and is luckily the only plant in that tent, apart from 4 clones which are fine, 2 of these clones are in the same 'new' soil, but don't show any marks, but they really tiny pots.
by the pics, Im still convinced these are aphids, my last post wasn't really well wrote, the main things I need to know are.
can thrips live on the underside of the leaves only?
ive read comments of people saying that when they water, they see thrips larvae crawling up through the soil, is this true? And if it is I'm presuming u have to have a pretty big infestation for that to happen.
so if this is just aphids, the pyrethrum should sort them out, and if its thrips, it will kill the adults and then I Just need to worry about the soil. Is this right?
Any tips for a soil drench, spinosad is pretty hard to find in the UK, I've seen people using sand to stop them reproducing, shall I try that?
ive also ordered some cold pressed neem oil and some decent soap to make my own spray, I've been pretty lazy with preventatives as its never seemed to be a issue, but I'm gonna start as I can see this causing me probs if I le it get into my flower tent.
thx nerds.
its only affected one plant so far, that's only in veg, and is luckily the only plant in that tent, apart from 4 clones which are fine, 2 of these clones are in the same 'new' soil, but don't show any marks, but they really tiny pots.
by the pics, Im still convinced these are aphids, my last post wasn't really well wrote, the main things I need to know are.
can thrips live on the underside of the leaves only?
ive read comments of people saying that when they water, they see thrips larvae crawling up through the soil, is this true? And if it is I'm presuming u have to have a pretty big infestation for that to happen.
so if this is just aphids, the pyrethrum should sort them out, and if its thrips, it will kill the adults and then I Just need to worry about the soil. Is this right?
Any tips for a soil drench, spinosad is pretty hard to find in the UK, I've seen people using sand to stop them reproducing, shall I try that?
ive also ordered some cold pressed neem oil and some decent soap to make my own spray, I've been pretty lazy with preventatives as its never seemed to be a issue, but I'm gonna start as I can see this causing me probs if I le it get into my flower tent.
thx nerds.
TrichomeBob
New Member
Thanks for the tip about the diatomaceous earth, that's gonna be added to my next mix
ok after a bit of research ifound this on aphid damage.
'Aphids suck the sap out of the leaves and stems of the host plants, weakening them and causing distortion to emerging flowers and leaves. Bad Aphid infestations are very debilitating. The buds don't swell fully, and often the flowers and fruit are small.
Because aphids feed directly on the sap they are thought to be responsible for passing on viruses and other pathogens from plant to plant.
You won't be able to see any holes or bite marks because aphids feed by jabbing their long sharp mouth parts into the soft parts of the plant and sucking out the juices into their body.
Aphids excrete a sticky honeydew which turns black in damp conditions, resulting in sooty mould. This blocks the leaf pores and cuts out light falling on the leaves, apart from being quite unsightly.'
so according to that I wouldn't really see the damage, so you guys are prob right and I have thrips.
azamax and spinosadare not available in UK for some reason, I can prob order from the states but its gonna take a while to get here. Anyting else I can use as a soil drench?
ok after a bit of research ifound this on aphid damage.
'Aphids suck the sap out of the leaves and stems of the host plants, weakening them and causing distortion to emerging flowers and leaves. Bad Aphid infestations are very debilitating. The buds don't swell fully, and often the flowers and fruit are small.
Because aphids feed directly on the sap they are thought to be responsible for passing on viruses and other pathogens from plant to plant.
You won't be able to see any holes or bite marks because aphids feed by jabbing their long sharp mouth parts into the soft parts of the plant and sucking out the juices into their body.
Aphids excrete a sticky honeydew which turns black in damp conditions, resulting in sooty mould. This blocks the leaf pores and cuts out light falling on the leaves, apart from being quite unsightly.'
so according to that I wouldn't really see the damage, so you guys are prob right and I have thrips.
azamax and spinosadare not available in UK for some reason, I can prob order from the states but its gonna take a while to get here. Anyting else I can use as a soil drench?
greenghost420
Well-Known Member
the black spots could be honeydew molding over. i had aphids once and they left sticky shit here n there n some spots got black...
TrichomeBob
New Member
ahh, that's were I heard it, got fungus gnats and thrips confused.
dolamic
Well-Known Member
It still may have the same effect, worth a shot.
TrichomeBob
New Member
Cool, thx guys for all your responses, I'm 100% convinced its thrips now as I had a better look under a stronger scope, I'm pretty lucky as I had planned to have a sort out after this run so it's the last plant in my veg tent and fairly small, I've had another look and could find about 10, so wiped them off and stripped everything off underneath, I had been training it and a few leafs were touching the soil which prob didn't help.
i'll try the sand method, as its gona cost me about $70 to buy spinosad or azamax from the states. I'll update if it works.
Only concern I have is thati use the plastic airpots with holes all over them, lol.
the only thing is I have near enough a whole bag of soil that must have thrips, would making some sort of neem/soap mix and pouring it into the bag do anything?
Thx nerds.
i'll try the sand method, as its gona cost me about $70 to buy spinosad or azamax from the states. I'll update if it works.
Only concern I have is thati use the plastic airpots with holes all over them, lol.
the only thing is I have near enough a whole bag of soil that must have thrips, would making some sort of neem/soap mix and pouring it into the bag do anything?
Thx nerds.
TrichomeBob
New Member
Cheers sub, I've been looking for spinosad, but like most things I can't get it over here, I can on eBay but its gonna cost me like 70 bucks for a 32oz bottle.
imma take a look a local garden centre later but don't reckon they will have anything organic, we have really poor selection over here for anything organic it seems.
i'll keep digging though.
Edit, after another quick look, it looks like the only product I can get in the UK with spinosad is a Ant Bait liquid, which I presume won't work.
Anyone know if I can use the pyrethrum 5 EC as a soil drench, I thought this was basically the same kinda thing as spinosad when I bought it? A natural pesticide/insecticide, Thx nerds.
imma take a look a local garden centre later but don't reckon they will have anything organic, we have really poor selection over here for anything organic it seems.
i'll keep digging though.
Edit, after another quick look, it looks like the only product I can get in the UK with spinosad is a Ant Bait liquid, which I presume won't work.
Anyone know if I can use the pyrethrum 5 EC as a soil drench, I thought this was basically the same kinda thing as spinosad when I bought it? A natural pesticide/insecticide, Thx nerds.
GreenSanta
Well-Known Member
I believe that any compound that cannot be found in such high concentration in nature is risky. Personally I don't use Azamax for this very same reason. I know most nerd using spinosad are still very conscious of the quality of their end product and using it is still quite a step above chemicals, but for those of you growing for personal consumption or for people with lowered immune system, your best bet is using beneficial... bugs for the bugs.
As stated above a few posts up, I use ladybugs with nematodes (Steinernema feltiae nematodes)
spinosad: (wiki)
However, most tests ignore the cytotoxic(toxicity within the cell) aspects. One study,"Cytogenetic and Hormonal Alteration in Rats Exposed to Recommended “Safe Doses” of Spinosad and Malathion Insecticides", by S.A. MANSOUR1, A.H. MOSSA AND T.M. HEIKAL, found significant markers for long term mutagenic effects in mammals.[SUP][13]
[/SUP]
As stated above a few posts up, I use ladybugs with nematodes (Steinernema feltiae nematodes)
spinosad: (wiki)
However, most tests ignore the cytotoxic(toxicity within the cell) aspects. One study,"Cytogenetic and Hormonal Alteration in Rats Exposed to Recommended “Safe Doses” of Spinosad and Malathion Insecticides", by S.A. MANSOUR1, A.H. MOSSA AND T.M. HEIKAL, found significant markers for long term mutagenic effects in mammals.[SUP][13]
[/SUP]
Shawns
Active Member
Lady bugs are good they will stay around for a long time if they have what they need food and water this is one thing I think a lot of people over look ladybugs need water, I use cotton balls on a small dish or something just soak the cotton balls with water and place them around your grow room this will help the lady bugs stay alive longer also I find you can keep ladybugs in the fridge for a long time I've had mine in the fridge for like 3 months and they're still kicking and they're fun to watch
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