The trap of Tribal Epistemology
- Thread starter ttystikk
- Start date
Big_Lou
Well-Known Member
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Some definitions;
Tribalism:
noun: tribalism
Tribalism:
noun: tribalism
- the state or fact of being organized in a tribe or tribes.
- derogatory
the behavior and attitudes that stem from strong loyalty to one's own tribe or social group.
"a society motivated by cultural tribalism"
synonyms: sectarianism, chauvinism;
esprit de corps
"the latest waves of violence were blamed on tribalism"
- derogatory
Grandpapy
Well-Known Member
Necessary for ease of birth, or the result of anal shafting. Change is happening.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
The right wing has been making up its own facts for so long they have come completely unmoored from the reality of those they say they represent. When the realization comes, the backlash will be harsh indeed.
Isn't that the definition of propaganda? Repeating non factual as factual to ultimately be accepted as factual?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Yep.
Ask the CIA about 'blowback' once the propaganda has been exposed for what it is.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
http://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/3/23/14986048/military-pentagon-rosa-brooks-defense-industry-terrorism
'When Everything Becomes War and the Military Becomes Everything,' by Rosa Brooks.
The slow slide into a military viewpoint as the default way of looking at and dealing with the world.
Our Constitutional Rights are already a casualty of always being at war; the War on Terrorism is the excuse for everything from outrageous defense spending too militarized police to denying access to information about local water supplies.
What about how America operates, does business and sees the world is NOT fascist?
'When Everything Becomes War and the Military Becomes Everything,' by Rosa Brooks.
The slow slide into a military viewpoint as the default way of looking at and dealing with the world.
Our Constitutional Rights are already a casualty of always being at war; the War on Terrorism is the excuse for everything from outrageous defense spending too militarized police to denying access to information about local water supplies.
What about how America operates, does business and sees the world is NOT fascist?
There was supposed to be a demonstration at the Kremlin a day or so ago..police announced that if you show up you may not ever go home.
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esh dov ets
Well-Known Member
Most effective propaganda have some grain of Truth. Repeating it is only one of many strategies. Propaganda can be a way of presenting facts. Propaganda is today called public relations. As propaganda became a bad word after ww2. Now propaganda is used as a label for meaning misleading information and it often is that.
Propaganda is used subtley in school and by adults and peers as children grow up. One source of propaganda comes from everyday people reiciting their personal take on what they have been led to believe. I will come back with definitions from books.. propaganda is the wide spreading of information for the purpose of dirrecting or influencing behavior or thoughts.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
A brilliant article on how to overcome the facts;
http://timharford.com/2017/03/the-problem-with-facts/
Examples include the tobacco industry and, yes, the Chump's successful presidential campaign.
An interesting tidbit; only 4% of a sample of millions of people had read at least ten articles and two opinion pieces in the preceding six months!
What this tells me is that there is an overwhelming majority of people who take on an idea and then internalize it without bothering to verify it.
Worse, it seems clear that the lower the intelligence of the individual involved, the more this seems to be the case. This might explain the behavior of so many of the trolls here.
http://timharford.com/2017/03/the-problem-with-facts/
Examples include the tobacco industry and, yes, the Chump's successful presidential campaign.
An interesting tidbit; only 4% of a sample of millions of people had read at least ten articles and two opinion pieces in the preceding six months!
What this tells me is that there is an overwhelming majority of people who take on an idea and then internalize it without bothering to verify it.
Worse, it seems clear that the lower the intelligence of the individual involved, the more this seems to be the case. This might explain the behavior of so many of the trolls here.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Step one; tell folks you're on the case and that you have the best minds working the problem.
Step two; show doubt and confusion by questioning the logic of the facts and offering other causes.
Step three; normalize by complaining that the subject has been covered to death, it's old news and it's time to move on.
This explains the long successful resistance of the truth by Big Tobacco, the anti climate change crowd working on behalf of Big Oil and now America's most recent presidential campaign.
vostok
Well-Known Member
The Perinel Divide is a bar just inside Death Vally
unlicensed is a biker hangout
Terminator 3 scenes were shot their ...lol
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Here's an excerpt from that same article above, discussing how the topic of this thread- tribalism vs the facts, not taints!- colors people's perceptions;
An early indicator of how tribal our logic can be was a study conducted in 1954 by Albert Hastorf, a psychologist at Dartmouth, and Hadley Cantril, his counterpart at Princeton. Hastorf and Cantril screened footage of a game of American football between the two college teams. It had been a rough game. One quarterback had suffered a broken leg. Hastorf and Cantril asked their students to tot up the fouls and assess their severity. The Dartmouth students tended to overlook Dartmouth fouls but were quick to pick up on the sins of the Princeton players. The Princeton students had the opposite inclination. They concluded that, despite being shown the same footage, the Dartmouth and Princeton students didn’t really see the same events. Each student had his own perception, closely shaped by his tribal loyalties. The title of the research paper was “They Saw a Game”.
Hmmmm... 'taint' that interesting?
An early indicator of how tribal our logic can be was a study conducted in 1954 by Albert Hastorf, a psychologist at Dartmouth, and Hadley Cantril, his counterpart at Princeton. Hastorf and Cantril screened footage of a game of American football between the two college teams. It had been a rough game. One quarterback had suffered a broken leg. Hastorf and Cantril asked their students to tot up the fouls and assess their severity. The Dartmouth students tended to overlook Dartmouth fouls but were quick to pick up on the sins of the Princeton players. The Princeton students had the opposite inclination. They concluded that, despite being shown the same footage, the Dartmouth and Princeton students didn’t really see the same events. Each student had his own perception, closely shaped by his tribal loyalties. The title of the research paper was “They Saw a Game”.
Hmmmm... 'taint' that interesting?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
This thread is for the 4% who cares enough about the truth to go looking for it.
The rest of you are already long gone by now...
So how to defeat this constant disinformation and distraction campaign, coming from all sides? First, call the lie a lie WITHOUT repeating it. Second, attack the credibility of the source- with humor, as it tends to stick better than more dry facts. Third, counter with the truth- but this time, couch it in terms of relatable experience. Finally, tell the listener that the tribe of truth is more attractive, again, in a way that makes them want to join the team.
'Everybody knows that if Donald Trump tells you the sun rises in the East, the best thing to do is get up at dawn to see for yourself!'
The rest of you are already long gone by now...
So how to defeat this constant disinformation and distraction campaign, coming from all sides? First, call the lie a lie WITHOUT repeating it. Second, attack the credibility of the source- with humor, as it tends to stick better than more dry facts. Third, counter with the truth- but this time, couch it in terms of relatable experience. Finally, tell the listener that the tribe of truth is more attractive, again, in a way that makes them want to join the team.
'Everybody knows that if Donald Trump tells you the sun rises in the East, the best thing to do is get up at dawn to see for yourself!'
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
vostok
Well-Known Member
unlicensed no proof none ever needed
I'm not laying charges
many charges are buried out back
" I thought this was general knowledge..?'
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Lol touché Sir!