The Term "Flushing"

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wbd

Well-Known Member
The term "flushing" is perfectly valid in all of the following usage contexts:

- flushing to rid the medium of excess mineral buildup, which can cause nutrient lockout and other medium imbalances

- flushing to correct a feeding issue, such as overfeeding

- flushing before harvest to try and influence taste and smoke (effectiveness widely disputed)

I hope this clears up some of the obvious confusion that is being caused by various "flushing is bad/useless/stupid/etc." discussions. While flushing for taste/smoke may indeed not be beneficial, flushing has several other perfectly acceptable applications as noted above. Furthermore, it is perfectly acceptable to use the term "flush" in any of these contexts even though another term "leach" also exists which describes removal of solids from the growing medium.

Hope this helps someone sort thru all of the various bullshit one encounters around the forums.
 
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watchhowIdoit

New Member
wbd said:
Here are some links to feeding schedules where the manufacturers refer to flushing (the term "leaching" is never mentioned, must be newbs) for a variety of reasons, most importantly for removing excess mineral buildup from the grow medium:

http://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/FoxFarm-Soil-Schedule.pdf

http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/feeding_charts/GH_FloraDuo_twinpack.pdf
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Thats because their feeding schedules are ridiculously high. Plus it gives them an opportunity to sell you yet another bottle of crap you do not need. Learn how to feed and salt build up should never be an issue.

Flushing WILL NOT make you weed taste better. It makes a grower feel better psychologically. Which in turn psychologically makes it taste better. But puts alot of stress on you plant. Which in turn lowers your yield and potency.......
 
W

wbd

Well-Known Member
watchhowIdoit said:
Thats because their feeding schedules are ridiculously high. Plus it gives them an opportunity to sell you yet another bottle of crap you do not need. Learn how to feed and salt build up should never be an issue.

Flushing WILL NOT make you weed taste better. It makes a grower feel better psychologically. Which in turn psychologically makes it taste better. But puts alot of stress on you plant. Which in turn lowers your yield and potency.......
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I appreciate you posting. Your response is a great example of how misinformation is confusing people, and why I started this thread.

Flushing excess salts out of the growing medium has nothing to do with taste or smoke. It's not something that you do at the end of the grow, rather it's something you do periodically to prevent buildups that will lock out nutrients and cause issues. If you look at the FoxFarm feeding schedule, for example, you'll see their recommended flush has no relation to harvest and at no time is taste ever mentioned. Do you really think a fert company is going to sell you a product and then tell you that you have to take some extra step in order to wash their products out of your plant so that it doesn't taste like crap? Plus, you know as well as I do that flushing for taste doesn't matter, don't you think they know that too? Think about it.

FYI FoxFarm as an example has always recommended periodic flushing even before they had a flushing agent in their roster. You'll also notice that most (all?) manufacturers recommend alternating fert with plain water feedings -- this is also to prevent salt buildup!

Regarding flushing agents, I agree with you that they are unnecessary and just another way for them to make a buck. Plain (properly pH'd) water works fine, even adding some light organics would be great too. Anything but salt-based ferts really...

People need to stop disassociating "flush" with this one specific thing that people do at harvest for taste. Flushing has other necessary purposes. Let's stop spreading bad information, it's confusing everyone.
 
tip top toker

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
I think that you are noticing only certain things. Most people i've spoken to are well aware that flushing is not purely a harvest time concept, but rather tha's the only time they've had to slush. Mountains out of molehills i reckon. I reckon you think this dissociation or misconception is not as large as you believe it to be.

If i looked at a feeding schedule and it said flush, i'd ignore it, i've never found a need. But then i know how to grow, why would i use a feeding schedule that is not actually accurate to what your plant will require. Feeding schedules are generally designed to make you think you need more than the simple base nutrients.
 
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wbd

Well-Known Member
tip top toker said:
I think that you are noticing only certain things. Most people i've spoken to are well aware that flushing is not purely a harvest time concept, but rather tha's the only time they've had to slush. Mountains out of molehills i reckon. I reckon you think this dissociation or misconception is not as large as you believe it to be.
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At least you acknowledge it. So +rep for you.

Perhaps you are right, perhaps it's a very vocal minority. But you'll see even above, first response the poster snaps right into this robotic chant about flushing and taste. And that excess salts are not a problem if you "learn to feed". There's a grass roots movement that is influencing alot of people right now, and it's not the story that should be out there.

Check out the most recent flushing thread in H&C and see for yourself what's being said, in particular with how we're newbies if we call it flushing anymore.
 
tip top toker

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
wbd said:
At least you acknowledge it. So +rep for you.

Perhaps you are right, perhaps it's a very vocal minority. But you'll see even above, first response the poster snaps right into this robotic chant about flushing and taste. And that excess salts are not a problem if you "learn to feed".
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You initially stated that it was due to improving flavours, and then said it could be debated, he entered the debate to say that no it doesn'ty improve flavour. Where was the ignorance? I agree with what he sais. Flushing halfway though is not needed if you know what you're doing, and it has no effect on taste.

The term "flushing" is perfectly valid in all of the following usage contexts:


- flushing before harvest to try and influence taste and smoke (effectiveness widely disputed)
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I'm honestly failing to understand what point you're trying to make here in this thread. This thread is simply nothing more than another thread debating the usefulness of flushing either at harvest time, or mid grow, and so far 2-1 are saying fuck flushing :)

You keep making reference to feeding charts, which wuold rather indicate that you do not really know what you're doing, which could explain why YOU have to flush salt buildups out, but we don't.
 
VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO

VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO

New Member
I understand what he is saying,and I agree, Flushing is used to correct overfeeding problems.
what you guys are saying is, don't overfeed and you won't need to do a correction flush.
pretty simple stuff.
Nute companies always recommend way more then needed. Use nutes at 1/4 recommended strength.
 
W

wbd

Well-Known Member
tip top toker said:
You initially stated that it was due to improving flavours, and then said it could be debated, he entered the debate to say that no it doesn'ty improve flavour. Where was the ignorance? I agree with what he sais. Flushing halfway though is not needed if you know what you're doing, and it has no effect on taste.



I'm honestly failing to understand what point you're trying to make here in this thread. This thread is simply nothing more than another thread debating the usefulness of flushing either at harvest time, or mid grow, and so far 2-1 are saying fuck flushing :)

You keep making reference to feeding charts, which wuold rather indicate that you do not really know what you're doing, which could explain why YOU have to flush salt buildups out, but we don't.
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Really this thread is about the word "flushing" itself, and how it refers to a procedure that has merit at times other than harvest, and for reasons other than taste.

If you look around the forums you see enough people not only fighting to debunk the harvest/taste flush but also use of the word "flush" itself. I'm here to say it's still called flushing no matter when you do it, and for whatever reason.

My comments would make more sense, perhaps, in context with the threads where folks are insisting only newbies use the term "flush" any more, but alas my posts were being deleted. So I had to start a new thread.

In summary, the word "flush" is still OK to use. It has different purposes throughout the grow. Whether they are necessary or not is a topic for another thread. Period, end of story.
 
tip top toker

tip top toker

Well-Known Member
I've never come across what you describe. All growers i've spoken to understand that giving it lots of water mid cycle would be called flushing. There might be the odd one or two that don't grasp the idea. As i say, you're making a mountain out of an issue that i've never come across.


Seems like a pointless thread if you ask me :D
 
W

wbd

Well-Known Member
tip top toker said:
I've never come across what you describe. All growers i've spoken to understand that giving it lots of water mid cycle would be called flushing. There might be the odd one or two that don't grasp the idea. As i say, you're making a mountain out of an issue that i've never come across.


Seems like a pointless thread if you ask me :D
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It's just a forum thread among thousands of other forum threads. Not a mountain.

But you're right, for an intelligent individual such as yourself who understands what I'm talking about, this thread is completely pointless. I don't expect that you learned anything here at all, am I right? :)
 
Sunbiz1

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
W

wbd

Well-Known Member
Sunbiz1 said:
You failed to mention that FF sells their own flush...gee I wonder why?.
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Because I'm a secret agent for Fox Farm?

Actually I mentioned it specifically a few posts later. Read up and get back to me on that.
 
Sunbiz1

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
wbd said:
Because I'm a secret agent for Fox Farm?

Actually I mentioned it specifically a few posts later. Read up and get back to me on that.
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LOL...was referring to FF not you. You actually already answered it in a sense. If flushing is a medium correction after adding too much shit, then either FF is recommending using too much or people are ignoring their directions to such an extent as to create a need for the product.

I don't flush....ever. Why would I want to strip my medium of vital nutrients at a most critical time?.
 
W

wbd

Well-Known Member
Sunbiz1 said:
LOL...was referring to FF not you. You actually already answered it in a sense. If flushing is a medium correction after adding too much shit, then either FF is recommending using too much or people are ignoring their directions to such an extent as to create a need for the product.

I don't flush....ever. Why would I want to strip my medium of vital nutrients at a most critical time?.
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But to the whole point of this thread -- it's not flushing for correction, and it's not flushing at a critical time (I presume you meant harvest, sorry if I misunderstood).

It's flushing as a form of preventative maintenance, and it has always been recommended for non organic ferts. It's not until recently that "flushing" (at harvest time) is getting slammed that this type of soil maintenance is getting debunked along with it. It's confusing.

I don't flush at harvest either, I agree with you and everyone else in that camp 100%. But let's be specific when we say "flushing is bad!!" so that everyone understands we are ONLY talking about flushing at harvest to improve the quality of the product.

SUMMARY: Other forms of flushing are still useful, and we can still call them "flushing"!
 
Sunbiz1

Sunbiz1

Well-Known Member
wbd said:
I appreciate you posting. Your response is a great example of how misinformation is confusing people, and why I started this thread.

Flushing excess salts out of the growing medium has nothing to do with taste or smoke. It's not something that you do at the end of the grow, rather it's something you do periodically to prevent buildups that will lock out nutrients and cause issues. If you look at the FoxFarm feeding schedule, for example, you'll see their recommended flush has no relation to harvest and at no time is taste ever mentioned. Do you really think a fert company is going to sell you a product and then tell you that you have to take some extra step in order to wash their products out of your plant so that it doesn't taste like crap? Plus, you know as well as I do that flushing for taste doesn't matter, don't you think they know that too? Think about it.

FYI FoxFarm as an example has always recommended periodic flushing even before they had a flushing agent in their roster. You'll also notice that most (all?) manufacturers recommend alternating fert with plain water feedings -- this is also to prevent salt buildup!

Regarding flushing agents, I agree with you that they are unnecessary and just another way for them to make a buck. Plain (properly pH'd) water works fine, even adding some light organics would be great too. Anything but salt-based ferts really...

People need to stop disassociating "flush" with this one specific thing that people do at harvest for taste. Flushing has other necessary purposes. Let's stop spreading bad information, it's confusing everyone.
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I agree, in-ground plants are flushed by heavy rain so that harmful materials are carried below the root systems.
 
W

watchhowIdoit

New Member
I agree flushing/leaching is needed sometimes to CORRECT over feeding/salt build up. But if you learn proper feeding/watering habits then build up should never be an issue........
 
W

wbd

Well-Known Member
watchhowIdoit said:
I agree flushing/leaching is needed sometimes to CORRECT over feeding/salt build up. But if you learn proper feeding/watering habits then build up should never be an issue........
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Explain "proper feeding". I would assume this varies by nutrient manufacturer?
 
W

watchhowIdoit

New Member
Proper feeding comes from growing experience and reading of your plants correctly. 3-1-2 for veg, 2-1-3 for flower are good rations to work from when growing in containers.
 
W

wbd

Well-Known Member
watchhowIdoit said:
Proper feeding comes from growing experience and reading of your plants correctly. 3-1-2 for veg, 2-1-3 for flower are good rations to work from when growing in containers.
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I guess if they sold growing experience in a box most people would have bought some buy now. The rest would have started a DIY thread about it.

Of course, as you know, this type of experience takes years to acquire as different strains react differently to diff. feeding schedules, combined with all of the other variances a grow encounters it can take a long time to dial it in.

In the meantime, growers have to rely on what the manufacturer's feeding schedules. To this effect, periodic flushing would be necessary as you yourself and others readily acknowledge that the nutrients can be a bit overboard. Corrective or preventative -- we could argue about that all day but it doesn't change the necessity.
 
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