The Official Canna Coco & Nutrients Thread

GreenThumbsMcgee

Well-Known Member
Canna roots on a white widow. Look at the fuzz! View attachment 3631383
Man, my plants have been SO happy since i switched em over to cyco coco, and canna coco a+b nutes. I dont use the Rhizo though...You? I just use the a+b, the cannazym, and cal mag supplement and the pk 13/14 in flower. thats about it.... Rhizo is expensive!!! same with the boost, I hear its snake oil anyway! haha, i doubt that, but i dont think it is worth the $$ they want for it.

Abucks, how do you start your plants in coco? like from seedling to young maturity, the time that you cant give nutes. How do you get them through to when they can have nutes?
 

Abucks

Well-Known Member
Man, my plants have been SO happy since i switched em over to cyco coco, and canna coco a+b nutes. I dont use the Rhizo though...You? I just use the a+b, the cannazym, and cal mag supplement and the pk 13/14 in flower. thats about it.... Rhizo is expensive!!! same with the boost, I hear its snake oil anyway! haha, i doubt that, but i dont think it is worth the $$ they want for it.

Abucks, how do you start your plants in coco? like from seedling to young maturity, the time that you cant give nutes. How do you get them through to when they can have nutes?
I hear you on the happy plants! I use canna a&B, rhyzo, and cannazyme. I was a roots excelerator fan, but the cost is crazy. Rhyzo has worked well for me so far. I've done brix tests, with and without rhyzo, and with the rhyzo my brix raises 3 points! That's huge! I do only use it half strength after full root development to save on cost. I start my seed in a cup of water till they crack, put them in coco pre watered with 1/4 strength rhyzo, when they have two sets of true leaves, and roots at the botom of the cup, usually about 4-7 days, I hit them with 1/4 nutes. Slowly work this up to full strength over the next few waterings. With clones, I start them in a botanicare 36 cell airoponic cloner. Dip the cuts in clonex, add a couple drops of suprthrive in the res. As soon as I see the white bumps of root formation, usually 3-4 days, I transplant them in coco that's been watered with 1/4 strength nutes. Slowly work nutes up to full strength over the next couple waterings. I haven't tried boost for the same reasons as you. Not enough concrete proof it works, and is worth the insane price. I'm looking into alternatives, but haven't found anything yet. This will be the first run I do with p/k 13/14. Far more positive testimonials for this product. Everybody who uses it swears by it.
 
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GreenThumbsMcgee

Well-Known Member
This will be the first run I do with p/k 13/14. Far more positive testimonials for this product. Everybody who uses it sweats by it.
You wont be disappointed with using the PK. i went thru my 1st run using canna with JUST A+B. nothing else. they did pretty good, suprisingly, but i read the same things as you did, all those testomonials and shit, and i had to try, now i am one of the people who swear by it. Like, 40% increase, almost, and thats a genorous guess, maybe on the hefty side, but man, it makes the difference. Its how the A+B actually balances into a "flowering" soloution....
I think you got me convinced on the Rhizo by the way. Thats why i cant start em in coco well, I was skipping the one thing they needed at that time...I just would presoak the coco with 1/4 strength to 1/8 strength straight off, but they dont like that much...strain depending. the grape god i am running now sure the hell didnt like it. lol, lost about 2 weeks bouncing back right from the start...so thats why i was asking. Thanks again man.
 

Abucks

Well-Known Member
I swore by roots excel, but after I tried the rhyzo I never looked back. Seeds, clones, transplants, it works on them all. For this run I cloned 8 querkle airoponically for 4 days until root bumps formed. They went from there into one liter pots with 1/4 strength nutes and full strength rhyzo. 5 days later they were dry enough to water again, and roots were poking out the drain holes. I watered half strength, let them sit 2 more days, and transplanted them into the 15 gallon smartpots. So in only seven days after first transplant, and 11 days from cutting, the one liter pots were rooted out to the point were no loose coco fell off when I pulled them out of the pots. It took 5 more days to see roots growing out of the sides and botoms of the smartpots. It was at this point I realized how great coco, and canna is. I popped 4- AK47 and 3- white widow seeds a month or so ago, and I've already taken 52 clones off of them! I'm sexing them right now. I've done s lot of seed popping and cloning in my day, and I don't know if it's the coco, or canna nutes, or both, but I never saw vim and vigor like this. Good to hear about p/k first hand. Just like you said, I've heard people say they have had great grows with just a/b, and others say p/k makes all difference. What hooked my was all the positive reviews by people who used other companies bases. Says something when p/k is so universally liked.
 

Abucks

Well-Known Member
You wont be disappointed with using the PK. i went thru my 1st run using canna with JUST A+B. nothing else. they did pretty good, suprisingly, but i read the same things as you did, all those testomonials and shit, and i had to try, now i am one of the people who swear by it. Like, 40% increase, almost, and thats a genorous guess, maybe on the hefty side, but man, it makes the difference. Its how the A+B actually balances into a "flowering" soloution....
I think you got me convinced on the Rhizo by the way. Thats why i cant start em in coco well, I was skipping the one thing they needed at that time...I just would presoak the coco with 1/4 strength to 1/8 strength straight off, but they dont like that much...strain depending. the grape god i am running now sure the hell didnt like it. lol, lost about 2 weeks bouncing back right from the start...so thats why i was asking. Thanks again man.
One other thing I should mention. I never pack my coco. In any way shape or form. I see a lot of people saying to wet it and pack it tight before transplant. I tried this on a spare clone, and it took days longer to root. It also fell behind in growth when compared to the loose coco clones.
 

JayThe HydroGuy

Active Member
You wont be disappointed with using the PK. i went thru my 1st run using canna with JUST A+B. nothing else. they did pretty good, suprisingly, but i read the same things as you did, all those testomonials and shit, and i had to try, now i am one of the people who swear by it. Like, 40% increase, almost, and thats a genorous guess, maybe on the hefty side, but man, it makes the difference. Its how the A+B actually balances into a "flowering" soloution....
I think you got me convinced on the Rhizo by the way. Thats why i cant start em in coco well, I was skipping the one thing they needed at that time...I just would presoak the coco with 1/4 strength to 1/8 strength straight off, but they dont like that much...strain depending. the grape god i am running now sure the hell didnt like it. lol, lost about 2 weeks bouncing back right from the start...so thats why i was asking. Thanks again man.
Rhizotonic is the truth. Use 25ml per spray bottle to hit the top of your coco with seeds or fresh clones to save on how much you use and be amazed by the results.
 

JayThe HydroGuy

Active Member
I swore by roots excel, but after I tried the rhyzo I never looked back. Seeds, clones, transplants, it works on them all. For this run I cloned 8 querkle airoponically for 4 days until root bumps formed. They went from there into one liter pots with 1/4 strength nutes and full strength rhyzo. 5 days later they were dry enough to water again, and roots were poking out the drain holes. I watered half strength, let them sit 2 more days, and transplanted them into the 15 gallon smartpots. So in only seven days after first transplant, and 11 days from cutting, the one liter pots were rooted out to the point were no loose coco fell off when I pulled them out of the pots. It took 5 more days to see roots growing out of the sides and botoms of the smartpots. It was at this point I realized how great coco, and canna is. I popped 4- AK47 and 3- white widow seeds a month or so ago, and I've already taken 52 clones off of them! I'm sexing them right now. I've done s lot of seed popping and cloning in my day, and I don't know if it's the coco, or canna nutes, or both, but I never saw vim and vigor like this. Good to hear about p/k first hand. Just like you said, I've heard people say they have had great grows with just a/b, and others say p/k makes all difference. What hooked my was all the positive reviews by people who used other companies bases. Says something when p/k is so universally liked.
I saw a change in mass within a day of starting PK 13/14. I did start in week 4 and ran it until the end of week 7. My first run with Canna but it made sense to deviate from the standard feed schedule on this. Its like the most cost effective bottle in the line. If you're not using it, I would recommend picking it up.
 

Abucks

Well-Known Member
I saw a change in mass within a day of starting PK 13/14. I did start in week 4 and ran it until the end of week 7. My first run with Canna but it made sense to deviate from the standard feed schedule on this. Its like the most cost effective bottle in the line. If you're not using it, I would recommend picking it up.
I gota bottle sitting on the self waiting patiently. In an email, canna said to start at half strength mid week 4 and raise it to full through week 5 and then taper off again half way into week six. This way you won't miss the boost window. Sounds just like what you did! Glad to hear it works, and can't wait to try it myself :)
 

GreenThumbsMcgee

Well-Known Member
abucks,
I gotta suggest something i learned about PK 13/14. They call for it to only be used in week 4, or 6, i cant remember. I was growing Ghost train haze the 1st time i tried the PK, and GTH#1 is an 11 week strain...as alot of sativas are longer running strains. Well, I got a good tip from someone in this thread i believe. When using it, it really helps to stagger your feeds with pk, so if you had a 11-12 week strain, hit it like week 5, 7, and 9 to ensure you hit the window. The grower who suggested that said someone at canna told them that by staggering the feed you wont hurt the plant by giving it more than recommended. Hitting it one time is pretty weak, in my opinion. I like to make sure it is getting it when it needs it. If your runing a indica, say a 9 week strain, i'd suggest hitting it weeks 4, 6, and 8, or something like that. Just a tidbit to hopefully help you see the swell first hand. Happy growing man.
 

Skunk Baxter

Well-Known Member
That's exactly what I do, too - hammer 'em hard in several different weeks. I'm in Week 9, and still pounding the PK - and still getting new bud growth. In Week 7 they started to foxtail, but I didn't care. Just kept hammering them, and now the buds are swelling out to surround the foxtails (or the foxtails are getting fatter, or both) and some of the buds have actually doubled in mass in less than 3 weeks. I have one plant that had several 2 or 3 inch buds an inch or so apart, then they started to foxtail, and now they've all grown together in a mass of 3 or 4 inch buds packed together as one. And 3 weeks ago, I thought that plant was about done.

I'm backing off on the PK nutes now, though, because the trichomes are getting where I want them to be and I'm still getting new white pistils, so I want to let the buds fill out around some of those pistils before I cut 'em. Still lovin' this Canna.
 

GreenThumbsMcgee

Well-Known Member
for sure. It is a wonderful product man. And you know by the way, I noticed more fox-tailing when using the PK in my experience also. I have never thought it to be a bad thing by any means, they just fill in, like you said yours were.
 

Skunk Baxter

Well-Known Member
Yeah, a lot of people freak over foxtails... I don't get it. "OMG, I had foxtails, so I chopped the whole grow and started over!!!" Jesus, man, WTF? It's bud! Yeah, it may not have the best bag appeal because a lot of people think it looks funny, and yeah, foxtailing can often be an indicator that your plant is stressed, but I actually know some growers who don't believe a plant is really finished unless it's foxtailing.

I won't go that far, but I was just telling my wife last week that when I see widespread foxtailing, I know I've hit the peak levels of PK and don't jack it up anymore. I have found that there can be a correlation between foxtailing and nanners in some strains, so when I've pushed the plant to that point I stop there and watch very closely for nanners from that point on. Because I know that I'm stressing the plant by massacring it with so much PK, and I need to respect that there does come a point where I really am asking too much of her. There's always a sweet spot, and I want to stay in it - yeah, as close to the high end of it as I can get, but still within a reasonable zone.
 

Abucks

Well-Known Member
That's exactly what I do, too - hammer 'em hard in several different weeks. I'm in Week 9, and still pounding the PK - and still getting new bud growth. In Week 7 they started to foxtail, but I didn't care. Just kept hammering them, and now the buds are swelling out to surround the foxtails (or the foxtails are getting fatter, or both) and some of the buds have actually doubled in mass in less than 3 weeks. I have one plant that had several 2 or 3 inch buds an inch or so apart, then they started to foxtail, and now they've all grown together in a mass of 3 or 4 inch buds packed together as one. And 3 weeks ago, I thought that plant was about done.

I'm backing off on the PK nutes now, though, because the trichomes are getting where I want them to be and I'm still getting new white pistils, so I want to let the buds fill out around some of those pistils before I cut 'em. Still lovin' this Canna.
Good info. My plan was start mid week 4 and go through mid week six. I'll have to experiment with it after week six. I brix test before and after every change I make. If the brix goes up I keep the change. Will be curious to see how it works.
 

smokadepep

Well-Known Member
I believe I used PK from week 2 starting at 1.5ml per gallon gradually increasing it to 6ml a gallon by week 6. Then I cut it for week 7,8,and 9. At first I ended up using this as a supplement to th a/b formula to cut back on nitrogen because I was getting nitrogen toxicity @ 7ml a/b in week one flower. I do notice a lot of fox tailing but that could be due to the light being too close to my tops. Definitely got a good stretch from my silver kushes and got pretty close to my 1000watters. They are coming down this weekend so I will have a good idea on yield which looks pretty decent, but I have to say I am very satisfied with the trich production.
Canna is a pretty simple nutrient line for the most part. My plants looked super healthy other than the nitrogen toxicity to a couple of leaves early flowering. I am back in the market for new nutes and not sure whether I want to try canna again or switch to another brand like H&G coco. Or even get out of the A/B even ratios and go back to H3ads formula.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
Yeah, a lot of people freak over foxtails... I don't get it. "OMG, I had foxtails, so I chopped the whole grow and started over!!!" Jesus, man, WTF? It's bud! Yeah, it may not have the best bag appeal because a lot of people think it looks funny, and yeah, foxtailing can often be an indicator that your plant is stressed, but I actually know some growers who don't believe a plant is really finished unless it's foxtailing.

I won't go that far, but I was just telling my wife last week that when I see widespread foxtailing, I know I've hit the peak levels of PK and don't jack it up anymore. I have found that there can be a correlation between foxtailing and nanners in some strains, so when I've pushed the plant to that point I stop there and watch very closely for nanners from that point on. Because I know that I'm stressing the plant by massacring it with so much PK, and I need to respect that there does come a point where I really am asking too much of her. There's always a sweet spot, and I want to stay in it - yeah, as close to the high end of it as I can get, but still within a reasonable zone.
Foxtailing is largely genetic. It can be brought out. Heat does it the most. A close second is bloom additives. Bloombastic , Greenfuse, and B'cuzz from Atami comes to mind. Certain products can prolong harvests dates by "stacking" a quick new flower set on top of ripe mature flowers. Its what increases yields also. It also can bring out foxtails especially in strains that have have a tendency to. Tga Jillybean used to foxtail on me....big time. I pay it no mind anymore.
 

Skunk Baxter

Well-Known Member
Foxtailing is largely genetic. It can be brought out. Heat does it the most. A close second is bloom additives. Bloombastic , Greenfuse, and B'cuzz from Atami comes to mind. Certain products can prolong harvests dates by "stacking" a quick new flower set on top of ripe mature flowers. Its what increases yields also. It also can bring out foxtails especially in strains that have have a tendency to. Tga Jillybean used to foxtail on me....big time. I pay it no mind anymore.
You can add MOAB (Mother of All Blooms) to that list. That's what I use, and I would say it's extended the finish time on this grow by approximately 3 weeks. On the other hand, I would also guess that it's added at least 30% to the yield, because (as you say) it's "tricked" the plants into starting what is essentially a second flowering cycle on top of the first. By the time they're finished, you'll still be able to tell that there had been some foxtailing, but almost all of the space between the foxtails will apparently have filled in quite nicely. I think it's mostly the MOAB, because the temps rarely get much above 82. Although some of the taller plants are closer to the light than I would like.

The mass these things are still putting on almost 11 weeks into flower is incredible. They're as dense as rocks. I have almost every single plant staked up to keep it from flopping over. One of them tricked me the other day; I was noticing for some time that it had a decently sized top bud, but didn't think much of it. Then one night I noticed the plant was bent over 90 degrees, and I thought "what the fuck?" I lifted up the cola to see what was going on, and it was like somebody had stuck lead in it or something. Fucker weighed a ton. I can't wait for this thing to get finished so I can weigh it up and see how much mass it really added.
 

since1991

Well-Known Member
You can add MOAB (Mother of All Blooms) to that list. That's what I use, and I would say it's extended the finish time on this grow by approximately 3 weeks. On the other hand, I would also guess that it's added at least 30% to the yield, because (as you say) it's "tricked" the plants into starting what is essentially a second flowering cycle on top of the first. By the time they're finished, you'll still be able to tell that there had been some foxtailing, but almost all of the space between the foxtails will apparently have filled in quite nicely. I think it's mostly the MOAB, because the temps rarely get much above 82. Although some of the taller plants are closer to the light than I would like.

The mass these things are still putting on almost 11 weeks into flower is incredible. They're as dense as rocks. I have almost every single plant staked up to keep it from flopping over. One of them tricked me the other day; I was noticing for some time that it had a decently sized top bud, but didn't think much of it. Then one night I noticed the plant was bent over 90 degrees, and I thought "what the fuck?" I lifted up the cola to see what was going on, and it was like somebody had stuck lead in it or something. Fucker weighed a ton. I can't wait for this thing to get finished so I can weigh it up and see how much mass it really added.
Thats the thing with 90% of real deal bloom "enhancers"....they prolong flowering by proh
ibiting the production of ethylene through hormone manipulation. If your willing to wait...
 
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Skunk Baxter

Well-Known Member
Thats the thing with 90% of real deal bloom "enhancers"....they prolong flowering by proh
ibiting the production of ethylene through hormone manipulation. If your willing to wait...
I am, although I can't let it go much longer. There's now a disparity between some parts of the buds - some buds have some portions that are almost finished, while other portions of the same bud are still sprouting new growth. Have to just finish this off and get 'em drying.

Just out of curiosity, I have measured 4 of the buds during this process. Over the last 2 1/2 weeks, they've grown an average of 33% in diameter, which means each of the buds that I've been tracking have nearly doubled in mass. Some of them it didn't have much or any effect on, but the better budders really exploded when I boosted 'em. I'm lookin forward to seeing how some of these weigh in when all is said and done.
 

gr865

Well-Known Member
Yeah, a lot of people freak over foxtails... I don't get it. "OMG, I had foxtails, so I chopped the whole grow and started over!!!" Jesus, man, WTF? It's bud! Yeah, it may not have the best bag appeal because a lot of people think it looks funny, and yeah, foxtailing can often be an indicator that your plant is stressed, but I actually know some growers who don't believe a plant is really finished unless it's foxtailing.

I won't go that far, but I was just telling my wife last week that when I see widespread foxtailing, I know I've hit the peak levels of PK and don't jack it up anymore. I have found that there can be a correlation between foxtailing and nanners in some strains, so when I've pushed the plant to that point I stop there and watch very closely for nanners from that point on. Because I know that I'm stressing the plant by massacring it with so much PK, and I need to respect that there does come a point where I really am asking too much of her. There's always a sweet spot, and I want to stay in it - yeah, as close to the high end of it as I can get, but still within a reasonable zone.
SB,
When I brought this to a sit down with some friends they said like you mentioned, Oh fuck man you went to long. Then I rolled a fatty of this Exodus Cheese, passed it made two passes, and it was, fuck man this shit is good. LOL

These were just before harvest!

20160317_110940.jpg 20160317_111014.jpg 20160317_111100.jpg

GR

Oh yeah, I plan on going straight coco next grow, vertical with individual panels. So I hope I can get some assistance from some of you who seem to love it. The p/k sounds very interesting, need to check it out. That is a Canna product?

Later
 
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