The GreenSanta Grow

GreenSanta said:

Are you serious? I will not do an exchange on the forum for many different reasons... but I certainly want to know why you are not satisfied with your a51s!!? you are not seeing good growth with them? soon or later I was planning on buying a couple more a51s but I am waiting to see results with them. I do wish they were a bit more powerful I mean it would cost you 5000$ if you wanted 1600watts of light ... I wonder if any big licensed producer are growing with LEDs... I love the AF600s...

I am about to go setup the 600w in room2 and take down the 336x3 ... I def. want to fix the 336x3 because it always grew very nice healthy plants regardless of the distance between the light and the canopy.

In the 4x5 room, the temps are usually around 21-22 degrees celsius with the AF600 and with the 600w I pulled the plug at 25 celsius, not sure if it was still going up. I have a 6'' inline fan in there WITH an intake fan so yeah ...

room2 2 has a 8'' fan and more space, ... I can also turn my AF600 down to 75% if it's too hot. I def dont want to go over 24 degrees celsius.

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If you can I would try just swapping out exhausts. 8" should definitely be enough. I could manage 1Ks with an 8" in TX.

gk skunky said:

If you can I would try just swapping out exhausts. 8" should definitely be enough. I could manage 1Ks with an 8" in TX.

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Temps are stable at 23 degrees right now and usually goes down a degree midnight. I am happy with that. I think this run is starting to look really nice, much better than room1.




day1 for Crisco #2 we'll see how she does under the hps. I also pulled pennywise and replaced it with a smaller plant that was much healthier. The clone is small but we'll see!! You can see her on the second picture.

Hy knows me best, sorry for being facetious it's my interweb weakness.

I just did a little HID/LED test on some girls. I have a bare 860w CMH 16" from bulb...could go 14"...and a 51 in flower mode 16" above tops. I've had it like this for about a week, and the plants are coming along great! There is one little thing I've noticed though...the bigger fans near top (well within LED footprint) are sill pointing towards vert CMH. Even the fans farthest away from CMH. Now I could prob move the 51s a little closer, but that would bring down the already limited coverage. It seems like a light mover would get the most out of your $ with these pricey smallish panels. Instead of buying four, why not drop the panel an inch or two and put a couple on a light mover? Anyone try this?

Well sorry again for temporarily derailing your nice thread. Is there any way you could open up your broken panels and take pics?

RedCarpetMatches said:

Hy knows me best, sorry for being facetious it's my interweb weakness.

I just did a little HID/LED test on some girls. I have a bare 860w CMH 16" from bulb...could go 14"...and a 51 in flower mode 16" above tops. I've had it like this for about a week, and the plants are coming along great! There is one little thing I've noticed though...the bigger fans near top (well within LED footprint) are sill pointing towards vert CMH. Even the fans farthest away from CMH. Now I could prob move the 51s a little closer, but that would bring down the already limited coverage. It seems like a light mover would get the most out of your $ with these pricey smallish panels. Instead of buying four, why not drop the panel an inch or two and put a couple on a light mover? Anyone try this?

Well sorry again for temporarily derailing your nice thread. Is there any way you could open up your broken panels and take pics?

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this isnt derailing my thread!! it's the current topic!!

Well I am surprised to hear that, I would not drop the lights any lower, it might be hard to believe but I get better growth with the lights farther than closer. The older lights were very intense though. I will take pics of the 336x3 when I get to it. For now the temps peaked at 24 degrees last night with the 600W hps effectively running around 1800 watts of lights in room2.

I like how the 600watts hps spread the light throughout the garden, giving side lighting to the whole garden while also covering 3x3 footprint on it's own.

Once I get the 336x3 fixed, it will go back there though, no doubt... especially for the summer months. I will buy a MH bulb and move the 600 in the tent and run it at 360watts. I would then free my diamond and bs240 for sidelighting in the flower rooms.

GreenSanta said:

this isnt derailing my thread!! it's the current topic!!

Well I am surprised to hear that, I would not drop the lights any lower, it might be hard to believe but I get better growth with the lights farther than closer. The older lights were very intense though. I will take pics of the 336x3 when I get to it. For now the temps peaked at 24 degrees last night with the 600W hps effectively running around 1800 watts of lights in room2.

I like how the 600watts hps spread the light throughout the garden, giving side lighting to the whole garden while also covering 3x3 footprint on it's own.

Once I get the 336x3 fixed, it will go back there though, no doubt... especially for the summer months. I will buy a MH bulb and move the 600 in the tent and run it at 360watts. I would then free my diamond and bs240 for sidelighting in the flower rooms.

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Good point about the light spread. It'll be a nice little supplementation to your panels.

Have you considered CMH?! UV, PAR, descent intensity, and less heat to where you can go open hood. They have some very nice 315w bulbs that would go great with LEDs.

RedCarpetMatches said:

Good point about the light spread. It'll be a nice little supplementation to your panels.

Have you considered CMH?! UV, PAR, descent intensity, and less heat to where you can go open hood. They have some very nice 315w bulbs that would go great with LEDs.

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maybe at some point, to be honest buying the hps was very spontaneous and not thought out. I was trying to keep my grow 100% LEDs but I am getting over that now, I am simply trying to grow the best weed! simply ...

In the meantime, I have to fix this EXPENSIVE light fixture. This is going to discourage some new LED users, but rest assured that you will never have to deal with this if you bought your light from a reliable company, especially not within the 2 first years...

So anyway, right now my plan is to take the light appart and rebuild it from scratch trying 1 cluster at a time, I don't mind buying more wire and electric tape... On the pictures you can see the 8 cluster still working and 8 dead...



on this picture, you are looking at the light with only one of the 2 switches on, 2 clusters are full on and 2 a very dimmed, I shaked the connectors but it seems to be something else ... perhaps a faulty driver!?


many ladybugs have died in the fans, the first time I tried to fix the fixture there were many more! I dont plan on using ladybugs anymore, nematodes are cleaner.


The last driver on one side doesnt have anything connecting with the one side, is this normal?


Now if any of you can let me know things I should know (like only 2 clusters per driver right?) feel free to do so, also before I take too many things apart I will try to bypass each diodes individually on each clusters to make sure it's not only 1 dead diode that kills the system.

ok so now I disconnected 2 clusters that were working, used the wires from the functional driver (the driver is the black box or that's the power supply?) and tried it on the faulty cluster, nothing, I try to reconnect the clusters that were working, no more. I fucked up. Is it possible to connect things backward and blow things up? fuck I am such a noob with this stuff...

EDIT
ok I went and connect what had been a dead cluster on a different good ones on the other switch (2 switches on the light) I hadnt messed up with that at all and the cluster works, so I bet all diodes are working just fine ... So I guess I ll have a few black box (driver?) to replace.

Also when I wasnt connect things properly I had a red light that would go on without the cluster turning on ... what does that mean is it a code for something?

Pm Supra or guod or stardust sailor . Where's Rasir or gastanker its been too long..

Thanks for sharing the open panel pix GS! Now I have a good idea where my ladybugs disappeared to Shit's really not as confusing as it looks...EXCEPT those little black boxes?!?! Might be for switches...maybe just powering fans. Where do wires lead to? Just thinking out loud. I'm also a noob, so I'll be paying attention. The good news is you have nice heatsinks, fans, and frame! I would think if you took two spliced wires from a good driver, and checked each light individually, it would tell you if the cluster is bad or not. A driver would be a very easy cheap fix, and easy to mount. Just have to read/research the driver and match the current...again I'm a noob and learning with you. Wish I could help somehow. Where's all the DIY guys?

Big black boxes are the cluster drivers, small black boxes are the fan drives. Match the ma/wattage and buy new cluster drivers, hopefully a little better quality .... red light on means that cluster if dead if you have a good driver connected to it.

Rewiring it should be self explanatory, if the wires need to be cut, just strip off and reattach with twist nuts at the local store......match the color of the wires to each other obviously.......very easy fix

PSUAGRO. said:

Big black boxes are the cluster drivers, small black boxes are the fan drives. Match the ma/wattage and buy new cluster drivers, hopefully a little better quality .... red light on means that cluster if dead if you have a good driver connected to it.

Rewiring it should be self explanatory, if the wires need to be cut, just strip off and reattach with twist nuts at the local store......match the color of the wires to each other obviously.......very easy fix

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Ok I had about an hour spare time this morning and started playing with the light. I do have 2 extra set of clusters (I think one is busted but the other works for sure) also had another spare driver from a previous repair and it turns out that it works.

So far I started playing with one side of the light and I could get each driver to work with 8 clusters, I will re-wire all those neatly and place them all on one side. But I know some of the connectors were not well connected so some clusters might have been out for that reason.

Anyway I ll try to play some more with it tomorrow but for now I have some test to run coze I got all the new gear I needed for more thin layer chromatography testing!

Great news!! My Pennywise appears to be very high in CBD! So is my ZionEaze #1 and perhaps a few others!

I love the new pipettor, much more accurate! I still have a few things that I want to improve upon but all in all I am getting decent results with my current setup. It was the last time I test the same strains so many times but I had to make sure I can really trust my testings.

I ran 3 plates today, I wasnt very happy with the first 2 and decided to re-run zioneaze and pennywise, so the third plate goes like this: zioneaze, zioneaze, penny, penny, penny.

So first things first, look at the plates seconds after I spray the dye.


As it dries out, I can usually start to see a little better.


About 20 minutes later, I could clearly see the CBD dots above the THC dots on most of my strain but I had already started testing the third plates, so, from what I am seeing, every sample tested had CBD in them.


My buddy started moving the plates around and they got a bit uglier afterward ... good thing I had already snapped a few pics!!

Here is the beauty though, as the first 2 plates were drying out, I could see clearly that my zioneaze and the pennywise had cbd, so I thought I would try to re-run those 2 strains but letting them just a bit longer with the extraction solvent and shake em a little harder. Immediately after spraying the dye, I could see clearly the CBD dot above the THC dot nearly as big as the THC dot... GREAT NEWS!! what it tells me is that I probably scored one of the 12% thc 12% cbd pennywise phenotype. Other great news was that my zion eaze also clearly scored well on CBD ... not quite as high but the strain has a much stronger smell, great for breeding. The only thing about the ZionEaze is that I am hoping she will reveg but I have no cutting of here if she doesnt, only seeds.


Here I finally snapped all plates together, the one in the middle being zioneaze,zioneaze,penny,penny,penny ... as you can see they all came out very similar which tells me that I can trust my results. The cross contamination on the first and last plate occurred afterward ... at this point though I could see that all samples had CBD in them.


I am still waiting for Joseph to get back to me regarding I few questions I have, like I have been keeping the developing solution in the developing chamber for 5 plates now and it looks like I could run more test before replacing it but I am not sure that I am supposed to do that.

Also the kit doesnt come with a lot of extraction solution, keep that in mind when running tests for the first time, you will have plenty of developing solution but do not use more than 1ml per .1gram because you will run out of extraction solution before everything else.

I will be growing my PennyWise #1 for quite some time I can't wait to test PennyWise#2 but I will have to reveg that one because I do not have a copy.

AAAWWWW YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

nice that gives me good hopes for pennywise. Id rather buy in person than order seeds. Tga is at a bunch of dispensaries and the cannabis cups.

Its cool about your light only having driver issues instead of leds fried. Thats a much easier and cheaper fix.

That's really awesome GS! TLC is helping you get that TLC from your buds

Congrats on results and jackpot keeper!!! Those tests look like some fun stuff.

First of all, Id like to let you guys know that you should take my analysis with a grain of salts, because now that I look at the results again, I see that my spacechemo is showing CBD, and it shouldnt. I wonder if that occurred because I have been re-using the same developing solution for many tests. Rest assured that I will be running more test and I still have enough prime buds from pennywise #1 to test her again as well. With that said, it is not impossible that the SpaceChemo had CBD because these were the lower buds and they were in the flower room 1 month longer, so 3 months.

Anyway Anyway... This lovely lady is PennyWise #2, I think she is a bit more of a Harlequin pheno? I have never grown harlequin but that's what I am thinking anyway. I will definitely try to reveg her, she has a wonderful smell, overall a nicer plant than pennywise #1, or was grown better this time.




I have wicked Respect coming down today or tomorrow as well, very small plants but she looks fkin stellar!!

GreenSanta said:

First of all, Id like to let you guys know that you should take my analysis with a grain of salts, because now that I look at the results again, I see that my spacechemo is showing CBD, and it shouldnt. I wonder if that occurred because I have been re-using the same developing solution for many tests. Rest assured that I will be running more test and I still have enough prime buds from pennywise #1 to test her again as well. With that said, it is not impossible that the SpaceChemo had CBD because these were the lower buds and they were in the flower room 1 month longer, so 3 months.

Anyway Anyway... This lovely lady is PennyWise #2, I think she is a bit more of a Harlequin pheno? I have never grown harlequin but that's what I am thinking anyway. I will definitely try to reveg her, she has a wonderful smell, overall a nicer plant than pennywise #1, or was grown better this time.


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I have wicked Respect coming down today or tomorrow as well, very small plants but she looks fkin stellar!!

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You have no idea how much I would love to take some samples to work and run them. I have GC/MS, HPLC, LC-MS tandem, and an ICP-MS all at my disposal. Thin layer definitely has it's down falls. We actually made our own programs at work for semi-quantification of TLC plates using a high resolution flatbed scanner and a standard curve library. We then run a couple controls of known concentration, the data of the intensity from the current read is then used against the library to extrapolate the curve of the through controls to a wider array in the library. That then gives a rough quantitative value for the plates. Cuts out the visual variation from person to person since it's very subjective and the fact not everyone's vision is the same nor is their perception of color. Very similar to Siemens strip reader they offer for their LiPA(Line probe, reverse dot southern blot) assays.

Are you using a developing chamber? Or does that kit not even mention it. Also hey as far as running out of one thing before the other, that's all pretty all the commercial kits in the medical world are too. Always a limiting reagent which will be the most expensive one. If you change anything in the protocol up from the way it was validated definitely keep ratios at 100%, though that still isn't 100% as other variables could then have greater effects. Like time and temperature, and even degree of development. Interested to see what the other tests show.

RESPECT!!! as usual, this cutting did not disappoint me, she was tiny when I transplanted her for 12/12 so she stayed small but still yielded very well. This plant is SO oily, almost all the leaves go in the hash pile, truly one of a kind. The smell is very unique and hard to describe but it's heavenly. The smoke is usually as tasty as it smells however a buddy of mine says it's not doing it for him (he has high tolerance, perhaps the cbd kick that he doesnt like) but for me it's a great all around smoke, hits me in the eyes, get me going in the day time and get me sleepy at night.

gk skunky said:

You have no idea how much I would love to take some samples to work and run them. I have GC/MS, HPLC, LC-MS tandem, and an ICP-MS all at my disposal. Thin layer definitely has it's down falls. We actually made our own programs at work for semi-quantification of TLC plates using a high resolution flatbed scanner and a standard curve library. We then run a couple controls of known concentration, the data of the intensity from the current read is then used against the library to extrapolate the curve of the through controls to a wider array in the library. That then gives a rough quantitative value for the plates. Cuts out the visual variation from person to person since it's very subjective and the fact not everyone's vision is the same nor is their perception of color. Very similar to Siemens strip reader they offer for their LiPA(Line probe, reverse dot southern blot) assays.

Are you using a developing chamber? Or does that kit not even mention it. Also hey as far as running out of one thing before the other, that's all pretty all the commercial kits in the medical world are too. Always a limiting reagent which will be the most expensive one. If you change anything in the protocol up from the way it was validated definitely keep ratios at 100%, though that still isn't 100% as other variables could then have greater effects. Like time and temperature, and even degree of development. Interested to see what the other tests show.

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THANKS gk skunky! I have a hard time getting my questions answered by Montana Biotech, he must be very busy. With that said, he did run my very first plates in his software and sent me back the qualitative results so that was nice.

I am using a mason jar as developing chamber, the one that came with the kit. I am not sure if I can re-use the solution for this step and or leave it in the jar, that's what I have been doing. I plan on starting fresh for my next testings (will be testing pennywise#2, #1, and respect next weekend)

I would love it if you could take some samples to work with you haha, if we had labs in Canada (and if it were legal...) I probably would not have learned all this stuff so in a way it's a good thing. Now I have invested in the whole thin layer chromatography process and I will always use it until they come up with something better for the home user.

The ''professional pipette'' and my new accurate scale to .01 of a gram will definitely give me results that I can use to compare with previous testings / tlc plates.

+Rep gk Skunky! (if I can...)

GreenSanta said:

RESPECT!!! as usual, this cutting did not disappoint me, she was tiny when I transplanted her for 12/12 so she stayed small but still yielded very well. This plant is SO oily, almost all the leaves go in the hash pile, truly one of a kind. The smell is very unique and hard to describe but it's heavenly. The smoke is usually as tasty as it smells however a buddy of mine says it's not doing it for him (he has high tolerance, perhaps the cbd kick that he doesnt like) but for me it's a great all around smoke, hits me in the eyes, get me going in the day time and get me sleepy at night.

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THANKS gk skunky! I have a hard time getting my questions answered by Montana Biotech, he must be very busy. With that said, he did run my very first plates in his software and sent me back the qualitative results so that was nice.

I am using a mason jar as developing chamber, the one that came with the kit. I am not sure if I can re-use the solution for this step and or leave it in the jar, that's what I have been doing. I plan on starting fresh for my next testings (will be testing pennywise#2, #1, and respect next weekend)

I would love it if you could take some samples to work with you haha, if we had labs in Canada (and if it were legal...) I probably would not have learned all this stuff so in a way it's a good thing. Now I have invested in the whole thin layer chromatography process and I will always use it until they come up with something better for the home user.

The ''professional pipette'' and my new accurate scale to .01 of a gram will definitely give me results that I can use to compare with previous testings / tlc plates.

+Rep gk Skunky! (if I can...)

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I would not be reusing your solution that's being used in the chamber. While this is not my specific specialty I know for a fact that our biochem department that uses TLC still for things like Vitamin D do not reuse, and they change as well as clean the chambers every go round. Just because you can still get some solute that will leach back from the plate into the solvent thus giving you something you you are seeing where it appears to be potential contamination even if you are certain with your procedure and practices that is not very likely. Everything needs to be kept as clean as possible. Also one other thing that could be a potential issue. What kind of tips are you using with your pipettor? You really should be using barrier filtered pipette tips, if you aren't already, to prevent any aerosolization contamination into the diaphragm of the pipette. While it's not as imperative or sensitive as the DNA/RNA stuff I deal with all day it's still a good precaution because one or two times may not do it but overtime that could definitely become a reality you'd have to deal with. Though an easy one to trouble shoot and resolve.

Those plants look killer!