Brick Top
New Member
Mmmm ok... I'll reiterate some of my findings I have posted elsewhere.
Are you familiar with the time line of early Christian Jews? Are you familiar with the Gospel sources from which the modern church is built upon?
Let's just keep it simple.
Hypothesis: There was a man named jesus who died. Now Jesus died in jerusalem which was the academic center for that region. Rome was fully in charge and all events were recorded and sent to Rome. They were all about paperwork those crafty Romans. Certainly events as gargatuan as jesus' miracles, crucifixtion, and rising from the dead would have been mentioned in correspondence form the official scribes of jerusalem back to Rome. Nope.... nothing. Then there is the idea that the high council of Jewish rabbis were called out on passover eve to debate his fate. That is utterly preposterous. No observant jew and certainly not the leaders of that observance would have done so. let's move on to the barrabas story... the idea that Pontious pilot would let a known murderer of romans go is ridiculous. Romans didn't do things like that. they might put your head on a pike at the city gates, but let you go? Nonsense. No liberal policies back then, no pardons.
But let's not get stuck in the small details of which are so numerous and easily to discredit, let's move to the meat of the jesus myth.
So jesus died. okay? No mention of him from the Romans. No mention of him ANYWHERE for about 40 years. Sound plausible? Everyone simply forgot? Like forgetting Lincoln was President after the civil war...
So then the very first mention of jesus comes from saul of tsarsus, 40 some odd years later(possibly even later). He NEVER says anything about the life of jesus, no Mary, no virgin birth, no miracles, no wise man, he knows NOTHING of an earthly jesus. How can this be? Paul wrote more than anyone about Christianity and yet nothing about jesus as a MAN. It is widely documented that all of the following gospels were lifted from paul's writings. To Paul, all events about jesus never happened on earth but in the heavens above. This was quite common in myth writings. To paul, the idea of the savior being a man was impossible.
So, then we again fall into forgetfullness and the next gospels dont appear until decades later where Paul's writings are picked up on, again a common thing in those days, stories told and retold and reworked. The authors of all the gospels never considered themselves to be writing HISTORY, they wrote ALLEGORICALLY. Scribes wrote the history in those times.
So if Paul never mentions jesus as a man or on earth, and is the ONLY source possible for the following gosples writen by Mark (mark who?), John (John who?), Luke...you get the idea....how is it jesus SUDDENLY arrives on earth and the fantastic miracles spew forth? A canard had been pulled. Things weren't going well for the Christian jews, something had to be done.
It was Constantine who saved the religion (for his own earthly purposes of course). It was then the insistence that the gospels were HISTORICAL documents began to emerge. Pagans had heard evrything about Christianity from other myths, which is another point indicating it is a myth. All of the so called "events" revolving around the "life" of jesus can be found from myths of that time period. There is not an original idea to be found. This was one of the great problems...pagans had heard all of this before. They were like what's the big deal..been there, done that. Back to Constantine because EVERYONE likes a winner. He was a winner, and then used his new "found" faith to consolidate his power. This is when the TRUE corruption of Christianity begins. Constantuine takes a relatively failing backwater myth and turns it into HISTORY, again for his own purposes.
I could go on and on...but you get the gist of it I hope.
Jesus was a myth, and not a very original one at that, but funny things happen on the way to the coliseum, now don't they? We could just as easily be worshipping Mithra....Not me of course.
out.
It is kind of funny that you say it has been proven but people like Dr. Benjamin Brenner, a researcher at the Rambam Medical Center not only says Jesus existed but also have theories of what actually killed him during his crucifixion.
You would think that if it has been proven that Jesus did not exist such learned people like that would know about it and not waste time thinking about what may have actually killed a fictional being.
You base your opinion on the lack of historical records being found in Rome. Well maybe there were none and maybe there were and they vanished or were destroyed. That is something no one will ever know.
But besides the Bible there were other ancient writings that told of Jesus. PontiusPilate wrote a book that told of Jesus and he was like on site when the deed was done killing Jesus so if Jesus never existed, was a myth, why would PontiusPilate write a book about Jesus?
Ancient historical record provides examples of writers, philosophers and historians who lived during or not long after the time Jesus is believed to have lived and who testify to the fact that he was a real person.
Lets check out a few, ok?
Cornelius Tacitus
Tacitus lived from A.D. 55 to A.D. 120. He was a Roman historian and has been described as the greatest historian of Rome, noted for his integrity and moral uprightness. His most famous works are the Annals and the Histories. The Annals relate the historical narrative from Augustus death in A.D.14 to Neros death in A.D. 68. The Histories begin their narrative after Neros death and finish with Domitians death in A.D. 96. In his section describing Neros decision to blame the fire of Rome on the Christians, Tacitus affirms that the founder of Christianity, a man he calls Chrestus (a common misspelling of Christ, which was Jesus surname), was executed by Pilate, the procurator of Judea during the reign of the Roman emperor Tiberias. Tacitus was hostile to Christianity because in the same paragraph he describes Christus or Christs death, he describes Christianity as a pernicious superstition. It would have therefore been in his interests to declare that Jesus had never existed, but he did not, and perhaps he did not because he could not without betraying the historical record.
Lucian of Samosata
Lucian was a Greek satirist of the latter half of the second century. He therefore lived within two hundred years of Jesus. Lucian was hostile to Christianity and openly mocked it. He particularly objected to the fact that Christians worshipped a man. He does not mention Jesus name, but the reference to the man Christians worship is a reference to Jesus.
Suetonius
Suetonius was a Roman historian and a court official in Emperor Hadrians government. In his Life of Claudius he refers to Claudius expelling Jews from Rome on account of their activities on behalf of a man Suetonius calls Chrestus [another misspelling of Christus or Christ].
Pliny the Younger
Pliny was the Governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor (AD. 112). He was responsible for executing Christians for not worshipping or bowing down to a statue of the emperor Trajan. In a letter to the emperor Trajan, he describes how the people on trial for being Christians would describe how they sang songs to Christ because he was a god.
Thallus and Phlegon
Both were ancient historians and both confirmed the fact that the land went dark when Jesus was crucified. This parallels what the Bible said happened when Jesus died.
Mara Bar-Serapion
Some time after 70 A.D., Mara Bar-Sarapion, who was probably a Stoic philosopher, wrote a letter to his son in which he describes how the Jews executed their King. Claiming to be a king was one of the charges the religious authorities used to scare Pontius Pilate into agreeing to execute Jesus.
Josephus
Josephus was a Jewish historian who was born in either 37 or 38 AD and died some time after 100 AD. He wrote the Jewish Antiquites and in one famous passage described Jesus as a wise man, a doer of wonderful works and calls him the Christ. He also affirmed that Jesus was executed by Pilate and actually rose from the dead!
The four Gospels
The four Gospels are the four accounts of Jesus life, which are contained in the New Testament part of the Bible. Historians will tell you that the closer an historical document is written to the time of the events it describes, the generally more reliable it is as a source of information about those events. Matthews Gospel account of Jesus life is now reckoned to have been written sometime between AD 70 and AD 80. Marks Gospel is dated between AD. 50 and AD. 65. Lukes Gospel is dated in the early AD 60s and Johns Gospel sometime between AD 80 and 100. If Jesus died sometime in the AD 30s, it is clear that Mark, Luke and Matthew wrote their Gospels within living memory of Jesus death. Johns Gospel comes later and probably outside of living memory for most as John lived to an unusually old age for the ancient period, but the accuracy of his Gospel was verified no doubt by those who read the earlier Gospels.
Another feature of the Gospels is that they were written by men who either knew Jesus personally, or who knew people who themselves knew Jesus personally. Matthew was a former tax collector who became a disciple of Jesus. Mark was a close associate of Simon Peter, who is regarded as being Jesus most prominent disciple whilst Jesus was on the earth. Luke was a close associate of Paul who is the most famous of Christian missionaries and who wrote the largest contribution to the New Testament. Paul, in turn, was a close colleague of Simon Peter. John was the former fisherman who became the closest disciple of Jesus. The accounts of such men need to be considered at least seriously!
