The Best N-P-K

PerfectNPK said:

Micro has an NPK of 5-0-1
Bloom has an NPK of 0-5-4

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Just add up the numbers and divide by half. I would consider that a 5-5-5, which will work from start to finish.

What do professional growers use?

Uncle Ben said:

Just add up the numbers and divide by half. I would consider that a 5-5-5, which will work from start to finish.

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Yeah, that would be 5-5-5 if added in equal amounts. But what do the numbers become when I add 5 extra ml of bloom or 8 extra ml of bloom?

5ml Micro p/g = 5-0-1
5ml Bloom p/g = 0-5-4
= 5-5-5

5ml Micro p/g = 5-0-1
10ml Bloom p/g= 0-10-8
= 5-10-9 ??

5ml Micro p/g = 5-0-1
13ml Bloom p/g = 0-13-10.4
= 5-13-11.4 ???
Is that right? Seems like common sense but still not sure.

PerfectNPK said:

Yeah, that would be 5-5-5 if added in equal amounts. But what do the numbers become when I add 5 extra ml of bloom or 8 extra ml of bloom?

5ml Micro p/g = 5-0-1
10ml Bloom p/g= 0-10-8
= 5-10-9 ??

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5-20-17 divided by 3 = 3-7-5.5 or pretty close to it.

I bet your math teacher gave you hell.

Uncle Ben said:

5-20-17 divided by 3 = 3-7-5.5 or pretty close to it.

I bet your math teacher gave you hell.

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Yeah I guess he probably did because I cant figure out how 5 divided by 3 equals 3. But it is still morning.

hmmm. I'll figure it out. Thanks for the help.

Outdoor:
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early veg: 5-1-1
late veg: 20-10-20
Early flowering: 10-30-10
late flowering: 5-15-15

No salt build up outdoor so flush is optional

Indoor
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Early veg: 5-1-1
late veg: 9-5-7
early flowering: 0-10-10
late flowering: 15-30-15

Flush for the last two weeks with 7.0 ph h20 (100% organic way) or with molasses at a ratio of 5ml per gallon mixed with 6.3PH water.


Heres a link so you can convert NPK to PPM http://www.firstrays.com/fertcalc.htm

Great thread.....I always heard that you should quit feeding Nitrogen to plants when there flowering. Can anybody input on that?

TheTruSmokr said:

Great thread.....I always heard that you should quit feeding Nitrogen to plants when there flowering. Can anybody input on that?

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FALSE. During flowering, plants still grow bigger and grow more roots, things that nitrogen are used for, although during this stage they start to BUD which requires more P and K. However, moving towards end of bloom, you can possibly cut out nitrogen without hurting, maybe 3 weeks before chop.

Interesting thread always is when UB is involved.
I use Dyna-Gro in hydro and the veg works great.
In bloom 1-2wks i use veg 2-3wks about 1/2 veg then 4th wk 1/4 veg. then bloom nutes.
If need be i adjust this and if i see any yellowing i had more veg.

I go by the way my plants look and mix nutes acordingly so.....don't really know N-P-K ratio and don't care.
I have good base nutes that i trust & don't use boosters.

So many people using ridiculous amounts of nutes and have no clue what they are doing.
The other day i was reading a thread and the guy had 60 bottles in his closet!

Oh yea i flush my toilet.

can you use 0-50-30 with o-14-13 or plus other super bloom stimulater and base nutrients like on the nutrient shcedule for floratonic seems like a bit much?

Hello peeps

Been lurking a little on this one as I've recently wanted to start experimenting with nutes a little.

I use AN at the mo so the sensi grow is like 5-2-5 but split up as 3-0-0(a) & 2-2-5(b) so I was going to add an extra but equal amount of part a (3-0-0) to double the Nitrogen dose, anyone tried this yet?(as there strong nutes).

I'm going to do it anyway but the calcium ratio in the part a is like 5 so would I be giving a calcium overdose as I'm not sure what would be considered as 'excessive' in terms of calcium

Like I said I'll try it anyway as I'm like that but any thoughts folks?

Amazing how we've gotten this far in the thread and still no "Best NPK"
I get it, different strains and different environments require different nutrient ratios... but at least some kindof ballpark figure?

First we need a starting point for example "1-3-2". As a general NPK for blooming. Now we could adjust that by saying that more sativa dominant strains(or purple strains or strains that branch more heavily or strains that do this or that) require a higher level of this or that nutrient.
Then we could say if your environment is more dry(dry soil, dry air, hotter air, less CO2, windier, more light) or causes the plant to dry out faster than the average environment you need to adjust these values of your NPK...
There would be a number of variables to be accounted for such as light intesity. I have read that higher light intensity can allow for a higher N value, so this would be factored into the base NPK of a vegging plant. So if you would use 3-2-1 under 25watts per square foot you might use 4-2-1 under 50watts.

In total there would be a multitude of variables but the grower could simplify them down to probably 2 or 3 main variables.
The main variable is genetics. I imagine there arent going to be a thousand different NPK tastes among different strains and the ideal could easily be determined by the nature of the growth of the strain. one ideal ratio could be attribute to sativas and another to indicas with an averaged ratio used for hybrids. Perhaps the highland sativa's would have slightly different NPK needs to the lowland sativas. There would be a few modifications needed for different classes of strains, but not too many

The next variable would be temperature, and that one would be pretty easy to work out. If phosphorus is not absorbed as readily at a lower temperature, than it seems pretty logical that high P value would be more ideal. And similarly the other values could be adjusted according to climate.

The final main variable to account for would be the air quality. This would also involve temperature and light. The faster the air causes the transpiration of water from the plant the faster the plant must bring more water into the roots from the medium to maintain equilibrium. I would speculate that the speed at which the plant absorbs water via its roots would in someway influence the efficiency of the plant to absorb different nutrients.

Light intensity should also be factored in, but the list could go on and on. The important thing would be to focus on the main factors and adjust your NPK as close the ideal as possible.

If we can understand how each of the environmental factors influence the plants needs for different nutrients then we can modify the "ideal" NPK ratio to suit our need. But we will also need to have a basepoint from which to work, a "Best NPK"

Will we never demystify the NPK question?

for veg i just use supernatural's gro terra its a 20-20-20... Works wonders for me!

urine has very nitrogen and its free, jus dilute with water before u use it

I use a 15-15-15 for veg. then i switch it to a 13-13-13 for a power boost for them cola's makes them swell and i can tell a difference each day on how much it grows works great! but i grow mine 4 nodes up or about a foot-foot and 1/2 then start them in to flowering leaving each node with buds and one NICE cola then time to harvest i cut the cola off about three inchs for bud then let it grow some more about a few months for a second stage of flowering or generation trust me that second generation IS GREAT! havent got to the third yet

Lots of great responses. Here's my attempt at answering the question of "What's the Best NPK Ratio?" If I had to pick one ratio, it would be an evenly balanced fertilizer such as 5-5-5 or 10-10-10 in a slow release form. Organic fertilizers would have an advantage over synthetic-chemical based fertilizers if you stuck to a single ratio. Beneficial microbes act like on-demand nutrient soda fountains, breaking down urea & complex minerals into usable forms the plants can use right then and there. There's no waiting on the grower to provide nutrients, the living soil takes care of all the guess work.

Some people might say that slow organic gardening isn't the best method at all. A better crop could be attained by using advanced nutrient delivery systems and monitoring nutrient uptake. If I was to grow hydroponically for instance, I would hate to be limited by a 5-5-5 fertilizer. By changing the ratio to 6-4-5, I can encourage the plant to slow it's root growth and increase it's overall mass. If I had limited space or lumens, I could change the ratio to 4-3-5. At one and two months old (from seed) 5-1-1 works great if your trying to push fast growth. Once flowering begins I would dial back the nitrogen and increase potassium and Phosphorus to 3-6-6.

Potassium helps regulate water delivery, is used in the creation of enzymes, and in some plants (not confirmed in cannabis) promotes fruiting. Phosphorus aids cell division and will be in great demand during the entire flowering process. Once the plant has stopped growing and is focusing on resin production, I would change the ratios to 1-10-10 and keep it at that until I decided to stop adding nutrients all together.

Four ratios is pretty complicated. One ratio is to limiting. Maybe we can settle on just two and call that the best ratio. In this case I would argue that 5-1-1 for veg and 1-10-10 for flower is the best ratio you can get, when you compromise between ease of use and fine tuning.

pompel said:

Just remember there's a difference between organic and chemical fertilizers. When I was growing hydro using chemicals, keeping a correct ph and ec was a constant worry, but after switching to organic and soil, I haven't checked ph once. I now use Biosevia from GHE, never had nuteburn once, or any other deficiencies. That said, I'm very curious of a brand called Metrop (Dutch), read up on products... But as DontDoDrugs pointed out, the rest of the stuff is important, make sure they get all the minerals they need! Also, as Uncle Ben says, use your common sense! Watch the plants, concentrate on their health, and wait with bloom food until they are actually flowering. Keep in mind that different strains often have different needs, the more sativa, the more careful on the dosage, as a rule of thumb.

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So your supposed to feed veg formula until the hairs start popping out?

Vindicated said:

Maybe we can settle on just two and call that the best ratio. In this case I would argue that 5-1-1 for veg and 1-10-10 for flower is the best ratio you can get, when you compromise between ease of use and fine tuning.

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You use a 1-10-10 during flowering and you'll really screw up production. I use a slow release 18-4-9 from start to finish and the colas are fat and chunky? Why? I understand botany, which means I understand what drives flower production and it certainly isn't some food that will induce leaf necrosis.

UB

i've settled on a 5-5-5 for the whole grow. i do my own little cheapo poser organics, make a mean soil for pennies using the 5-5-5 granular as the main food source, and a few times throughout i'll hit it with some fish fert (5-1-1) to keep 'em green.

i honestly believe its very hard to go wrong with a balanced npk with a little n supplementation. these bloom foods with almost no N are totally useless for blooming weed. she likes N even in flower. just try to grow thick sexy buds with yellow leaves. won't happen.