The Amendment King

ttystikk said:

Your assertion has no teeth. A vote with no consequence.

Yet you discount a veto with very real consequences.

And you want to call ME crazy?

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Actually, we can't go past this point because you have lost the argument/debate. You just express a belief and say it without facts to back it up. This is a concession that you have nothing more to add..

Padawanbater2 said:

The fact that you are willing to compromise on something like universal healthcare is what's embarrassing and sad. You're willing to throw 27 million Americans under the bus to support a bullshit policy of incrementalism

Where?

Right, when establishment Democrats hold a supermajority in congress and have control of the executive office, there is still no chance of getting universal healthcare passed. "None". So why should I support establishment Democrats?

ACA has 50/50 support. 10% more voters support enacting a universal program, including 43% of Republicans.

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You've lost touch with reality.

You are citing opinion polls which ask an open question about the ACA as if there were a better alternative. When the GOP congress showed the American people what the option is, the ACA all of a sudden got a lot more support. The GOP health care bill has 21% approval. Reasons given for disapproval is that the GOP bill isn't as good as the ACA. 79% approval pretty much makes the ACA as popular as SSI. Both programs have their detractors but they are pretty much untouchable politically. So, carp away loser.

This compromise you carp about has broad support and is making millions of lives better. I guess you'll always be a loser.

I see the ACA as a bridge to universal healthcare coverage. This is my opinion and I don't cite it as fact. Unlike you I'm able to differentiate my opinion from fact.

Fogdog said:

Actually, we can't go past this point because you have lost the argument/debate. You just express a belief and say it without facts to back it up. This is a concession that you have nothing more to add..

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Hmmmm. You picked a vote, I picked a vote. But my pick is invalid?

It's called a difference of opinion. If you can't understand that intelligent people can see the same situation two different ways that's your problem, not mine.

I don't see the Democratic Party as working for my interests. Your assertions do not add up to proof they do.

ttystikk said:

Hmmmm. You picked a vote, I picked a vote. But my pick is invalid?

It's called a difference of opinion. If you can't understand that intelligent people can see the same situation two different ways that's your problem, not mine.

I don't see the Democratic Party as working for my interests. Your assertions do not add up to proof they do.

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We can agree about facts. You keep parroting a belief without factual evidence. I keep asking you to name those "elite and corrupt Democratic party elite" who serve the oligarchs. Some facts behind that belief in their corruption is also needed. What I hear is you parroting the same propaganda that is repeated on the far right. Just like the Seth Richards story was a fake story promoted by the far left and right to discredit Democrats. What you say is false. There is no evidence that the Democratic party is even close to the corruption present in the Republican party.

It's clearly documented in the Congressional record that Democratic party leaders, all elected representatives in the Senate, gave support to the repeal of CU ruling. Give me some facts that occur after this ruling to convince me that these duplicitous Senators voted this way in order to fool us. Your story makes no sense. One Senator or a very small number is believable. But all? So I ask for something more than your very sketchy opinion. Facts.

Otherwise, this debate is at an end. I can't and won't debate your belief in absence of facts. Just concede already.

Fogdog said:

You are citing opinion polls which ask an open question about the ACA as if there were a better alternative.

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There is a better alternative; single payer. And it doesn't depend on any opinion polls; the top healthcare in the world belongs to countries that implement universal systems of coverage. This fact is undeniable.

Fogdog said:

The GOP health care bill has 21% approval. Reasons given for disapproval is that the GOP bill isn't as good as the ACA. 79% approval pretty much makes the ACA as popular as SSI. Both programs have their detractors but they are pretty much untouchable politically.

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That's not how polls work. Because the AHCA has ~21% approval does not mean that the ACA has 79% approval. The ACA has between 48%-51% approval. Universal healthcare has 60% approval, including 43% approval among Republicans. Universal healthcare is more popular than the ACA, more effective and more efficient at administering quality coverage at a cheaper cost.

Fogdog said:

This compromise you carp about has broad support and is making millions of lives better.

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Why do you oppose something that does the job better, cheaper, that more people want? Why are you continuously against democracy when it comes to healthcare coverage? Are you trying to exert your own elitist will on midwestern voters who support universal healthcare?

Padawanbater2 said:

There is a better alternative; single payer. And it doesn't depend on any opinion polls; the top healthcare in the world belongs to countries that implement universal systems of coverage. This fact is undeniable.

That's not how polls work. Because the AHCA has ~21% approval does not mean that the ACA has 79% approval. The ACA has between 48%-51% approval. Universal healthcare has 60% approval, including 43% approval among Republicans. Universal healthcare is more popular than the ACA, more effective and more efficient at administering quality coverage at a cheaper cost.

Why do you oppose something that does the job better, cheaper, that more people want? Why are you continuously against democracy when it comes to healthcare coverage? Are you trying to exert your own elitist will on midwestern voters who support universal healthcare?

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LOL. Opinion polls are every bit as confounded as you say. The only thing that matters is how people vote. Thus far, people aren't voting in any shape or manner that shows their support. And yet, opinion polls show favorable. You explain that, I can't.

I'm against universal coverage?

Yeah right.

When has there been a chance to accomplish what you dream of? It's my dream too. What was passed in 2010 was not what I want. It's what we have and better than what was before or what the present administration proposes. I'm still trying to figure out what has you so upset.

As far as the other shit you said.
Did you know that Bernie Sanders was the only presidential candidate of the major parties who said that what he would push for Universal Heath Care.

Did you know that I voted for Bernie in the primary? UHC was one of my reasons for support.

I hear California is working on a universal health care bill. How is it looking for passage?

Bernie is a coward, he runs away more than the French.

Padawanbater2 said:

There is a better alternative; single payer. And it doesn't depend on any opinion polls; the top healthcare in the world belongs to countries that implement universal systems of coverage. This fact is undeniable.

That's not how polls work. Because the AHCA has ~21% approval does not mean that the ACA has 79% approval. The ACA has between 48%-51% approval. Universal healthcare has 60% approval, including 43% approval among Republicans. Universal healthcare is more popular than the ACA, more effective and more efficient at administering quality coverage at a cheaper cost.

Why do you oppose something that does the job better, cheaper, that more people want? Why are you continuously against democracy when it comes to healthcare coverage? Are you trying to exert your own elitist will on midwestern voters who support universal healthcare?

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ELITIST! fuck yeah

UncleBuck said:

ELITIST! fuck yeah

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The job of the Democrats is no longer to represent the People, it's to run opposition for the Left.

The party elected a pharmaceutical lobbyist to be the California DNC chair.

They've been making excuses rather than changes in the wake of losing pretty much everything.

Instead of supporting Progressive candidates, they've been ignoring or actively smearing every one of them, up to and including Bernie.

The accusation that anyone who didn't vote for Hillary voted for Trump is myopic, silly and in the final analysis, unAmerican; as citizens we have the right to vote for the person who best represents our needs and ideals- but rather than face the fact that the Democrats have been losing popular support, they try to level such ridiculous accusations.

Anything to avoid admitting the truth.