Teaming with Microbes - Fertilizer Free Outdoor

Hello all. Been a while. Ill save the craziness and jump to where its currently at. I'm back and I'm legal

Soil - 50% castings, 25% unfertilized clay soil from the yard, 25% cheap peat (no trichoderma please)

Current lights, 500 watt Shineknot Inductions, Blues.

Pots until June 1st, 6.5 gallon white fabric (almost all transplanted)

Plant numbers - 36.

Location 45th degree latitude.

Strains: AMS, Lemon Garlic OG, Blue Widow, White Strawberry Skunk, Sour Diesel, Bubba's Gift, Friskan Dew, Hollands Hope, Critical Widow, Black Berry OG, Banana Split, Blueberry Gum, (possibly a couple more)

Fertilizer - lol I'm not an idiot though used to be

Current status - getting vandalized atrium ready for April 1st.

Final field - Heavily secured 15 to 20 foot on center spaced, 30,000 lbs of 3 year old castings, straw and possibly geotextile fabric?

Notes - Just getting over thrips. Thanks thripex

Total phosphorus ever added / adding - ZERO

Got a question/comment? - PM me

Have a polite question you think everyone will benefit from knowing? - Feel free to PM me and Ill post it with an answer or send you all the knowledge you wish via PM. In other words please don't tag my thread to say hi or well done. I love you all though I'm trying to document how things should be and for the ease of readers I would ask that it stay educational and on topic.

Why no trichoderma? Trichoderma, which is in every mycorrhizae inoculant of the powdered form, which is not found in Alaskan humus, is a parasitic fungi that kills all fungi which is activated in conditions of high humic acid that is found in the soils of high microbial activity and health. Cannabis is a slightly later successional plant who like a pH of 6.2 though in a healthy soil there is every pH. pH has to do with many things though I would like to draw attention to the fact that fungal dominated soils have a slightly lower pH due in part to the oxalic acid production which, under the soil, is used to attract nutrients extracted by the enzymes of the microbes. On the leaves it forms a invisible sweater, unless viewed under a scanning electron microscope after plating with nano gold, which naturally repels pests as it irritates the membranes in between the plates of pests with exoskeletons. Fungal dominated soils give plants a higher ammonium nitrogen balance as opposed to nitrates which are used with early successional plants such as weeds or grasses.

Should I add humic acid? Not from a grow shop. However possible to produce with AACT, lignin and brown mold people do not. The store products are derived from lenodrite which is an old coal. There is a slightly less toxic source though its another form of old coal found in Alberta Canada. It is hit with a heavy acid and base to knock out the humic acid and fulvic. With it comes heavy metals and other contaminants. If you want quality humates you need quality soil. Compost and castings are available sources and come with many other benefits. Compost can be just as diverse as casting though it needs to be heated to 165, properly turned and have proper ratios of green to brown. Castings is the only manure which is so diverse in terms of microbial species it is impossible for parasites to live in it. In a healthy gram of soil there are 80,000 species of microbes. Microbes are much like slugs in that they die in the presence of salts. Fertilizers are ions which are basically salts. Over 50ppm built up in the soil means your plants will not grow with out fertilizers unless the soil regains its health. Some ions are worse then others like phosphorus which was introduce just before the dust bowls. It destroys microbes and so ensures fertilizer sales. It is highly caustic due to its elemental balance and is one of the major sources of pollution. Such land polluted from phosphorus are known as "dead zones". In any healthy forest soil the phosphorus levels are .001ppm. These forests have no issue growing. It was originally a military surplus and there are many reasons it was given out though none of them were good.

No soil consisting of sand, silt or, my favorite, clay, is deficient of nutrients, only deficient of life

Is humic acid from the stores good for anything?

Yes in some cases however limiting some may need to use it. Those people will have city water supplies. In some cities they have moved from chlorine, which we all know we can bubble out for 24 hours before use (ideally with out air stone though if they are used soak in hydrogen peroxide between uses to rid of biofilm that can manifest anaerobic bacteria). The thing is some water treatment plants found this to be "not strong enough" and now use some thing known as chlorin. This can not be bubbled out. This should not be drank either though many bottled waters should not be either. At least you don't live in Flint if this is the case or the rapidly expanded areas of polluted waters. It can be complexed with humic acid or with vitamin c filters. For people high amounts of vitamin c can cause anemia as it actually depletes the system lower then it was before and restricts iron absorption. To microbes it can act as a preservative, killing some and putting others in a cyst or spore stage. To add humic just tint the water a slight shade of brown with the humic and you should be okay.

Trying to keep them small and compact until I have the atrium opperational. Still shooting for April 1st.

Pirate bugs enroute. Still lots of snow though the doors open, fans on, 74 in there now...

Started the sulfur burner last night. I saw some powdery mildew on some plants along with the mites when I returned from Central America. Not taking any chances. The first couple hours I could smell it though I dont even notice it anymore. Im going to leave it burning. Only got down to 59 in there last night. Im running my lights now on off peak time. No idea what I spent in electric this winter though I imagine it was many thousands. I had a radiant floor with 4500 watts of heating elements for the dead of winter though I imagine it is not needed at this point. We have a single digit temp coming up in a couple of days for the evening though I should have all the plants in by then, I can set up a couple more lights for heat and cycle the heat from the house through. Cleaning day again today. The inside of the atrium still needs a ton of work as the outside needs a bit as well. Hope everyone has fun growing today. Music is on, making breakfast and waiting for the sun to rise up a bit more. Waiting on some larger pots though I will likely move some of these into 9x9 inch white plastic ones to process some of this soil.

Bio-ag is a quality store bought humic/fulvic that doesn't use Leonardite.

This would be great for organics section.

karmaxul said:

Why no trichoderma? Trichoderma, which is in every mycorrhizae inoculant of the powdered form, which is not found in Alaskan humus, is a parasitic fungi that kills all fungi which is activated in conditions of high humic acid that is found in the soils of high microbial activity and health. Cannabis is a slightly later successional plant who like a pH of 6.2 though in a healthy soil there is every pH. pH has to do with many things though I would like to draw attention to the fact that fungal dominated soils have a slightly lower pH due in part to the oxalic acid production which, under the soil, is used to attract nutrients extracted by the enzymes of the microbes. On the leaves it forms a invisible sweater, unless viewed under a scanning electron microscope after plating with nano gold, which naturally repels pests as it irritates the membranes in between the plates of pests with exoskeletons. Fungal dominated soils give plants a higher ammonium nitrogen balance as opposed to nitrates which are used with early successional plants such as weeds or grasses.

Click to expand...

Interesting grow my man, albeit a lil confusing to those that may not fully understand what you are doing.


castings are almost pure bacterial, not fungal at all, your soil is going to be almost purely bacterial in regards to the microbial life
which is good, that's what you want, a fungal based mix isn't desirable for annuals like cannabis.
for trees, sure, in specific the ecto types of myco
also it's important to note that trichoderma aren't BAD...
when introduced with say, mychorrizhae it can be a problem as the trichs will simply consume the myco, especially if not introduced specifically onto the roots themselves.
but past that, trichs are a needed part of a full organic grow.

http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/149/3/1579.full

another thing i'm confused by is saying this grow is fertilizer and phosphorus free...
of course that's not true.
castings, especially at a rate of 50% is going to have a generous amount of ALL the macros, and most of the micros as well.

NaturalFarmer said:

Bio-ag is a quality store bought humic/fulvic that doesn't use Leonardite.

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You mean Monsantos product? There are 3 sources of humic/fulvic. One is leonardite as you mentioned. The other is malardrite which is also an old coal. The third is made with a type of brown mold and lignin. Do you know Monsantos history?

greasemonkeymann said:

Interesting grow my man, albeit a lil confusing to those that may not fully understand what you are doing.


castings are almost pure bacterial, not fungal at all, your soil is going to be almost purely bacterial in regards to the microbial life
which is good, that's what you want, a fungal based mix isn't desirable for annuals like cannabis.
for trees, sure, in specific the ecto types of myco
also it's important to note that trichoderma aren't BAD...
when introduced with say, mychorrizhae it can be a problem as the trichs will simply consume the myco, especially if not introduced specifically onto the roots themselves.
but past that, trichs are a needed part of a full organic grow.

http://www.plantphysiol.org/content/149/3/1579.full

another thing i'm confused by is saying this grow is fertilizer and phosphorus free...
of course that's not true.
castings, especially at a rate of 50% is going to have a generous amount of ALL the macros, and most of the micros as well.

Click to expand...

The soil food web contains far more then bacteria and fungi though these are two major players.

As to cannabis not liking a fungal mix I disagree. Cannabis is a later successional plant. A brief intro to what this means is as follows. Weeds are early successional. They are natures response to no life in the soil, much to what happens when folks use phosphorus. The lack of life builds up nitrates and the weeds feed on purely nitrates. As bacteria breeds fastest on food sourced exudates the soils are first mostly bacterial. Then come your grasses and eventually your shrubs, trees and then eventually conifers. As the successions shift the bacterial to fungal dominance does as well and conifers have highly fungal dominated soils. Cannabis prefers a 6.2 pH. This tells me that it prefers infact fungally dominated soils. Firstly I must mention in a healthy soil not only are there 80,000 species though also every pH you can think of in micro climates. These colonies have different functions and over time the plants adjust the soils successions to what is healthiest for them though also in time pushes the land to what is healthiest for everything. Bacteria produce a glue that binds them together. This glue brings up the pH of the soil. Fungi release oxalic acid. In the soil it attracts nutrients though on the leaves it repels insects with exoskeletons as it reacts with the membranes between their plates. Trichoderma is in nature though with a truely healthy soil it is suppressed with benefical fungi. Since it is otherwise activated with humates and healthy soil has humates it is a limiting factor which insures fertilizer sales. Every powdered myco now has it though the main manufactor does not add it. The two largest distributors do though they have their hands in other pots, no pun intended. As to fertilizer free. Plants need ions though my field had castings 3 years ago to introduce the life. No soil is nutrient deficient only deficient of life. As ions are mineralized and immobilized after the enzymes extract them they plants use them though they are fed to the the plants as the plants need them not by the hand of man. No more then are needed and so they feed though they are not fertilized. I do use alaskan humus to innoculate with non trichoderma fungi as this also has the thickest hyphae.

Any healthy forest soil on Earth has a phosphorus level of .001ppm

Back to before fungi dominance leads to ammonium nitrogen over nitrates. Some plants use both and some like one over the other to varying degrees

There are two Bio-Ags. One is Monsanto, and the other is the one I recommend. Thanks.
http://www.bioag.com/

Good luck with your grow! I am not a follower of what Elaine/teaming preaches (actually disdain is more of the word) but will be interested in seeing your results.

NaturalFarmer said:

There are two Bio-Ags. One is Monsanto, and the other is the one I recommend. Thanks.
http://www.bioag.com/

Good luck with your grow! I am not a follower of what Elaine/teaming preaches (actually disdain is more of the word) but will be interested in seeing your results.

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Okay great that is derived from lignite or sub-bituminous coals so you know. This is a fresh water source of leonardite and is slightly less toxic. It is found in Alberta Canada mostly exclusively. This is from the bioag site, "As an industry pioneer Dr. Faust has searched the world over for the best raw materials. The correct type is rare. Only very old fresh water sites, where ancient broad leaf tree and cycads were grown are used. Additionally, it's important that this very old material has been protected and not cracked or weathered, so only specific areas of any formation are worthy. "

Their use of words such as "protected" and "worthy" is a psychological marketing technique known as anchoring which is a watered down version of mind control, much like their product in comparison to natures sources like castings or compost or a brew we are years away from seeing. They hide the fact that it is old coal. Just say it from old coal. There is no reason to confuse folks unless they are trying to hide the many impurities. Do they say it is on their site, yes sure, if you know about the process and piece together info from three pages though not really. Dishonest crap product like most of the stuff at hydro shops. Its a nasty industry. I offer a higher quality non polluting alternative and excuse my harshness though I am well familiar with this stuff and well familiar with it environmental impact as well as final quality. Ive grown for many years. I may have used this in the past though I educated myself and wish to educate others with proper knowledge to obtain top quality with a green foot print.

They hit it with a strong acid and a strong base to knock out the humic and fulvic acid. Its how every single product is made. That company uses fermentation for their acid though its still an old coal being hit with an acid. YouPlease educate me how they get it if you think I dont know what Im talking about. There is one other way though I know they do not do it. Do you even know what that other way is? Why do you have disdain for Elaine, who saved farming as we know it speaking out against Monsanto at the UN conference or Jeff the author of Teaming with Microbes? Who is it you learn from Natural Farmer? What was that you said about bioag and leonardite again?

NaturalFarmer said:

There are two Bio-Ags. One is Monsanto, and the other is the one I recommend. Thanks.
http://www.bioag.com/

Good luck with your grow! I am not a follower of what Elaine/teaming preaches (actually disdain is more of the word) but will be interested in seeing your results.

Click to expand...

This is also from their site http://www.bioag.com/educationandresources.html

Leonardite--a soft brown coal-like deposit usually found in conjunction with deposits of lignite.

Lignite--a type of soft coal.

Why do they define some thing they do not use? You sound really smart, please educate me, I only wish to learn so I do see tons of crap product, which destroys cannabis genetics because folks want to make a dollar at any cost through misinformation and misrepresentation

How is it even possible to grow without phosphorus? Isn't there a namesake ratio or formula that states cannabis needs at least N, P, and K, synergistically, to survive?

Olive Drab Green said:

How is it even possible to grow without phosphorus? Isn't there a namesake ratio or formula that states cannabis needs at least N, P, and K, synergistically, to survive?

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Phosphorus was a military surplus introduced just before the dust bowl. It is caustic in nature. It adds weight via scare tissue though is nasty to smoke and very harmful for the ecosystem. People use it to be greedy with heavy nugs though its cost is unacceptable in my opinion. Fertilizer companies love it as it kills microbes which ensures sales. Let me ask you, how do forests grow with phosphorus levels in the soil at .001ppm? One reason we are getting sick as a people is we no longer feed our microbiome from the food we eat because we destroy the source with phosphorus. It was not introduced to help anything. It was introduced to profit from pain. It makes hydro growers sick in time and it destroys the genetics of the plant we all say we love.

To give you an answer though with plant produced exudates that feed the soil food web that feeds the plants. Diversity is key. The most diverse substance is castings. Castings are so diverse parasites can not live. The recipe is found at the top of this thread. If you want quality you never thought possible try it. Microbes can not produce carbs and plants do not extract nutrients from sand, silt or clay by way of production of enzymes. Its a complex beautiful system. I would recommend Teaming with Microbes as a wonderful introduction to the system. If you prefer youtube I know an excellent lecture by Elaine Ingham known as Common Ground, Hawaii, 2012. Its 36 hours and the audio is not the best though it is amazing information. Her husband is a nematode scientist. Did you know 4 out of every 5 species on Earth is a type of nematode?

Plant nutrition is vital. Phosphate is a necessity to ALL life. Anyone whose livelihood depends on it, or appreciate their children's future investment, should not listen to what Elaine preaches. She has developed quite the following by separating herself with nonsense. How many farms have been successful using her approach after 5 years?

I suggest you learn a bit more about Phos. Here is a good start.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/understanding-phosphorus.936758/#post-13424279

karmaxul said:

Please Monsanto, find another thread

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No, dude. You're wrong. Phosphorus is particularly REQUIRED in flowering. If you want to hamstring your bud, or even potentially kill them, be my guest, but don't try to tempt other people to drink your Koolaid.

A plant will literally show Phosphorus deficiency and slowly decline in health from there if you don't give it P. In fact, I doubt you'll get much bud at all if you don't, and none of any quality.

I am an organic farmer who makes just about all my own inputs. Good luck!