Switched from Jacks to 321 to Jacks RO 12-4-16 and getting N toxicity

pizzax1

pizzax1

Active Member
Hey all,
Wondering if anyone has any tips for me. I've been growing beautiful flowers for the last year using automatic watering in coco/perlite and feeding Jacks 321. But I would always at some point get N toxicity (deep green, tips clawing) but no actual nute burn tips. I always keep my EC around 2.0-1.8 depending on the plant. This time around I bought the RO version with 12-5-16 see if I could avoid the N toxicity since the nitrogen is all around lower without using the two part system of Jacks 321. But here I am, 1 month in and one of my plants is showing tip clawing again. EC is around 1.9 right now in the res. I also use a micro mix every two weeks. The only other thing I use is Si. These are all autoflowers by the way, so I'm wondering if these girls are just too sensitive? How else could I reduce the nitrogen with a one part besides lowering the overall EC? Before I would just lower the Part B of CalNit. It's not bad and they outgrow it, but I would like to have one grow with ZERO issues.

Thanks for any tips.
 
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Roguedawg

Well-Known Member
Just lower EC, and you dont need the micros your adding, there is plenty in the Jacks Ro. The one parts are all i use now, the Tap and RO but at a lower EC. Im at EC 1.2-1.3 once i get to multiple fertigations a day. I do use EC1.8 to 2 for a few times after transplant to fill cation exchange capacity of my coco.
 
pizzax1

pizzax1

Active Member
Roguedawg said:
Just lower EC, and you dont need the micros your adding, there is plenty in the Jacks Ro. The one parts are all i use now, the Tap and RO but at a lower EC. Im at EC 1.2-1.3 once i get to multiple fertigations a day. I do use EC1.8 to 2 for a few times after transplant to fill cation exchange capacity of my coco.
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Sorry I was vague on that, I meant micro as in microbes, not micronutrients. But thank you, thats exactly what I was looking to hear. I guess my EC is way too high for these girls.
 
pizzax1

pizzax1

Active Member
Roguedawg said:
Just lower EC, and you dont need the micros your adding, there is plenty in the Jacks Ro. The one parts are all i use now, the Tap and RO but at a lower EC. Im at EC 1.2-1.3 once i get to multiple fertigations a day. I do use EC1.8 to 2 for a few times after transplant to fill cation exchange capacity of my coco.
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Oh wait one question, you still use epsom salts right?
 
.Smoke

.Smoke

Well-Known Member
I still use the 321 but I've had to cut EC back from 2.4 to .9 just 10 days after flipping to 12/12 to get ec/ph levels to stay stable. Try lowering your Ec like these guys said and see what happens.
 
stnr420

stnr420

Well-Known Member
pizzax1 said:
Hey all,
Wondering if anyone has any tips for me. I've been growing beautiful flowers for the last year using automatic watering in coco/perlite and feeding Jacks 321. But I would always at some point get N toxicity (deep green, tips clawing) but no actual nute burn tips. I always keep my EC around 2.0-1.8 depending on the plant. This time around I bought the RO version with 12-5-16 see if I could avoid the N toxicity since the nitrogen is all around lower without using the two part system of Jacks 321. But here I am, 1 month in and one of my plants is showing tip clawing again. EC is around 1.9 right now in the res. I also use a micro mix every two weeks. The only other thing I use is Si. These are all autoflowers by the way, so I'm wondering if these girls are just too sensitive? How else could I reduce the nitrogen with a one part besides lowering the overall EC? Before I would just lower the Part B of CalNit. It's not bad and they outgrow it, but I would like to have one grow with ZERO issues.

Thanks for any tips.
Click to expand...
Lower the cal nitrate
 
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Roguedawg

Well-Known Member
Pizza I do add some epsom, but I am using well water that is more Ca. than Mg. if i was using RO water i probably wouldnt add epsom.
Rockymtn The RO and Tap versions are for the pH in the media not the res. unless you are recirculating. It is odd your res. Ph dropped like that with tap. I use well water also and my media pH dropped with Tap alone a good bit, and went up fast with the RO alone so i started alternating the 2, Tap for a few days RO for a few. I mix a res. every day though, so my res. may would drop if i left it a few days with Tap i dont know.
 
R

Roguedawg

Well-Known Member
Rockymtn I just noticed on other thread you are in DWC. That would explain your pH dropping with Tap. If you notice it climbing all the time with RO you could probably alternate RO and Tap, or even a mix of the two.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
Roguedawg said:
Rockymtn I just noticed on other thread you are in DWC. That would explain your pH dropping with Tap. If you notice it climbing all the time with RO you could probably alternate RO and Tap, or even a mix of the two.
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i'm in dtw coco now for the last year or so. the weird thing about the drop was that it was in a stand alone res. it would be fine for about 3 days and then drop into the low 4s. but yeah, they sent a free bad of RO and it was fine for a week after that
 
Snowback

Snowback

Well-Known Member
Roguedawg said:
Pizza I do add some epsom, but I am using well water that is more Ca. than Mg. if i was using RO water i probably wouldnt add epsom.
Rockymtn The RO and Tap versions are for the pH in the media not the res. unless you are recirculating. It is odd your res. Ph dropped like that with tap. I use well water also and my media pH dropped with Tap alone a good bit, and went up fast with the RO alone so i started alternating the 2, Tap for a few days RO for a few. I mix a res. every day though, so my res. may would drop if i left it a few days with Tap i dont know.
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The RO formula does not contain sulfur. If one uses the RO formula with true RO water and does not add Epsom (or some other sulfur compound), there is no sulfur in the mix. The tap water formula does not contain sulfur either.
 
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Roguedawg

Well-Known Member
Yes no sulfur, I should have added that if you do not use sulfuric for pH adjustment you should use mgso4 probably. I say probably because there is good chance the sulfur requirement can be absorbed from the air but that will depend on your location.
 
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crankdoctor

Active Member
I had good runs with my rdwc and 321 I was chasing ro from store in flower the last time lol. Now I have a good ro setup and tap with dechlor. I’m wondering with straight ro if the 12-4=16 ph will run on the low side at first. Last runs everything settled after about 48hrs and I’d ph again and was good till it wouldn’t stay stable anymore. Do a change and repeat. That seems weird that less N in the Ro formula is still making plant get toxic. I would get a bit of tox with 321 some claw and blue almost black looking on leaves but I’d just back down a bit.
 
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Roguedawg

Well-Known Member
If you mix 3-2-1 and RO to the same EC, the ppm N, P, K etc is so close there is essentially no difference.
 
C

crankdoctor

Active Member
pizzax1 said:
Hey all,
Wondering if anyone has any tips for me. I've been growing beautiful flowers for the last year using automatic watering in coco/perlite and feeding Jacks 321. But I would always at some point get N toxicity (deep green, tips clawing) but no actual nute burn tips. I always keep my EC around 2.0-1.8 depending on the plant. This time around I bought the RO version with 12-5-16 see if I could avoid the N toxicity since the nitrogen is all around lower without using the two part system of Jacks 321. But here I am, 1 month in and one of my plants is showing tip clawing again. EC is around 1.9 right now in the res. I also use a micro mix every two weeks. The only other thing I use is Si. These are all autoflowers by the way, so I'm wondering if these girls are just too sensitive? How else could I reduce the nitrogen with a one part besides lowering the overall EC? Before I would just lower the Part B of CalNit. It's not bad and they outgrow it, but I would like to have one grow with ZERO issues.

Thanks for any tips.
Click to expand...
Jacks does have a new part A 0-12-26 so you can dial your nitrogen the way you like!
 
R

Roguedawg

Well-Known Member
Since this thread was started I have gone from 1.2-1.3EC to 1with the RO once I am multifeeding per day. Thats almost the old head formula 6/9, just less P, and a little less Ca. I am using well water with it.
 
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