Super Thrive

Discussion in 'Organics' started by SimpleSimon, Feb 15, 2009.

  1.  
    DubB83

    DubB83 Well-Known Member

    Agreed, just seems like someone likes to beat a dead horse.

    Again I ask you what I say that is misinformation? Please point that out to me so others reading this thread don't get duped.

    I don't feel that anything I have posted is incorrect, but I'm open to reason.

    This is not a pissing match Dr. Greenhorn.

    I'll remind you one more time this is an organics section and this product is not organic as per the OP. To get off topic and verbally attack me without addressing the topic or proving a point is a waste of posting space and a sign of immaturity.

    Again, I do not claim to be a weed baron or guru of any sort, but I know what is organic and what is not simply because I do my research on it.

    Really you need to chill out, this is supposed to be a positive growing environment and to each their own growing style. I believe we have the right to disagree.

    Speaking of organic buds, here is one I'm looking forward to tasting soon!
    [​IMG]
  2.  
    islandgrower

    islandgrower Active Member

    loool sounds like a personal problem :bigjoint:



    I use superthrive when i fert my plants, it doesn't make a huge difference it just keeps them healthy.
  3.  
    Titan4jah

    Titan4jah Well-Known Member


    ive read alot of dubs posts and i can say that he does in fact KNOW what hes taling about...and you mister redhorn sound like a :dunce:
    DubB83 likes this.
  4.  
    SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Well-Known Member

    Well i better get in on this, seems like there is some good action flying around.

    I would just like to stir the pot:

    You can't prove the SuperThrive isn't organic because they don't release the recipe. Simple as that. OH, and just because some "For Profit" organization is stamping some things organic and not others. Doesn't mean a thing.

    coffee is a great example of this. The USDA organic cert doesn't apply to LOTS of coffee that is in fact organic. The countries that grow that coffee can't get the pesticides, chem ferts, or herbicides, but because they don't pay into the USDA they arn't certifide. Then the ingnorant consumers says "oh its not organic becuase said profit organization says it isn't" You only belive what is told to you by profiterring third party.

    Okay go!
  5.  
    SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Well-Known Member

    knowone can prove that it is or isn't organic because they don't release the recipe.

    Keep arguing about it though, i find it amusing.
  6.  
    DubB83

    DubB83 Well-Known Member

    Do some research on it, it contains synthetic auxins. I assure you that you are confused a bit on this issue.

    Ok, lets play it from your point of view but flip it. I know that Thrive Alive is organic because, A. it is OMRI Listed and B. I know the ingredients because the company is honest enough to let the consumer know what their plants are about to consume. Unless there is a large OMRI conspiracy.

    Now this brings about the point of organics. Knowing where the ingredients come from. If it is important to you that your going organic then why not know everything about everything you are feeding the plants?

    Lets say in todays day and age an electronics manufacturing company cannot get UL Listing, ISO 9000 Compliance, and RoHs Certified then they will not be able to compete on the global market where those things are not only desired but needed to ensure quality and safety.

    Your argument that they simply chose not to get this certification done does not hold water as it would bring in more business than shun. Those brandings are a cost bust they work out to be investments in reality. We are not talking about 3rd world coffee beans we are talking about good old American fertilizers produced in California.

    As everyone already stated, plants all work the same. So we no there is no mistery juju juice ingredient that makes your plant explode that could be missed by all other companies, including one of the companies on the technological edge of nutrient advancement. Bottom line there is a specific list of general ingredients and the question is over how many are directly organically derived or organically based, or lab reproduced.

    Those are the concerns of an organic grower.
  7.  
    DubB83

    DubB83 Well-Known Member

    Here is a reference you might find interesting:


  8.  
    DubB83

    DubB83 Well-Known Member

    Some more independent input...

  9.  
    DubB83

    DubB83 Well-Known Member

    I also forgot to mention that OMRI is nonprofit BTW.

    http://www.omri.org/OMRI_who.html
  10.  
    StephyIsYourGod

    StephyIsYourGod Active Member

    what exactly happened when you used too much? ive been using superthrive lately, im not having too great of results.


    what did your babies look like when ovewhelmed with it?
  11.  
    SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Well-Known Member


    The seedlings cotyledons burnt off.

    The clones leaves grew erratically, and branching became very erratic.

    It really looks like a cross between a marijuana plant and a fern. That being said, it looks VERY healthy. I'll get a pic here in a day or two
  12.  
    SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Well-Known Member


    You would have to be pretty ignorant to think that just because a association has non profit status, means that the people sitting on that board arn't making a TON of money.
  13.  
    DubB83

    DubB83 Well-Known Member

    I'm just going to avoid this thread because your grasping at straws here trying to do what ever you want. What I have said is 100% accurate, who cares about their paycheck, every board of every nonprofit organization has a massive payroll... It must be some big money conspiracy must be your conclusion. Did you even read what I posted?:wall:

    Your the ignorant one here, enjoy the synthetic auxins.

    Without OMRI listing, organic farms cannot use this product. This is not an organic product. If it was really organic they would get listed and boost their sales. If a company could offer a product to a niche market to boost sales, they would, that is just smart marketing. It is relatively cheap to have your product tested to gain the OMRI seal.
    http://www.omri.org/OMRI_frequent.html#howmuch

    The organization survives on donations and the yearly cost to use the seal and be approved, with out question, for USDA Certified Organic farming. Convince me that they make millions charging a few hundred dollars a product for just a couple hundred products. If anything I feel that for the service they are doing they are cutting a good deal to companies.

    This is my last comment to you as I have provided more than enough information as to what it is and what it does and whether or not it is organic. Your questions have been answered and if you choose not to believe it then that is your problem.

    I say good day.
    :bigjoint:
  14.  
    zombie1334

    zombie1334 Well-Known Member

    Just because something isn't "Certified" Organic, doesn't mean that it isn't 100% organic. Have you ever been to a farmers market or even a local health food store? BMO nutrients aren't even "certified" organic, but I don't think you'll find many people that will call bullshit on them for not being 100% Organic. Getting "certified" is another way for Big Business to push local, independent farmers out of the way, plain and simple.

    And also, just because something is "Certified Organic" also doesn't mean that it actually is 100% Organic. The USDA Certified Organic standard is that any product that is atleast 95% organic can carry the seal of USDA Organic. Hrmm, last time I checked 95% isn't the same as 100%.

    There are a lot of reasons why "certifing" something organic isn't a good thing. And the reasons are very real, but I won't get into that diatribe on here.

    Back to SuperThrive, I also personally don't think that it is all-organic either. I believe that it has some harsh metals in it's mix. I've seen it do some fucked up shit to plants.

    Peace & Love.
  15.  
    Dr. Greenhorn

    Dr. Greenhorn Well-Known Member

    totally agree with you on that. can't be put any betterbongsmilie
  16.  
    DubB83

    DubB83 Well-Known Member

    True, there is no OMRI sticker on my mulch bin either, but that is a bit beyond the point. We are talking about a cheap way to gain confidence in your customer base or expand it. The company has been around for years and is obviously large enough to afford this small cost. If a small company wants to have their product evaluated it is a small investment, only a few hundred dollars, to get such a prestigious label on your bottle and they even market your product for you.

    Here is the cost table break down (extremely cheap):
    Table of Annual Supplier Fees
    Gross Sales for Applying Firm.........OMRI Review Fee..............OMRI Renewal Fee
    under $1 million...............................$390.................................$234
    under $5 million...............................$650.................................$390
    under $20 million............................$1300.................................$780
    over $20 million..............................$1950...............................$1170
    supplier does not wish to disclose......$1950...............................$1170

    There is a large difference in OMRI and USDA though. OMRI just makes it easier for a farmer to be USDA approved. I don't know what their standards have to do with OMRI's. Basically they are saying that nothing as complex as produce or any other end product can ever be 100% due to environmental factors.

    From the OMRI website:
    "About OMRI The Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI) is a national nonprofit organization that determines which input products are allowed for use in organic production and processing. OMRI Listed—or approved—products may be used on operations that are certified organic under the USDA National Organic Program. "

    "If I have a product successfully reviewed by OMRI, will it be certifier organic?

    No. Products approved by OMRI are not eligible to use the USDA Certified Organic Seal or make claims that they are certified organic.

    The reason lays in a basic understanding of two different types of certification offered in the organic industry. The first type is for the foods, fibers, and feeds. These products are eligible to be call "Certified Organic" and carry the USDA's seal for organic products. The second type is for the products used to grow or produce organic foods, feed, or fibers. They include substances such as fertilizers, pesticides, and other materials used on the farm or in the food processing facility. They are not eligible to carry the USDA seal or be called "certified organic." These types of products are either allowed or not allowed for use in organic agriculture or food processing.

    Because the job of determining whether the inputs are allowed can be a tough one, OMRI has dedicated itself to the task exclusively. This means that OMRI reviews and approves material inputs to organic agriculture to determine whether they are allowed under US organic rules. If they are, then OMRI assists with the promotion of those inputs by licensing our seal of approval, OMRI Listed, and includes them in our directory viewed and trusted by thousands of organic farmers and gardeners throughout North America. "


    "Why is OMRI not USDA accredited as an organic certifier?

    OMRI is unique. Although we are a certifier, we are not an organic food/fiber/feed certifier. Therefore, we are not eligible for accreditation by the USDA. Instead, OMRI has recently achieved ISO accreditation. The audit and accreditation was coincidentally done by the USDA (actually the Audit, Review and Compliance Division). USDA auditors confirmed that OMRI solely uses the National Organic Program Rule. See this recent press release.

    However, while ineligible for USDA organic certifier accreditation, the National Organic Program has recently acknowledged our vital role. A March 5th memo published on the NOP website explains this to the accredited certifiers and the public."


    I agree there, the synthetic auxins are supposedly the same as Agent Orange used in Veitnam. :EEK
  17.  
    zombie1334

    zombie1334 Well-Known Member

    There are many problems that are very real (like I said) that arise when talking about Certified Organic, be it by the USDA or OMRI. Just the basic principle behind being "certified organic" is absurd. It is a consumer ploy to get yuppies to feel good about what they buy. There is a HUGE green (consumer) "revolution" or what you want to call it, going on in America. They will buy & sell you any lifestyle, and they don't care how radical that lifestyle is. If you can put a name on it (Organic) then you can buy & sell it at extremely high costs. All organic products are EXTREMELY expensive to buy. You (the consumer) are paying for the certification to make yourself feel good, instead of doing research yourself and buying products that could be even better than the certified products (BMO nutrients as a case in point). What about small independent organic famers that are trying to make a living in a capitalist society that can't afford the "couple hundred bucks" to get their product OMRI approved? Large Multinational grocery stores will usually only buy products from the lowest bidder. No small independent organic famer can compete with large corporate organic farms, because they are growing so little at a time that they can't afford to lower their prices. Small farmers go out of business this way, all because "the consumer" wants to see a stupid, meaningless lable on their products. I have seen this happen first hand, and it is continuing to happen with small family fun farms.

    Another threat is that certification is reducing complex issues and regulations to a simple lable. This makes consumers more easily ignore the exact principles and practices behind organic farming, which makes the exact idea of "organic" a coined word open to manipulation. Organic farming is an issue that most American's should face, but instead they want to see a lable. No lable? No sale! More family run farms go out of business, even though they could be growing the most delicious food you've ever tasted. It's basically reducing the idea/practice of self-sustainabilty, community, & respect for our Mother (Earth) into consumerist, capitalist jargon that is doing more harm than good. Consumerism and wastefulness is not something to be applauded (but that's another topic in itself, as well haha).

    Peace & Love.
  18.  
    Dr. Greenhorn

    Dr. Greenhorn Well-Known Member

    this FARMER says you are 100 percent correct on that point! consumers are easily led to believe what they read on a label, when its just that, a label.farmers around the world who really care about what they produce but don't give in to the big businesses get screwed by this.just my opinion anyway.
  19.  
    StephyIsYourGod

    StephyIsYourGod Active Member



    thank you very much sweetheart.
    ill be looking for the pic.

    im definatly putting less on my babies next time.

    =]

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