super soil vs. high brix soil. Whats the difference??

Hey guys. Big time researcher here. I wanted to see what you guys thought of the whole super soil recipe vs. the high brix soil.
I have no idea whats the difference?
my super soil recipe is this : Base mix- 1part promix, 1part buckwheat hulls, 1part ewc
amendments- 1 cup kelp, 1cup fishbone meal, 1cup alfalfa meal
mineral base- 2 cups rock dust, 1cup dolomite lime, 1cup gypsum, 1cupgreensand
hard to get the recipe for high brix because of the lack of info out there but what I got is this: Heres the list of stuff!
Medium:
Vermicrop soil first time user
Worm Castings
Humisoil
Alfalfa Meal
Azomoite
Perlite
Calcium mix:
Rock Phosphate
Gypsuim
Lime
Compost tea:
humisoil
EWC
molasiss
Azomite
This was copied from the thread, "high brix method"
What is the difference? what would you do different with the soil?
imo the high brix soil is just a hybrid of the super soil. Hope to get the experts in here and hash this out!

amnesiahaze15 said:

Hey guys. Big time researcher here. I wanted to see what you guys thought of the whole super soil recipe vs. the high brix soil.
I have no idea whats the difference?
my super soil recipe is this : Base mix- 1part promix, 1part buckwheat hulls, 1part ewc
amendments- 1 cup kelp, 1cup fishbone meal, 1cup alfalfa meal
mineral base- 2 cups rock dust, 1cup dolomite lime, 1cup gypsum, 1cupgreensand
hard to get the recipe for high brix because of the lack of info out there but what I got is this: Heres the list of stuff!
Medium:
Vermicrop soil first time user
Worm Castings
Humisoil
Alfalfa Meal
Azomoite
Perlite
Calcium mix:
Rock Phosphate
Gypsuim
Lime
Compost tea:
humisoil
EWC
molasiss
Azomite
This was copied from the thread, "high brix method"
What is the difference? what would you do different with the soil?
imo the high brix soil is just a hybrid of the super soil. Hope to get the experts in here and hash this out!

Click to expand...

i'm confused, how do you add molasses to the soil mix without it making a huge mess? is there a molasses meal i'm not aware of?
I think with the second mix, you're making it too complicated, if you want/need high brix, use molasses in your teas, just be careful to use only blackstrap, and like EVERYTHING a lil is better than a lot.
your first mix is needing another nitrogen amendment in my opinion. Maybe rabbit manure, bat guano, alpaca or llama manure if you can get it. Plus you don't say how much soil you are making, so it's impossible to tell you if a cup of anything is enough or too much, (a cup of lime and a cup of gypsum is a LOT)

I think the most important thing to do when constructing a soil is to find out what each element does, whether it's alkaline or acidic, and mixing the right proportions accordingly. I believe I made the soil of my last batch too alkaline because I simply added ingredients without really understanding what they were doing to the ph levels of the soil.

For instance, everyone includes Lime in their list, but it's actually highly alkaline, should probably be only used in extremely trace amounts, and should be heavily mediated with acidic components like humic and fulvic acid since MJ prefers low ph.

I've recently spent an absurd amount of money on soil substrates, just stupid amounts. I'm going to be growing a wide variety of plants indoors, from trees to shrubs to citrus to succulents. I'm kind of entering into the phase where I have to memorize every ingredient and it's aspects and then the next phase that's just beggining will be the experimentation of what various components create the absolute most ideal marijuana soil, at least in my climate.

I'm probably going to favor something mostly using sterile medium that is fed through organic teas rather than mixing organic ingredients into the mix, though. The science behind that method is very compelling.

typically High brix soil is tested using a weak acid soil test, and then amended specifically to ratios that enable high brix growing. Typcially High Brix soil is roughly weak in the NPK area, but high in Calcium and minerals. High brix growing isn't organic though, and uses both organic and synthetic means of achieving ultimate plant health. It also requires foliar feeding.

Super soil generally isn't built with lab tests analysis and also generally is high in NPK where high brix soil is usually at the bear minimum or plain. Think of super soil as hot, and high brix soil as plain.

There is a lot more to it, but this is pretty much the difference. I generally use a High Brix focus on my grows, but build my soil more blindly like a super soil, but with high brix ratios in mind and generally heavy on calcium, low in nitrogen, and potassium which will counteract a high brix soil.

brix is sugars / carbs. Super soil is a water only soil recipe developed by Subcool.

hyroot said:

brix is sugars / carbs. Super soil is a water only soil recipe developed by Subcool.

Click to expand...

And that is about all anyone needs to know about either lol!

Actually he was asking about high brix soil, not what brix was... there is a difference in soil type for high brix geared growing. As far as I am aware of, the only commercially available soil suitable for high brix growing is Promix HP and then is amended with certain ratios of rock powders, colloidal phosphate, with very low NPK high Ca, 20:1 Carbon/nitrogen ratios and other ratios that are key for high brix results in plants (elevated sugar levels, increase pest resistance, better terp profile, and many other things).

I have grown aimed towards high brix and overall, the product is very very smooth, has a very deep and long lasting flavor, gives more of a sativa type feel to the high very clear, you don't get adapted to the strain quickly and can smoke the same strain for months, not needing to increase dosage. The flavor profile is amazing, almost like comparing a boxed wine to a premium wine..

To get high brix, you can't just use any soil amendments and subcools recipie, even though I have used it, does not get you into the high brix realm of plant health. It will grow dank, don't get me wrong, but when aimed for high brix, its kind of a whole new realm to the growing technique..


A brix of 12 is supposed to indicate good plant health
A brix of 15+ is superior quality (leaf posture will be in upward angle, leaves will develop a waxy shine to them, stems will exhibit a neon green glow to them as well as new growth)

Most hydro growers will usually peak at around a brix of 10
Most organic and supersoil growers may peak around a brix of 8-14 on extreme measures..
High brix geared soil will take you upwards of 25 and above...highest I hit was 24 and currently my plants are between 15-21

Icemud420 said:

Actually he was asking about high brix soil, not what brix was... there is a difference in soil type for high brix geared growing. As far as I am aware of, the only commercially available soil suitable for high brix growing is Promix HP and then is amended with certain ratios of rock powders, colloidal phosphate, with very low NPK high Ca, 20:1 Carbon/nitrogen ratios and other ratios that are key for high brix results in plants (elevated sugar levels, increase pest resistance, better terp profile, and many other things).

I have grown aimed towards high brix and overall, the product is very very smooth, has a very deep and long lasting flavor, gives more of a sativa type feel to the high very clear, you don't get adapted to the strain quickly and can smoke the same strain for months, not needing to increase dosage. The flavor profile is amazing, almost like comparing a boxed wine to a premium wine..

To get high brix, you can't just use any soil amendments and subcools recipie, even though I have used it, does not get you into the high brix realm of plant health. It will grow dank, don't get me wrong, but when aimed for high brix, its kind of a whole new realm to the growing technique..


A brix of 12 is supposed to indicate good plant health
A brix of 15+ is superior quality (leaf posture will be in upward angle, leaves will develop a waxy shine to them, stems will exhibit a neon green glow to them as well as new growth)

Most hydro growers will usually peak at around a brix of 10
Most organic and supersoil growers may peak around a brix of 8-14 on extreme measures..
High brix geared soil will take you upwards of 25 and above...highest I hit was 24 and currently my plants are between 15-21

Click to expand...

You can increase brix levels with any soil. Water with molasses and /or kelp, and /or seed sprout teas. Increase the sugar uptake and improve terpene production. Terpenes are the oils which have to do with smell and flavor. Pro mix is just peat moss, perlite and lime. Nothing special.. High brix will have better flavor than low brix. You can measure with a brix meter if you want. Every true organic grower should have high brix soil / plant with the various teas regardless of recipe.

Icemud, if you don't mind me asking, how do you amend your soil to achieve your aim of high brix? I've just started reading about brix.

I thought high Brix is measuring the sugars in the leafs....never heard of high Brix soil

For those of you that don't know spurr, he is a professional in the field. This is an excerpt from his response to brix testing:

What I dislike is to see people using brix as a way to trouble shoot unhealthy plants, e.g. "the brix for this plant is 5, help, how to get it above 10?" Using brix in such as way is akin to treating a symptom and not the cause. The brix can be above 10 and still have an unhealthy plant.

I know a handful of large scale farmers (cannabis and food crops, multiple acres) that have tested using brix measurement over many seasons, logging data and looking for trend lines over many years, and all of them have stopped doing so, telling me brix didn't provide them worthwhile data (due to the reasons I mention). Now they all use tissue mineral assays.

While it may have benefit in some applications, imo it's getting way too much lip service.

P-

nate9229 said:

Icemud, if you don't mind me asking, how do you amend your soil to achieve your aim of high brix? I've just started reading about brix.

Click to expand...

Base Mix
Promix
volcanic pumice/perlite 50/50 blend
worm castings

Amendments:
fish bone meal
crab shell meal
azomite
calcium carbonate
soft rock phosphate
gypsum
lava sand
greensand
epsom salt

I'm not going to share my ratios because they are still being adjusted to my liking, but II try to get my ratios similar to this. For high brix levels in plants...you want to minimize N and K in the soil a lot, no guano's except for possibly a 1x month drench. High nitrogen in the soil is counterproductive to raising brix levels.

Also the use of high calcium and phosphate foliar feeding is essential. the foliar I use is a 4-15-5 with 10% calcium in the form of nitrate for veg, and a 2-18-.1 for flowering with a ammonical nitrogen source along with yucca extract for sticker spreader, and carboload for assisting absorbtion through leaves. The only other thing I typically add is cold pressed seaweed.


60–70% Ca, 10–20% Mg, 3–5% K, 1% Na, 10–15 H, 2–4% other cations

DESIRED DESIRED LAB Soil Index
UNIT RATIO LEVEL RESULTS

HUMUS 30-40 25
NITRATES lbs. / Acre 40 70
AMMONIA lbs. / Acre 40 18
PHOSPHORUS lbs. / Acre 1P:1K 174 800 1.56 : 1 P to K Ratio
POTASSIUM lbs. / Acre 167 513
CALCIUM lbs. / Acre 7 Ca : 1 Mg 3000 743 5.12 : 1 Ca to Mg Ratio
MAGNESIUM lbs. / Acre 429 145
SODIUM PPM <35 2 Very Low
ERGS mS / Centimeter 200 266
ORP 28 27
pH 6.5 7.0
COPPER PPM 0.8-2.5 0.5 Low
IRON PPM 10-25 10.2 Medium
ZINC PPM 1-6 7.8 Very High
MANGANESE PPM 8-30 1.2 Very Low
BORON PPM 0.8-1.2 Not Tested
SULFUR PPM 30 Not Tested
ORGANIC MATTER % 4% Not Tested
FORMAZAN PPM 600 Not Tested

Icemud420 said:

Base Mix
Promix
volcanic pumice/perlite 50/50 blend
worm castings

Amendments:
fish bone meal
crab shell meal
azomite
calcium carbonate
soft rock phosphate
gypsum
lava sand
greensand
epsom salt

I'm not going to share my ratios because they are still being adjusted to my liking, but II try to get my ratios similar to this. For high brix levels in plants...you want to minimize N and K in the soil a lot, no guano's except for possibly a 1x month drench. High nitrogen in the soil is counterproductive to raising brix levels.

Also the use of high calcium and phosphate foliar feeding is essential. the foliar I use is a 4-15-5 with 10% calcium in the form of nitrate for veg, and a 2-18-.1 for flowering with a ammonical nitrogen source along with yucca extract for sticker spreader, and carboload for assisting absorbtion through leaves. The only other thing I typically add is cold pressed seaweed.


60–70% Ca, 10–20% Mg, 3–5% K, 1% Na, 10–15 H, 2–4% other cations

DESIRED DESIRED LAB Soil Index
UNIT RATIO LEVEL RESULTS

HUMUS 30-40 25
NITRATES lbs. / Acre 40 70
AMMONIA lbs. / Acre 40 18
PHOSPHORUS lbs. / Acre 1P:1K 174 800 1.56 : 1 P to K Ratio
POTASSIUM lbs. / Acre 167 513
CALCIUM lbs. / Acre 7 Ca : 1 Mg 3000 743 5.12 : 1 Ca to Mg Ratio
MAGNESIUM lbs. / Acre 429 145
SODIUM PPM <35 2 Very Low
ERGS mS / Centimeter 200 266
ORP 28 27
pH 6.5 7.0
COPPER PPM 0.8-2.5 0.5 Low
IRON PPM 10-25 10.2 Medium
ZINC PPM 1-6 7.8 Very High
MANGANESE PPM 8-30 1.2 Very Low
BORON PPM 0.8-1.2 Not Tested
SULFUR PPM 30 Not Tested
ORGANIC MATTER % 4% Not Tested
FORMAZAN PPM 600 Not Tested

Click to expand...

so where is the brix sugar coming from in your mix? Green sand is the only one that appears can do so. But green sand takes at least 2 years to break down so I doubt its coming from that. For brix. You would have higher potassium / carbs / and sugars. So that doesn't make sense. Again brix is sugars. So you need something that produces sugas / carbs to promote higher brix.. Or if your worm castings / compost are homemade then you could up the potassium there too.

ICEMUD THANK YOU. I see you have some very detailed information on cultivation. Im glad to meet you. Thank you all for your information. Hope to keep it going.

lots of people have high brix plants,they just do not test for it...

it's an easy thing to do.

http://home.roadrunner.com/~krisjohnson/Garden/HiBrix.htm
^^just some info.

hyroot said:

so where is the brix sugar coming from in your mix? Green sand is the only one that appears can do so. But green sand takes at least 2 years to break down so I doubt its coming from that. For brix. You would have higher potassium / carbs / and sugars. So that doesn't make sense. Again brix is sugars. So you need something that produces sugas / carbs to promote higher brix.. Or if your worm castings / compost are homemade then you could up the potassium there too.

Click to expand...

Lemme go back into my old research and see if I can find a answer for you. May take me time digging through hundreds of saved pdf files and bookmarks.. basically there isn't anything in the soil mix that feed sugar to the plant, but its making sure the soil ratios are right for the plants system to function properly. Kind of like taking a race car to the shop to get the timing fixed and tuned up and such... once the whole system works better together, then the car produces better energy...

And with high brix, the delivery of nutrients by foliar feediing which are high in P and Ca...Since P is like a "semi truck" within the plant, foliar feeding it to the leaves allows the p to carry other nutrients up and down within the plant. Then by adding Ca, which is one of the most abundant macronutrients in plant cells, directly to the leaves iit allows for easier plant process to occur... So when the plant/"racecar" is operating at full capacity (high brix soil) by adding the use of the right foliar feedings its like adding a supercharger to a finely tuned engine...

This is the best I can explain it without going back through my research...its been about 2-3 years since I dived into studying all this so the details aren't quite fresh in my mind...

I will try to find a more "acceptable" answer with some sources so I don't get called a shill or anything...LOL..

Hope this helps though.

This was a great read! @Icemud420 care to share your foliar recipe? I tried to reverse engineer Doc Bud's Brix spray, but then I also add my 2 cents to add in the calcium too, but perhaps my recipe is still not right so I'd like to compare it to yours.



I don't add Epsom to it anymore, but every once in a while I toss in 5ppm of triacontanol which grows a lot more side branches. Oh, I also keep the fish:molasses ratio at 1:1 now too. FWIW, Neptune's Harvest is Fish Hydrolysate. Also, I later learned that the N is represented as soluble and insoluble so the N numbers are wrong.

If your microbes are in check you can throw about anything at them foliar, even straight saltwater. That part of "high brix" alot of people miss. The microbes love the minerals more than the plants do. Thats also what allows you to run mild on the nitrogen and get those metabolites fucking going. Keep on mind youre effectively changing the environment right down to the roots perceiving a change in soil and root exudates.

Side note I also believe Brix, as a numeric taken from a refractometer is a misleading measurement, but referring to it in general as a level of sweetness in the plant, Cannabis was traditionally high brix going back as far as I can remember. The npk clowns really ruined the standard. Actually OG is better with lower sugar levels, i think that's where the knowledge gap was created,when OG was great from bottled Monsanto crap. Now everyone thinks all strains suck. No.. Its your bottled crap. I grow "high brix" aka medical grade from bagseed and stuff like Jungle Boys is a fucking joke in comparison.

So many variables that can affect brix levels its nothing I really worry about if the plant wants it it will create it.

All I know is bud tastes 10x better after goin organic and watering with molasses. Attention to minerals took the taste to another level. No clue if it’s Brix related or not, but if these nugs taste any better I’ll just start eating off branches!