Study: Legalizing Pot Won't Hinder Mexican Cartels

MacGuyver4.2.0

Well-Known Member
Study: Legalizing pot won't hinder Mexican cartels
Researchers find that Calif. residents prefer to grow their own marijuana


SANTA CRUZ, California — Mexico's drug traffickers are likely to lose customers in America's largest pot consuming state if California legalizes marijuana, but they won't lose much money overall because California's residents already prefer to grow their own, according to a study released Tuesday.
That means the proposal on the state's November ballot to legalize marijuana also will do little to quell the drug gangs' violent and sophisticated organizations that generate billions of dollars a year, according to the study by the nonpartisan RAND Drug Policy Research Center.
Californians, who make up one-seventh of the U.S. marijuana market, already are farming marijuana at a much higher rate than in neighboring states and tend to buy domestic rather than smuggled marijuana, the study found.

California voters will decide next month whether to legalize and tax their own recreational use of marijuana. The measure is closely watched in Mexico, where more than 28,000 people have died in drug violence since Mexico's President Felipe Calderon launched his crackdown on organized crime in late 2006. Both Calderon and President Barack Obama agree the vast profits cartels collect in the U.S. — estimated between $18 billion and $35 billion a year — fuel drug wars south of the border.
RAND found that less than $2 billion of those profits come from marijuana, though, and only about 3 percent of Mexican marijuana sales are in California.
Proponents of the proposition say they want to lower prison costs and find new revenue from marijuana taxes, and that the measure could reduce violence associated with the illegal drug trade in California and Mexico.
The Obama administration disagrees, and U.S. drug czar Gil Kerlikowske told The Associated Press that the new study backs them up.
"This report shows that despite the millions spent on marketing the idea, legalized marijuana won't reduce the revenue or violence generated by Mexican drug trafficking organizations," said Kerlikowske, head of the U.S. Office of National Drug Control Policy. "The bottom line is that increased access and availability to marijuana jeopardizes the health and safety of our citizens."
Some former law enforcement officials, however, said it's hard to imagine there wouldn't be major cartel profits at stake.
Most popular Updated 5 minutes ago 10/13/2010 3:21:58 AM +00:00 First trapped Chile miner reaches surface Microsoft issues its biggest-ever security fix Judge orders military to stop discharging gays Severed head of jet ski murder investigator sent to police Video shows teacher swear, toss chair "It's ridiculous to claim that ending prohibition won't have a big financial impact on these violent criminals' bottom lines," said Stephen Downing, a supporter of Prop. 19 and a former Los Angeles Police Department deputy chief of police.
But the RAND study concludes the only way to cut into the cartels' profits would be the unlikely scenario of legal marijuana growers taking over cartel distribution elsewhere in the U.S. Under that scenario, Mexican drug trafficking organizations, currently providing at least half the marijuana in the U.S., would lose roughly 20 percent of their total drug export revenues. Their remaining profits from more lucrative drugs like cocaine and heroin would continue to flow.
"If that happens, then legalization could reduce some of the Mexican drug violence in the long run," said Beau Kilmer, the study's lead author and co-director of the RAND Drug Policy Research Center.
But the study authors said they don't believe the federal government will stand idly by if home-grown smugglers were to capture the entire national market now held by Mexico-sourced marijuana.
"It would be difficult not to notice that the quantities produced and perhaps even taxed were vastly larger than what is needed to supply the California market alone," said the study.
But some say it's already beginning to happen.
"Smuggling in the U.S will be easy, as marijuana can be shipped to consumers in other states through our mail system, said economist John Carnevale, a drug policy expert who has worked with the U.S. Office of National Drug Control Policy for three administrations. "There is anecdotal information that this is already occurring."
Former San Jose, California, police chief Joseph McNamara says the proposed law's key goal isn't aimed at resolving Mexico's drug violence, and questioned RAND's assumptions about marijuana use and sales.
"Can a state facing a $19 billion dollar deficit casually pass up a chance to tax a product that escapes taxation only because it is illegal?" he asked.
 

mr2shim

Well-Known Member
Did you even read that article before you decided to post it? Looks like a bunch of fear mongering to me. I didn't read one factual reason as to why they made those accusations. Especially this one.
"The bottom line is that increased access and availability to marijuana jeopardizes the health and safety of our citizens."
So marijuana is dangerous to our health? How? That one person who died from marijuana overdose, wait. No one ever has. Drug Cartel's can't be stopped by simple legalization of marijuana. You could legalize every drug under the sun, that won't stop them from smuggling. Prop 19 isn't solely about stopping Cartel's, it's about stopping local law enforcement from knocking down doors with their little drug raids in the middle of the night. Prop 19 is about the future of the Country, not just California.

More useless "no to prop 19" banter.
 

bobhamm

Active Member
the same institute also did a study that showed that marijuana is not a "gateway" drug ... gee if the gov believes the study about prop 19 then they must believe that one also eh? :)
 

vradd

Active Member
no shit it wouldnt 'stop' drug cartels.... in general!

by legalizing pot we would stop the cartels from marketing HERE in california! were protecting OUR state. as we should be allowed. if other states want to stop the 'trafficking' to their states they can follow example, IF we can all show its an everyday product. it can be smoked... it can be industrialized for hemp products to make other products, it can be cooked with, it can be grown specially for mom/pop shops who want to be entreprenuers, hell it can appeal to folks like me who would just like to grow it and watch other people go gaga for the dankness of it... yea as a hobby.

if anyone believes by us soley legalizing it in CA will stop drug dealers in general needs a slap slap. in order to stop the cartels you need to attack the source, NOT its market. the cartels are well funded no doubt and it would be one hell of a blood bath but thats the only way your going to truley stop them.
 

mrFancyPlants

Well-Known Member
Didn't they also predict a huge price decrease if 19 passes? That price decrease will only happen in CA at first - then enterprising folks will move our surplus out of state and drive prices down elsewhere.

There are already folks making millions a month by moving CA med surplus out of state - prop 19 will only increase that flow.

They're right about CA not buying mec though - I haven't seen that shit since the mid 90's.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
I agree that prop 19 won't stop drug cartels. If they legalized all drugs everywhere tomorrow, the drug cartels would still exist. The mafia that was empowered by prohibition in the 30's still exists in some form. But they've been to a large extent marginalized. It took decades to weaken the mafia. But the fact remains that all the Al Capone types eventually died out. Some turned to legal businesses (like Vegas casinos), some turned to other forms of crime, some just lost their jobs. But it is indisputable that they were at the hight of their power, and were the biggest menace to society during prohibition.

Now we are once again in a similar situation. These drug cartels and the American gangs that associate with them are easily just as bad as Al Capone ever was. The reason they have so much power and so many people are dying is obviously drug prohibition. If we ended prohibition tomorrow these people won't just go away, but over time they will lose power and be marginalized. Marijuana is their #1 cash crop. Legalization marginalizes them. Prop 19 is the first step towards that process.

So no, prop 19 won't solve the drug cartel problem by itself. But it is the first step towards ending this problem.
 
Prop 19 is going to pass. Just more fear mongering to cater to those who justify making criminals out of people who smoke plant flowers
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
New news guys... Obamas cabinat came out this week and said even if cali legalizes they are still going to raid and make busts through the DEA... so there you go... even if it does pass, the fed govt will with hold federal funds until the prop is abolished.... i knew this was going to happen... plus in 2012 there will be a presidential election, so the same thing is going to happen then... any president wanting to be elected in this country will have to "attack" this legalization effort to stand a chance to get elected... so for all those big warehouse grows that people are talking about, yeah right... they are gonna get raided faster than a dunkin donuts, just so obama can show that he is against it... so they will take all these peoples property, money and throw them in jail. (the people runnin the warehouses) like R. Lee.... this is gonna be crazy... watching all these capitalists that are thinking they are gonna make a buck off MJ, and then wham... they are in federal prison.... i love it... thats what you get....LOL be careful what you wish for....
here is the link:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._calpot16.html
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
so any body growing and selling marijuana and paying taxes on it are self incriminating themselves under federal law.... hahaha... and the feds will put you in federal prison.... i knew this little prop 19 thing was way to good to be true... like the gov't is gonna stand by and let this shit fly... my point is, why would anybody pay taxes on MJ if that might get you prosecuted under federal law.... this debunks the "making it legal will help us with money because we can tax it" myth... because no one is gonna pay taxes on it 1. because you could get arrested and 2. its already underground so why would anybody want to give money to govt... so now that the money isnt gonna be there, and you stand to be federally prosecuted and the fact the arnold just signed the bill that anything under a ounce is a hundred dollar fine... what is really gonna change IF this passes??? seriously???
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
add the fact that there wont be tax dollars from prop 19 to being federally charged plus there is gonna be no decrease in cartels violence/strength and that arnold just signed the bill that anything under a ounce is a 100 dollar fine... wow, all the propaganda from the vote YES crowd is starting to show that it was all BS... nothing will change if prop 19 passes... people will not be able to run business because they will be federally charged... hence, no open market, no buying at the grocery store... everything will stay under ground like it is now, like it should be...
 

mr2shim

Well-Known Member
add the fact that there wont be tax dollars from prop 19 to being federally charged plus there is gonna be no decrease in cartels violence/strength and that arnold just signed the bill that anything under a ounce is a 100 dollar fine... wow, all the propaganda from the vote YES crowd is starting to show that it was all BS... nothing will change if prop 19 passes... people will not be able to run business because they will be federally charged... hence, no open market, no buying at the grocery store... everything will stay under ground like it is now, like it should be...
Same thing was said about 215 before it passed, nothing would change. Is this really all you have left? Fear based arguments? I think it's time you throw in the towel.
 

bobhamm

Active Member
My guess is that they will be looking at anything hinting of leaving cali, that means post office, ups, fed ex, uhaul etc... seeds included and they will come down so hard on those that it really chills the whole scene down.
 
Didn't know any californians still smoked mexican dirt weed, Probably why so many grow there own, A coffeecan full of ammonia weed just don't cut it here.
 

luvourmother

Active Member
New news guys... Obamas cabinat came out this week and said even if cali legalizes they are still going to raid and make busts through the DEA... so there you go... even if it does pass, the fed govt will with hold federal funds until the prop is abolished.... i knew this was going to happen... plus in 2012 there will be a presidential election, so the same thing is going to happen then... any president wanting to be elected in this country will have to "attack" this legalization effort to stand a chance to get elected... so for all those big warehouse grows that people are talking about, yeah right... they are gonna get raided faster than a dunkin donuts, just so obama can show that he is against it... so they will take all these peoples property, money and throw them in jail. (the people runnin the warehouses) like R. Lee.... this is gonna be crazy... watching all these capitalists that are thinking they are gonna make a buck off MJ, and then wham... they are in federal prison.... i love it... thats what you get....LOL be careful what you wish for....
here is the link:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._calpot16.html
more pointless speculation about what MIGHT happen after 19 passes, guess what dude? we don't know what will happen, this is ALL speculation!
what we can reasonably do is look at history and what we have learned from what has already happened.
alcohol prohibition ended at the state level, states started voting to re-legalize alcohol before the feds ended prohibition.
feds tried to fight back against medical marijuana in the late '90's when we legalize mmj, we were raided and harassed for a few years....it didn't work, we still have mmj and now 13 states (hopefully soon to be 16 states) have legalized mmj despite it conflicting with federal law (that's right medical marijuana is in direct conflict with the CSA).
the feds simply don't have the resources to fight back against the millions of people that will cultivate, buy and sell marijuana for recreational use. they lost with mmj and they will lose again with recreational legaliztion.

many of the posters here don't seem to be getting the big picture. why we are really legalizing recreational use in california....it is all for federal legalization, we need to end prohibition at the federal level. history has proven that the most effective way to do this is to legalize at the state level first. California led the way with mmj and we are planning on doing the same with recreational with ultimate goals of federal legalization.
 

mr2shim

Well-Known Member
many of the posters here don't seem to be getting the big picture. why we are really legalizing recreational use in california....it is all for federal legalization, we need to end prohibition at the federal level. history has proven that the most effective way to do this is to legalize at the state level first. California led the way with mmj and we are planning on doing the same with recreational with ultimate goals of federal legalization.
Sorry to edit your post, I gave you a + rep for it. One of the best things I've read but I wanted to directly comment on this part. I'm not sure if they just don't get it or are too concerned with their own selfish agenda to care. Either way they aren't helping the cause, the future of this Country and how it views Marijuana.

Just like alcohol prohibition, the ultimate goal is legalization on a federal level. You are completely right, states started then eventually the Fed gave in. They can't fight against the Country. It's only a matter of time before it happens. The wood has been laid and doused with gas, someone just needs to throw a match. Prop 19 is that match.

Civil liberties aren't won easy in this Country. History proves this time and time again, people have to die, go to jail, yell, shout, be murdered, assassinated for things to change, as long as the fight rages on we will eventually win.
 

ear74

Member
The funds needed for cartels to move hard drugs are received by selling marijuana.The needed cars,guns,and manpower is funded in majority by selling marijuana to U.S. customers.I will not claim that all cocaine would dissapear on American streets,but I would believe that the added manpower from funds gathered by taxing marijuana would help control our boarders and ports.Honestly,there is not one major city that you cannot find cocaine or ice.The sad fact is that cocaine and herorin is not grown here.This means that 100% of these drugs are crossing are boarders.Either our government allows the population to be users for money or control,or safety is a joke in this country.
 

nathenking

Well-Known Member
Same thing was said about 215 before it passed, nothing would change. Is this really all you have left? Fear based arguments? I think it's time you throw in the towel.
Im not arguing, im stating my opinion... you state yours, i state mine... thats it faux marley... watch this bill get shot down... lol..... see you at the polls with about 70 of my friends....hahahha
 
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