Stoner's views on Firearm rights.

It seems that a lot of people like to pick sides on this whole "right left" "liberal conservative" "donkey elephant" thing. Can't i just be a free thinking person?

Anybody else a member of both the NRA and NORML?

Just curious how other stoners feel about firearm rights?

I'd like to open up a rational discussion about firearms rights, and i'd like to hear from both sides!

Ill start: I believe that law abiding citizens not only have the right to bear arms, but that they have a responsibility to. If somebody goes postal near me, and threatens my life, or my family, or friends, or other citizens, it is my responsibility to prevent that. If somebody wants to come to my home or place of work to rob me, I can let them know they came to the wrong place. I could go on.
I think a lot of gun control supporters say that more people carrying a handgun everywhere leads to a more dangerous situation.
One of my favorite comedians, Bill Hicks, said "There is no connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun, and not shooting someone with it, and you'd be a fool and a communist to make one"
Sounds logical enough. But, in the real world situation of modern day America, there are too many people who disagree with the law for them to ever realistically get rid of all guns. (might i refer you to the cannabis situation. Been illegal since 1937, is it gone from America?) I think laws that prevent law abiding citizens just makes us defenseless to people who wont follow the law anyway. Criminals will have guns, nut jobs will have guns, cops will have guns. So should i.

So how do other people feel? lets get a rational discussion representing both sides of the gun control issue from the perspective the cannabis community.

While some may consider you are supporting two different camps, NRA and NORML, you are actually taking a consistent and logical approach. The underlying principle of personal liberty, is the same whether it's the right to own firearms or own your body, it is the same.

It is when a person supports one, NORML or NRA, while restricting others rights to belong to the one THEY don't like that they are failing to see what real liberty is. Liberty for me, requires I respect your liberty too.

Rob Roy said:

It is when a person supports one, NORML or NRA, while restricting others rights to belong to the one THEY don't like that they are failing to see what real liberty is. Liberty for me, requires I respect your liberty too.

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No person can restrict another's right to belong to any organization they wish to belong to. Simply disliking or disagreeing with an organization's objective doesn't mean anyone is keeping YOU from joining if you so desire.

Rob Roy said:

While some may consider you are supporting two different camps, NRA and NORML, you are actually taking a consistent and logical approach. The underlying principle of personal liberty, is the same whether it's the right to own firearms or own your body, it is the same.

It is when a person supports one, NORML or NRA, while restricting others rights to belong to the one THEY don't like that they are failing to see what real liberty is. Liberty for me, requires I respect your liberty too.

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I agree. The underlying idea behind both is "hey government, fuck off and let me live my life"

"There is no freedom without tolerance"
i always say. I leave my neighbors alone, and i expect the same.

Try to take my guns and I will shot you in the face Dick Cheney style...and then I will still go hug a tree

I'm a stoner, and a grower... I'm a peaceful hippie

but if you try to fuck with me - I always got my 9... always

i voted for Obama... but he's an idiot about guns ... (unless he's trying to stimulate the economy by threatening to take them away... gun sales are ridiculous, close to double average). IMO his view of guns is not bad enough to lose my vote... i think his gun stance just reflects how badly he wants peace... just misdirected.

i dont know who said it but "if you outlaw all the guns, only the outlaws have guns"...

ummm when did Obama say he was going to take your gun ?????

I like to smoke lots of dope, than go clean my guns. Hope that answers this question.

doobnVA said:

No person can restrict another's right to belong to any organization they wish to belong to. Simply disliking or disagreeing with an organization's objective doesn't mean anyone is keeping YOU from joining if you so desire.

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Okay. So do I have a "right" NOT to
join / participate if I do not support an organization or support it's goals?

Should there be harmful consequences to me if I decide not to join an organization?

Rob Roy said:

Okay. So do I have a "right" NOT to
join / participate if I do not support an organization or support it's goals?

Should there be harmful consequences to me if I decide not to join an organization?

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Of course you have a right NOT to participate, there are no laws stating that you MUST join NORML or the NRA, or even stating that you have to support their goals.

What are the harmful consequences of not joining an organization? I don't belong to NORML or the NRA, and nobody has shown up at my house threatening to beat me until I DO.

doobnVA said:

Of course you have a right NOT to participate, there are no laws stating that you MUST join NORML or the NRA, or even stating that you have to support their goals.

What are the harmful consequences of not joining an organization? I don't belong to NORML or the NRA, and nobody has shown up at my house threatening to beat me until I DO.

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I'm glad we agree there is a right
not to participate in some things.

Do you extend this right to all things or do you grant an exception to government? Government for the most part doesn't support my goals of living free and peaceful. Must I be made to participate in something I believe is harmful? Must I face consequences forced upon me for the "crime" of minding my own business?

Concerning people showing up at my house. Men with guns and badges have shown up. They stole from me, and have extorted from me. My "crime" was believing I owned my body and property. You can figure out the rest.

For me it isn't theory on some internet board, it's been very real. In a rational world (if we had one) people that leave others alone would be secure in the knowledge THEY will be left alone.
That is the only path to freedom.

I love my guns, even the black ones.

its funny soon as people start talking about being responsible gun owners the wingnuts start yelling DONT TAKE MY GUN...I'm like hey idiot we don't want to take your gun...we just don't want your kid to get your gun..or a robber to get your gun...Idiot showing up at a healthcare rally with a gun..WTF..why???? RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS....I saw in the news the other day this mom used to carry her gun sidearmed to her kids soccer match... had a big stick in town about it, but was still able to do it...guess what ..her husband shot her and then himself....RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS .... Columbine always shocks the crap out of me...I'm like damn these kids got those guns pretty damn easy....I'm a gun owner myself...heck soon as Bush let the assault weapons ban expire back in 04... I was at the gun store and a gun show that week looking for my new baby girl ( I call her tattat ), but we need RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS ...My family knows where daddy keeps his guns and what they do and if they ever touch it just to play I will beat the $hit out of them, but if someone comes in this house have fun with target practice.

Rob Roy said:

I'm glad we agree there is a right
not to participate in some things.

Do you extend this right to all things or do you grant an exception to government? Government for the most part doesn't support my goals of living free and peaceful. Must I be made to participate in something I believe is harmful? Must I face consequences forced upon me for the "crime" of minding my own business?

Concerning people showing up at my house. Men with guns and badges have shown up. They stole from me, and have extorted from me. My "crime" was believing I owned my body and property. You can figure out the rest.

For me it isn't theory on some internet board, it's been very real. In a rational world (if we had one) people that leave others alone would be secure in the knowledge THEY will be left alone.
That is the only path to freedom.

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There's a HUGE difference in choosing not to participate in an organization like the NRA, and not participating in something you are REQUIRED BY LAW to participate in (like paying taxes).

Like I said, there is no law requiring you to join the NRA or NORML, but there ARE laws that require you to pay taxes. That's just the way it is. Don't pay, and suffer the consequences. There are laws against murder, too. If you kill someone, you're breaking the law and should be punished, just as you should be punished for breaking ANY law.

Don't like the law? Then do something to change it.

Don't want to "participate" in following the law? Then you go to court, and possibly jail.

londonfog said:

its funny soon as people start talking about being responsible gun owners the wingnuts start yelling DONT TAKE MY GUN...I'm like hey idiot we don't want to take your gun...we just don't want your kid to get your gun..or a robber to get your gun...Idiot showing up at a healthcare rally with a gun..WTF..why???? RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS....I saw in the news the other day this mom used to carry her gun sidearmed to her kids soccer match... had a big stick in town about it, but was still able to do it...guess what ..her husband shot her and then himself....RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS .... Columbine always shocks the crap out of me...I'm like damn these kids got those guns pretty damn easy....I'm a gun owner myself...heck soon as Bush let the assault weapons ban expire back in 04... I was at the gun store and a gun show that week looking for my new baby girl ( I call her tattat ), but we need RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS ...My family knows where daddy keeps his guns and what they do and if they ever touch it just to play I will beat the $hit out of them, but if someone comes in this house have fun with target practice.

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LOL, exactly! Just because some people think the government should "regulate" things, doesn't mean we are advocating taking away gun rights! If you want to have a gun, FINE, just be responsible with it. The same idea holds true for many things, like DRIVING A CAR. Want to drive a car? FINE, but first you have to prove that you can do it - and if you fuck up bad enough, you lose your "right" to operate a vehicle. Kind of how you lose your right to own a firearm if you're convicted of a felony. It's like saying, "Hey, if you don't want to follow the rules, then you don't get to play." sorry!

the government "Regulates" business so that the large Corporations who provide contributions, kickbacks and bribes to congress members will not have to compete against the smaller more efficient businesses. Rarely is Regulation used to provide protection to the citizens. Case in point..The SEC, a regulatory agency that instead of doing its job for the last 20 years has done nothing and here we sit in a depression due to it. They couldn't find anything wrong with Bernie Madoff even though people were screaming about it for 8 years before hand. Nothing wrong with the giant banks naked short selling either, and their still isn't. BS.

doobnVA said:

There's a HUGE difference in choosing not to participate in an organization like the NRA, and not participating in something you are REQUIRED BY LAW to participate in (like paying taxes).

Like I said, there is no law requiring you to join the NRA or NORML, but there ARE laws that require you to pay taxes. That's just the way it is. Don't pay, and suffer the consequences. There are laws against murder, too. If you kill someone, you're breaking the law and should be punished, just as you should be punished for breaking ANY law.

Don't like the law? Then do something to change it.

Don't want to "participate" in following the law? Then you go to court, and possibly jail.

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There is no HUGE difference if my failing to participate does not cause another harm is there? The ONLY difference then would be a group of people calling themselves government wouldn't get to own my behavior or unjustly punish me for believing I own myself.

Laws are not inherently just or moral and quite often are flat out wrong. For instance slavery was once legal, but I would never have told a slave, "just be a good slave and some day this will be illegal and you can be free" or "hey slave work on changing the law" .

Simply offering "it's the law" as a justification for a stupid law is a circular argument. Obviously murder and harming people should have consequences. Should there be consequences to people that break stupid laws, but harm nobody?

Do you follow all stupid laws? That would be endorsing stupid behavior wouldn't it?

londonfog said:

its funny soon as people start talking about being responsible gun owners the wingnuts start yelling DONT TAKE MY GUN...I'm like hey idiot we don't want to take your gun...we just don't want your kid to get your gun..or a robber to get your gun...Idiot showing up at a healthcare rally with a gun..WTF..why???? RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS....I saw in the news the other day this mom used to carry her gun sidearmed to her kids soccer match... had a big stick in town about it, but was still able to do it...guess what ..her husband shot her and then himself....RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS .... Columbine always shocks the crap out of me...I'm like damn these kids got those guns pretty damn easy....I'm a gun owner myself...heck soon as Bush let the assault weapons ban expire back in 04... I was at the gun store and a gun show that week looking for my new baby girl ( I call her tattat ), but we need RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS ...My family knows where daddy keeps his guns and what they do and if they ever touch it just to play I will beat the $hit out of them, but if someone comes in this house have fun with target practice.

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You libs are cleaver

You don't have to take peoples guns when drugs + guns will definitely = jail time, regardless if the gun was used illegally.

Where were you when this idiotic - zero tolerance - legislation was being passed, voting Democrat?

im a hard core active democrate i own 5 guns noone will ever take my guns. now i dnt see any reason for anyone to own an assault riffle and i belive there should be restrictions in highly populated area's in the cities but i love my guns and noone is evan trying to take em away. guns gays and baby killers thats all they got on dems, i like my guns so do millions of other dems, i dnt care about gays gettn married dnt bother me shouldnt bother you, i dnt kill babies i am pro choice. good day

londonfog said:

its funny soon as people start talking about being responsible gun owners the wingnuts start yelling DONT TAKE MY GUN...I'm like hey idiot we don't want to take your gun...we just don't want your kid to get your gun..or a robber to get your gun...Idiot showing up at a healthcare rally with a gun..WTF..why???? RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS....I saw in the news the other day this mom used to carry her gun sidearmed to her kids soccer match... had a big stick in town about it, but was still able to do it...guess what ..her husband shot her and then himself....RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS .... Columbine always shocks the crap out of me...I'm like damn these kids got those guns pretty damn easy....I'm a gun owner myself...heck soon as Bush let the assault weapons ban expire back in 04... I was at the gun store and a gun show that week looking for my new baby girl ( I call her tattat ), but we need RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS ...My family knows where daddy keeps his guns and what they do and if they ever touch it just to play I will beat the $hit out of them, but if someone comes in this house have fun with target practice.

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Idiot showing up at a healthcare rally with a gun? If you mean Portsmouth NH..He's not an idiot, I know him, he's a pretty smart guy. He believes in liberty, for everybody. I might not have done what he did, but that doesn't make him stupid.

The irony is this person with a gun was protesting peacefully. He doesn't want to particpate in government administered healthcare. He doesn't believe he or you for that matter, should be forced to participate.

What will happen if he doesn't pay the fine for nonparticipation and excercising free will ? Your beloved GOVERNMENT MEN WITH GUNS will show up at his house to MAKE him pay or suffer consequences....ironic huh?

He's is advocating for freedom and choice and has a gun to protect those rights. Your boys have guns to TAKE those rights away.