Someone make sense of this...I've looked EVERYWHERE!!!

ramen86

Well-Known Member
I have been growing in a RDWC for a while now and I know a bit more than the average guy. I am heading into week 5 of flower and everything looks terrific, as far as the leaves, buds, stems, etc. (I can post pictures if needed). But there has been something that's been really bothering me lately and its the rising ppm. Everything had been going smooth up until about the 3rd week of flower when I decided to add A LOT of nutes because of how big my plants were getting. My buddy told me that the strain that he gave me (Sour Kush), loves nutrients and that I can keep feeding them because they have a high threshold for it. I use Dutchmaster Flower A&B as my base nutrients, and when I added them in week 3, it was about 200ml of each part. I know that sounds like kind of a lot, but my system holds almost 120 gallons of water, and adding that much nutrients raises the ppms about 600-700 each time. I know that when water levels go down and so do the ppms, that means they need more nutes, and that if the ppm rises, you're giving them too much. So that after week 3 I noticed that the ppms were rising day by day.

I thought a good way of solving the problem would be by letting my plants drink up as much water as they can so that when there was only about 1/4 of the water left in my system, I would pour in all that new water and dilute the hell out of it. Well, twice now I've done that. Both times I added all that water and the ppms were still almost 1000!! I'm talking about 90-100 gallons of water and its like nothing diluted!!

Don't get me wrong. The plants still look fantastic, but I know that this is not normal. I've been reading everywhere about how/why this could possibly be happening and I've found nothing. It almost seems like the plants are getting all this fresh water, but releasing so much nutes that I cant even add anymore. At this stage in flowering, I would like them to be at 1200-1300. I will give you guys a good idea of what nutes and how much I use when i go to add them in at this stage:

125ml(each) of Dutchmaster flower a&b
100ml of Ginormous
125ml of Silica Blast
100ml of Sweet Raw
3-4 scoops of Great White
4-5 scoops of BigUp Powder

One last thing. I know many people will tell me how ill advised it is that I NEVER fully change out my water, rather I just top them off, but that is how I've been doing it for years and I've never had problems. People on here will say "don't be lazy, just shop vac all that water out/get a pump and let it run out into a drain". Well, with the way my room is setup, and how enormous my plants are, that is nearly next to impossible. It's a miracle that I can even get the garden hose in there to put tap water in. Let me know if there is anything I can buy or do to completely cleanse my system(or plants) of locked up nutrients. Maybe H202? I don't know, I just want good advice from whoever can help without damaging my crop. Thanks!
 

Eurohigh

Active Member
My PPM always rises.. I just Add ph'd water.. And i change my rez every 7/10 days.. You should do this aswell you are at great change by not changing it that some nute levels are getting toxic. You cannot control this..

Yea and btw. dont use (Ive been growing for years bla bla) Have you grown the SAME plant for years?

Play it safe.. And change that rez..

Pics would do wonders...

Im not a fan of mixing many nutes.. I only use the GHE Flora series and a PK booster for late bloom.. No problems what so ever.. and i have really great results.. Keep it simple.

I got a Rdwc system aswell.. and with BIG plants.. I got no problem what so ever changing the rez.. I just take the control bucket and empty it a couple of times.. ofcourse the buckets that holds the plants are halv a inch higher than the control bucket..
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
My PPM always rises.. I just Add ph'd water.. And i change my rez every 7/10 days.. You should do this aswell you are at great change by not changing it that some nute levels are getting toxic. You cannot control this..

Yea and btw. dont use (Ive been growing for years bla bla) Have you grown the SAME plant for years?

Play it safe.. And change that rez..

Pics would do wonders...

Im not a fan of mixing many nutes.. I only use the GHE Flora series and a PK booster for late bloom.. No problems what so ever.. and i have really great results.. Keep it simple.

I got a Rdwc system aswell.. and with BIG plants.. I got no problem what so ever changing the rez.. I just take the control bucket and empty it a couple of times.. ofcourse the buckets that holds the plants are halv a inch higher than the control bucket..
The last four weeks of bloom my ppm rises from 1200 to 2000 plus....I pump it out and add new once a week....I haven't had any problems....as long as i don't get any tip burn i haven't worried about it.....every grow is like that for me....
 

ramen86

Well-Known Member
My PPM always rises.. I just Add ph'd water.. And i change my rez every 7/10 days.. You should do this aswell you are at great change by not changing it that some nute levels are getting toxic. You cannot control this..


I got a Rdwc system aswell.. and with BIG plants.. I got no problem what so ever changing the rez.. I just take the control bucket and empty it a couple of times.. ofcourse the buckets that holds the plants are halv a inch higher than the control bucket..

Alright, I have no clue what kind of RDWC you're using, but I'm using a UCXXL13 (8 site). You cannot physically "grab the control bucket and empty it", as it is attached by pvc piping to all the other buckets (it's also a 13 gallon bucket which weights almost 110lbs).


The last four weeks of bloom my ppm rises from 1200 to 2000 plus....I pump it out and add new once a week....I haven't had any problems....as long as i don't get any tip burn i haven't worried about it.....every grow is like that for me....

PLEASE, tell me what I need to do to purchase this pump and what other materials I would need. If there is something that exists that lets me put like a garden hose (at least 20ft long) attatch it to a pump so I can dump it into a drain, that would be incredible.


That is not the only factor.. Water evaporate aswell.. So kinda hard saying 100% that they drink more water than eat nutes..

Only thing that would cause my water to evaporate at those rates would be high heat temps. My room stays at around 82-83 degrees with lights on. Believe me when I tell you that these plants are drinking this water up. They can go through nearly 120 gallons in 3-4 days.


I appreciate the speedy responses. I attached some pictures so you guys can give input on how they look/whether or not they are going to be burned, and to give you guys a good idea how enormous they are and the little room that I have to work with. I think maybe I vegged for a little too long (4 weeks). Also keep in mind that these are only 8 buckets. These photos were taken during the dark period so pictures wouldn't be distorted with those HPS lines. Much thanks!

IMG_1300.jpgIMG_1301.jpgIMG_1302.jpgIMG_1303.jpgIMG_1304.jpgIMG_1305.jpgIMG_1306.jpgIMG_1309.jpg
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
Hello ramen86....

I use a little eco 185 pump that i got from the grow store...and i take the filter off and install one of the Oring fittings that come with the pump so it doesn't leak...

I rigged the pump near my control bucket with a tee so all i have to do is plug it in and it pumps my buckets out when ever i need to pump it out....I will look for some pics....

The pump only cost 16.00 and it comes with the extra fittings....I am not sure how you are rigged up....I hope this helps...........nitro..
 

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ramen86

Well-Known Member
Hello ramen86....

I use a little eco 185 pump that i got from the grow store...and i take the filter off and install one of the Oring fittings that come with the pump so it doesn't leak...

I rigged the pump near my control bucket with a tee so all i have to do is plug it in and it pumps my buckets out when ever i need to pump it out....I will look for some pics....

The pump only cost 16.00 and it comes with the extra fittings....I am not sure how you are rigged up....I hope this helps...........nitro..
I know all about those eco pumps, and let me say, THEY'RE GARBAGE. They can only work as submersible pumps. I know this because I have personally gone out and purchased over 15 of them in the past(eco-396, eco-633, eco-1056) from all sorts of different hydro stores and they all told me "these can be used as non-submersible pumps by simply taking off the filter". That is totally false. The funny thing is, the UC system I purchased from current culture actually came with 1 NON-submersible pump that works like a charm, and THAT would be what I needed to do that trick. I actually have a valve on the bottom of my epicenter that allows me to release water by a turn of a knob. But I cannot find non-submersible pumps ANYWHERE, and the brand I have now, I don't even know the name of (didn't come with a box or anything).

I actually went down to the grow store today and told one of the reps there about my ppm problem. He said that he owns an undercurrent system also, and NEVER empties out the water completely, rather just tops it off (like myself). He then began explaining to me I could go the route of trying to buy this non-submersible pump online and wait god knows how long for it to arrive in the mail, or purchase this stuff called "UC Roots", which according to him, would solve all my problems completely by using it at 1ml per gallon. I've never heard of the stuff at all, tell me what you guys think.
 

ricky6991

Well-Known Member
ok so i understand 100% what your getting at...

i have a 180 gallon rez in a normal ebb n flow (flood n drain) set up. 24 , 5 gallon buckets fill up and then drain back into the big rez. i need this large of a rez to completely fill all the buckets with nute water.

i have been hydro for a long time now and never clean rez until my plants finish the rotation (8-9week flower).

example with my rez an ppms, veg an 2 week flower, i run 14-1500 ppms(cal-mag,micro an bloom)... week 3 - 6 i run 17-1800ppm (added sweet to the mix), week 7 and 8 i run 19-2100ppms(added moab)...

i have ran that for ages now on this same strain (pineapple express). now, if they eat 40gallons worth and the ppms are at 1800 instead of 1400 then i just top off with tap water until its down to 1400 and then add nutes and tap water for the remaining gallons needed to fill up. always worked perfect for me.

until last 2 harvests. not sure whats been killing me but my current plants are burned to shit an the rez was reading 2900-3100 during week 5!!! i have added NO nutrients since then and now im almost finishing week 7. all ph'd tap water only and they are showing a 'p' defficiency along with all my burnt leaves. my ppms are still at 2600 after all that topping off with tap water. im just riding out my final weeks and washing entire system and im adding an air pump into every bucket in case water is being left inside them.

sorry for long confusing post but im have the very very same issue and let me tell you it gets worst so figure it out now... my enviroment is perfect temps 83 with co2 in sealed room, water temps at steady 63* with a chiller. ph always 5.6-5.8

since this current harvest got so bad i literally cut all my nutrient strengths in half. even though i ran this same nute on same strains without issues.
 

superstoner1

Well-Known Member
That is not the only factor.. Water evaporate aswell.. So kinda hard saying 100% that they drink more water than eat nutes..
That is a ridiculous statement. if there is evaporation is is so minimal as to be a non factor. Is is a known fact that if res level goes down and ppm goes up that the ppm is too high and plants are taking more water than nutes. Now temp of environment can play a role in how fast a plant takes the water but that is not evaporation.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
I know all about those eco pumps, and let me say, THEY'RE GARBAGE. They can only work as submersible pumps. I know this because I have personally gone out and purchased over 15 of them in the past(eco-396, eco-633, eco-1056) from all sorts of different hydro stores and they all told me "these can be used as non-submersible pumps by simply taking off the filter". That is totally false. The funny thing is, the UC system I purchased from current culture actually came with 1 NON-submersible pump that works like a charm, and THAT would be what I needed to do that trick. I actually have a valve on the bottom of my epicenter that allows me to release water by a turn of a knob. But I cannot find non-submersible pumps ANYWHERE, and the brand I have now, I don't even know the name of (didn't come with a box or anything).

I actually went down to the grow store today and told one of the reps there about my ppm problem. He said that he owns an undercurrent system also, and NEVER empties out the water completely, rather just tops it off (like myself). He then began explaining to me I could go the route of trying to buy this non-submersible pump online and wait god knows how long for it to arrive in the mail, or purchase this stuff called "UC Roots", which according to him, would solve all my problems completely by using it at 1ml per gallon. I've never heard of the stuff at all, tell me what you guys think.
Ok ramen86...

I haven't had any problems with my eco pumps, but all i use it for is to pump out 17 gallons out of my buckets when i change nutes....I do have a marine quality sump pump that a garden hose screws onto and it works real good for pumping a lot of water.......Your grow looks like it is doing well so i wish you the best of luck....
 

ramen86

Well-Known Member
Ok ramen86...

I haven't had any problems with my eco pumps, but all i use it for is to pump out 17 gallons out of my buckets when i change nutes....I do have a marine quality sump pump that a garden hose screws onto and it works real good for pumping a lot of water.......Your grow looks like it is doing well so i wish you the best of luck....
nitro, appreciate you taking time to let me know what you think of my grow and helping me out a bit. I know many people will tell me that they haven't had any problems with eco pumps, and that's only because they're using them "correctly", as submersible pumps. As non-submersible pumps, they're paper weights. I actually went to Home Depot and asked the guy in the plumbing section about my problem, and he suggested I get a 'Non-Submersible Self Priming Transfer Pump', like this http://www.amazon.com/Little-Giant-555103-Transfer-360GPH/dp/B000OL8MT6. I will try this out and let you guys know what happens and if it worked with my UCXXL13. Thanks again.
 

MJDeity

Well-Known Member
nitro, appreciate you taking time to let me know what you think of my grow and helping me out a bit. I know many people will tell me that they haven't had any problems with eco pumps, and that's only because they're using them "correctly", as submersible pumps. As non-submersible pumps, they're paper weights. I actually went to Home Depot and asked the guy in the plumbing section about my problem, and he suggested I get a 'Non-Submersible Self Priming Transfer Pump', like this http://www.amazon.com/Little-Giant-555103-Transfer-360GPH/dp/B000OL8MT6. I will try this out and let you guys know what happens and if it worked with my UCXXL13. Thanks again.

You may want to look into the pumps they make for Salt Water tanks. They are held a lot higher standard being that they have to run 24/7/365 for years. They have also been making them for a lot longer than hydro companies. They have to be reliable or you can lose thousands of dollars in fish and corals. They will not be cheap, but you get what you pay for. www.bulkreefsupply.com
 
http://www.amazon.com/SHURflo-4008-101-E65-Revolution-Water-Pump/dp/B002XM5G70/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378923216&sr=8-1&keywords=sureflo this pump rocks. It comes with barbe fittings to connect hose, and will dry prime like a beast. Just stick it the top and plug it in. You do need a 12v power supply, what i did was purchase a 12v cigarette lighter style converter from amazon for like 15 box and a cigarette lighter plug. The 6 amp will work fine unless you plan on. Pumping up several stories. Best part is you can turn this pump into camping shower and impress dirty neighbors with a simple shower head. Set it on theroofofthecar, and have it pump water from a pot or bucket. Happy smoking!
 

JonnyAppleSeed420

New Member
I know all about those eco pumps, and let me say, THEY'RE GARBAGE. They can only work as submersible pumps. I know this because I have personally gone out and purchased over 15 of them in the past(eco-396, eco-633, eco-1056) from all sorts of different hydro stores and they all told me "these can be used as non-submersible pumps by simply taking off the filter". That is totally false. The funny thing is, the UC system I purchased from current culture actually came with 1 NON-submersible pump that works like a charm, and THAT would be what I needed to do that trick. I actually have a valve on the bottom of my epicenter that allows me to release water by a turn of a knob. But I cannot find non-submersible pumps ANYWHERE, and the brand I have now, I don't even know the name of (didn't come with a box or anything).
I actually went down to the grow store today and told one of the reps there about my ppm problem. He said that he owns an undercurrent system also, and NEVER empties out the water completely, rather just tops it off (like myself). He then began explaining to me I could go the route of trying to buy this non-submersible pump online and wait god knows how long for it to arrive in the mail, or purchase this stuff called "UC Roots", which according to him, would solve all my problems completely by using it at 1ml per gallon. I've never heard of the stuff at all, tell me what you guys think.
I have never had a problem setting these pumps up externally? I don't recommend them as you can not replace parts but other than that they work great. JAS
 

ramen86

Well-Known Member
http://www.amazon.com/SHURflo-4008-101-E65-Revolution-Water-Pump/dp/B002XM5G70/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1378923216&sr=8-1&keywords=sureflo this pump rocks. It comes with barbe fittings to connect hose, and will dry prime like a beast. Just stick it the top and plug it in. You do need a 12v power supply, what i did was purchase a 12v cigarette lighter style converter from amazon for like 15 box and a cigarette lighter plug. The 6 amp will work fine unless you plan on. Pumping up several stories. Best part is you can turn this pump into camping shower and impress dirty neighbors with a simple shower head. Set it on theroofofthecar, and have it pump water from a pot or bucket. Happy smoking!

Appreciate the feedback. I actually started a new thread trying to plead with people about how to pump out my water through that drain valve and got NO responses. I went to the plumbing store and the guy there recommended something very similar to what you had a link for (http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/Little-Giant-365S-12-Volt-Non-Submersible-Self-Priming-Transfer-Pump-with-1-Power-Cord-555203/57115/Cat/1246). I've already purchased one and its on the way, hopefully I wont need any type of 12v attachments and whatnot, I just want a plug and go type of deal.


I have never had a problem setting these pumps up externally? I don't recommend them as you can not replace parts but other than that they work great. JAS

I am not trying to question your knowledge of how "great" these pumps work. But humor me, and send me a video or even a picture showing how you set up a submersible eco pump externally and got it to work, because like I said, I've purchased damn near 15 of them (all different types of models) and NONE of them worked. I wouldn't lie to you, and any rep that works in a hydro store (that doesn't just care about selling anything to anyone) should/would tell you that those pumps are NOT made for working externally.
 

LivingCanvas

Well-Known Member
As superstoner said, it's simple: They are drinking more than they are feeding. As water level decreases, nute concentration INCREASES; thus the rising PPMs. Lower the nute levels until they drink/feed at a similar rate.
 

ramen86

Well-Known Member
As superstoner said, it's simple: They are drinking more than they are feeding. As water level decreases, nute concentration INCREASES; thus the rising PPMs. Lower the nute levels until they drink/feed at a similar rate.
LivingCanvas, understood, decrease in water leads to an increase concentrated ppms. I know this. As I stated in original post though, I have 120 gallon system, so that when lets say, it's down to about only 20 gallons left and I go to put ONE HUNDRED gallons to fill it back up with JUST WATER, the ppms should decrease by at LEAST 600-700, as it always had before. NOW, I add all this water thinking it will dilute the concentrated nute water, but ppms change very minimally, almost getting me to think that all these nutes are being released by the plants roots back into my water maybe because I had been feeding them too much? I don't know...I appreciate the input though.
 
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