Soil Test Results

Wetdog said:

If you like, I'll post my recipe just to show you something simple and a bit different. Amendments and all. Works for me and my location, but no idea about anywhere else.

Click to expand...

I basically used the same stuff you did with minor differences like fish meal where you used bone meal. Also, my worm bin is taking longer to break down without the rabbit bedding. I collected leaves last fall and I am mostly using leaves and grass clippings for a base now...

You know, I thought about it long and hard and the last time that I was really happy with my results was when I used a bagged soil that was 60% compost pine bark. I thought that the "yellowing" was a N problem, so I screened all of the pine bark from the soil and everything went to shit real quick... I recently read that pine bark has a decent amount of Mn, which is what I am missing. Plus, it helps leach P from the soil. There is a local company that has composted pine bark by the trailer-load for $50 and I think that I am going to try it out. They call it "Black Mulch" but it is not the colored stuff. It's actually composted pine bark firs? I have my peat that has been sitting outside for about 2 months now.

Strudelheim said:

Seems that your test is

Click to expand...

Wetdog said:

You pretty much answered your own question here. First thing to realize is there is no such thing as a "Cannabis centric soil", just as there are no "cannabis specific nutes". Both are just made up marketing shit to sell stuff and provide debate for the tin foil hat crowd over which is best. "Organic" Cal/Mag seems to be a favorite here, for example.

I do one mix for everything, from Garlic, peppers, tomatos, to cannabis and the gardenia I got for my wife to remind her of the one we had in SoFl. It's pretty much the same mix I was taught in 1972 by older growers who traded their knowledge for my sweat labor mixing up batches by (their) eye. Pretty sure I could do it in my sleep. LOL The only thing that has changed is the organic amendments rather than the Jack's Classic.

There is zero compost in my mix. Thermal compost anyway, I do use a small amount of my own VC. I did try mushroom compost ...once... but never repeated that particular cluster fuck. The only recipe it bears a passing resemblance to would be LC's#1 from some years back and even that got tweaked to fit my style and environment.

There is a world of difference between growing in the ground and growing in containers and what works well in one doesn't mean it will work well in the other and vice versa. Translating soil studies (agriculture) to soiless container mixes (horticulture), is a good case in point.

Coot used to use dolomite lime in his mixes back when, then, really started bad mouthing it with the stigma still sticking today. Why? It was all based on a soil study on a soil that already was rich in Mg where the dolo caused problems. The soil in question was in the UP of Mich.Ok, worth noting if you're a farmer in the UP of Mich, but of zero relevance to a soiless container mix that has no Mg until you actually add some. That study simply did not apply to our mixes, but did end up selling a lot of oyster shell flour that Coot started touting. It's not bad stuff, but shipping rocks just doesn't make much sense.

Yow! I apologize for thr rant, but God save us from gurus. LOL

If you like, I'll post my recipe just to show you something simple and a bit different. Amendments and all. Works for me and my location, but no idea about anywhere else.

Wet

Click to expand...

This is a great Post. No need to apologize as I agree with 100% with your sentiment. Internet gurus have in my mind set the whole industry back as it is very hard for people getting into gardening to differentiate from what works and what is all bluster/marketing.

I ventured into the whole “organic” route for my cannabis garden for much of the reasons you state regarding fads and internet hero “science”.

I gravitated more towards coots mix because it was simple and the ingredients are readily available locally(this is key to me for any gardening)

And I definitely must admit that even though my veggie garden was doing just fine with a simple mix of peat, compost, kelp and whatever else I had in hand, I got visions of grandeur when it came to my pot garden.

WD if you don’t mind I’d love to see what you use for a mix, no worries if you don’t want to put it out there for the world to see. In today’s cannabis climate someone will probably copy it, name it something stupid and start selling all the materials as some holier than though world changing mix.

See how this run makes out, hopefully not a shitshow. Start fresh in couple months

Thanks for all the help guys.

Growitpondifarm said:

Thanks for all the help guys

Click to expand...

What help??? I got a lot more arguments and hatred for talking about this particular subject. I've given up on getting help online, even the person that acts like they know the most can mislead you... Hell, people don't like it when I get my soil tested. I have to stop and wonder who exactly is wrong... Do you want my honest opinion, do your own research and don't rely on people in these forums as much!!! Most people on here are trying to stroke their own ego and if they are wrong or give you bad advice, it don't affect them... Nobody cares about your garden as much as you do.

I'm curious, do the soil test results shared in this thread reflect exchangeable nutrient ions (base saturation/CEC/"standard soil test"), or what is carried in the soil solution (saturated paste report)?

For anyone having issues with their hand crafted soils, I would suggest having your irrigation water tested too, especially if it comes from a well. High sodium levels (which I'm seeing) will pose to be a problem over time in container plantings, as they are not leached from the rhizosphere like they are in garden beds.

If you are making your own composts/vermicomposts using highly sodic water, this will only compound the problem. I chased this problem myself for years before realizing that my well water (rather than my inputs) was responsible for the high sodium levels I was seeing in the myriad soil batches that I had tested.

I remember that ordeal well, till you got that very detailed (and expensive), water test that finally revealed the culprit.

IIRC, didn't a standard type water test not show the problem? Seems like you had more than one, but the last one served up the goods.

Wet

Wetdog said:

I remember that ordeal well, till you got that very detailed (and expensive), water test that finally revealed the culprit.

IIRC, didn't a standard type water test not show the problem? Seems like you had more than one, but the last one served up the goods.

Wet

Click to expand...

Howdy Wet'!

No, the water tests were the same, both comprehensive, expensive, and performed by the same company. The first I had done shortly after I bought and moved into the house that I currently live in. Mostly for shits-n-giggles, years before I started growing, and certainly before I knew anything about water quality. The second time was specifically to see if the water was the problem, and if the dissolved mineral content had varied at all. The difference was negligible, high levels of bicarbonate and sodium still there...

Growitpondifarm ... Here goes. This is for a bit over 2cf, ~18 gallons of mix/wheelbarrow full.

5gal homer buckets for rough measurements + eyeballing it.

6 to 7 gallons of expanded peat moss, not quite a cf. I run an entire bale through a 1/2" screen to expand the peat and git rid of lumps. Just makes it easier to work with and store in a 32gal garbage can.

Full to the brim bucket of perlite (5gals). Regular/horticultural grade, no 'extra large' or silly shit like that. This is the last thing added to the mix along with water.

3 gallons of pine bark fines/mulch. I like the Evergreen brand from Lowes with the smaller flakes, about fingernail size. But the mulch from HD is good also. No 'nuggets', or even mini nuggets. Used to use "fines", but can no longer locate them. The mulch is pretty close though.
2 gallons +/- of fresh, homemade vermicompost, added a bit later in the mixing.

I put the peat moss and pine bark in the wheelbarrow, dry and add 3 cups of pulverized dolomite lime (1 1/2cups/cf), and 1/2 to 1 cup of Greensand and dry mix till everything is dusted. It will turn a grayish color from the lime/greensand.

I always do this first to make sure the lime and greensand is well distributed before adding more ingredients. A 4 tined cultivator works well for the dry mixing.

I then add:
2cups Kelp meal
2+ cups Bone meal
1 cup neem/karanja meal
1 cup alfalfa meal
1 cup soy meal .... or 2 cups of either one, if you only have one available or some other N source.
1 cup gypsum
1 cup crustacean meal (or similar if you have it. If not, just skip it)
The 2 gallons of VC at any point here.

I'll dry mix all this till it looks well mixed, then the fun part, adding the perlite and getting the mix moistened.
A watering can comes in real handy along with a wetting agent like Ivory liquid or aloe juice and hot tap water. For this amount of mix it takes between 6 to 7 gallons of water to throughly wet it. I use a short handled square point shovel for this part. Make a depression in the mix, pour in some perlite and water it to cut down the dust and start mixing. Repeat until you've added all the perlite, adding more if necessary and water till the mix is thoroughly wet, but not soggy.

Transfer to something with drainage and let it cook. Turn it some every now and then if you feel like it. I don't but some do. For me, anything after 2 weeks is GTG, but I usually let it sit a bit longer. Whatever works best for you.

Wet

waktoo said:

I'm curious, do the soil test results shared in this thread reflect exchangeable nutrient ions (base saturation/CEC/"standard soil test"), or what is carried in the soil solution (saturated paste report)?

Click to expand...

Neither one, its new science and a new test. The "Soil Savvy" test looks for available nutrients and it accounts for "Lock-out", so it takes a lot of guess work out. It's not the 1984 Mehlich 3 test.

Wetdog said:

3 gallons of pine bark fines/mulch.

Click to expand...

Is there a specific reason why you use this???

Wetdog said:

Used to use "fines", but can no longer locate them.

Click to expand...

I don't know about where you live, but I have a local landscaping store that has composted pine bark firs for $57 a tractor bucket(yard?).

waktoo said:

. I chased this problem myself for years before realizing that my well water (rather than my inputs) was responsible for the high sodium levels I was seeing in the myriad soil batches that I had tested.

Click to expand...

I had high sodium and sulfur, but I really think that was from not washing the peat well enough. Currently, I have my peat in a compost bin with liming agents but next time I will use the aeration before I let it sit. I think that it helps the peat get fully saturated.

MustangStudFarm said:

Is there a specific reason why you use this???

Click to expand...

It's the way I was taught back in 1972. No reason was given then, just "add a big shovelful of the bark fines", while pointing at the bag. It has been a part of my mix ever since.

I did leave it out ... once ... on the advice of an internet "expert" and that particular batch was a disaster. I guess the old guy who taught me knew what he was talking about and the "expert" was full of shit. It was never omitted again.

That was all the reason I've ever needed.

Wet

By the way, I was not specifically talking about anyone that is still active on this forum when I was talking about misleading. I was close with GreaseMonkey but he kept swearing by both of his testicles that I didn't need to have my soil tested and he actually got irate when I did it.
Sure, the amount of phosphorus shown on the Mehlich 3 test only represents a small % of available P and you are basically "guessing" with the Mehlich 3 test. I get that. However, there is the new "soil savvy'' test that tests for available nutrients. It's supposed to be the closest thing that you can get to a tissue sample. I'm not getting my soil tested so that I can add a bunch of shit to it, I was using it more like a problem identifier. What was I doing wrong...

Wetdog said:

It's the way I was taught back in 1972. No reason was given then, just "add a big shovelful of the bark fines", while pointing at the bag. It has been a part of my mix ever since.

I did leave it out ... once ... on the advice of an internet "expert" and that particular batch was a disaster. I guess the old guy who taught me knew what he was talking about and the "expert" was full of shit. It was never omitted again.

That was all the reason I've ever needed.

Wet

Click to expand...

I have been reading articles from blueberry farmer using pine firs. I know that I am just repeating, but composted pine bark firs are supposed to be high in Mn and and helps the P leach away. Both are what I need in a big way! From my test results, I am always high in P and low in Mn. Everything has gone to shit since I stopped using it!!! It's been about a year now...

MustangStudFarm said:

I don't know about where you live, but I have a local landscaping store that has composted pine bark firs for $57 a tractor bucket(yard?).

Click to expand...

Locally, the pine bark mulch is $2.50 for a 2cf bag at both Lowes and HD.

Never tried the composted stuff, just the stuff from the sawmill. Again, because the old guy said "Use this".

Wet

Wetdog said:

Locally, the pine bark mulch is $2.50 for a 2cf bag at both Lowes and HD.

Never tried the composted stuff, just the stuff from the sawmill. Again, because the old guy said "Use this".

Wet

Click to expand...

That is regional and not in my state. I do see that HomeDepot has compost pine bark but it is not available here. The stuff from the landscaping store is imported. I am not sure where they get it from but the last time that I got compost, I asked for a test report and it was from Lincoln, Nebraska. Which is about 2 states away from me. Here is the description of the "black mulch". It is one of their most expensive composts @ $57. I used the "dark forests compost" before and it was only $37...

http://www.minickmaterials.com/mulch/
Made from decomposing fir bark, Black Mulch is used as an additive to soil to keep your plants healthy, and gives them a noticeably brighter appearance against its dark background.

MustangStudFarm said:

I had high sodium and sulfur, but I really think that was from not washing the peat well enough. Currently, I have my peat in a compost bin with liming agents but next time I will use the aeration before I let it sit. I think that it helps the peat get fully saturated.

Click to expand...

This is a new one for me. I have never heard of, or have washed peat moss and don't think I ever had high sodium or sulfur issues. At least, none that caused problems. It stays dry, expanded from the bale, till finally moistened when I add the perlite at the end of the mixing process.

It is fully saturated at the end using hot tap water and either Ivory liquid or aloe juice, whichever is closest to hand.

Is this something you came up with yourself or, something published? Because, this is kinda out of left field to me.

Wet

Not "compost", but pine bark as it comes from the barking machine when the logs first enter the mill. Fir bark is not the same as pine bark, two different trees.

There are literally hundreds of bags, outside, in the garden centers of HD or Lowes of pine bark. They come in Nuggets, Mini nuggets, and mulch, largest size to smallest. The smallest size is what you want, mulch. It will become compost over time in your mix.

Wet

MustangStudFarm said:

Neither one, its new science and a new test. The "Soil Savvy" test looks for available nutrients and it accounts for "Lock-out", so it takes a lot of guess work out. It's not the 1984 Mehlich 3 test.

Click to expand...

New science? New test? Accounts for "lock out"?

Could you provide a link that vindicates these claims? I can't find anything that supports such on their website...

While there are discrepancies between various testing methods, soil science/chemistry is pretty much set as far as how testing for available nutrient ions goes. There are only three phases to soil chemistry... the soil solution, the soil solid phase, and the gaseous phase. Soil tests reflect either what's contained on the soil colloid (CEC), or what's carried in the soil solution. What's carried in the soil solution has the most impact on how effectively plant roots adsorb nutrients in potted containers.

Get your water tested. That's what I wanted to tell you before you made hastily assumed presumptions about the help I was trying to provide over at GC several months ago.

Wetdog said:

This is a new one for me. I have never heard of, or have washed peat moss and don't think I ever had high sodium or sulfur issues. At least, none that caused problems. It stays dry, expanded from the bale, till finally moistened when I add the perlite at the end of the mixing process.

It is fully saturated at the end using hot tap water and either Ivory liquid or aloe juice, whichever is closest to hand.

Is this something you came up with yourself or, something published? Because, this is kinda out of left field to me.

Wet

Click to expand...

I don't know if you would call this published because it looks like the person is still researching it... This quote was at the bottom of the page.


https://learningandyearning.com/peat-moss-and-the-sustainable-garden
The Seed Starting Mix Dilemma
One area of gardening with which I am having a difficult time finding a suitable replacement for peat moss is in seed starting mix. When seeds are started in an indoor environment, they do best in a soilless, sterile mix which helps to minimize disease.

Peat moss is generally an important component of these mixes, whether homemade or store-bought. Coir, a fiber made from the husks of coconut shells, is now being used as an alternative to peat moss.

I have not had good success with these mixes; I find that the coir stunts my seedlings. As I research this product, I see very mixed reviews. While some have had success, other growers have been unhappy with the results of using coir.

In a study by Utah State University, sphagnum peat moss outperformed coir. I am learning that some low quality coir has a high sodium content while other manufacturers remove the sodium. Be sure to read reviews and ask questions for the specific product before purchasing.