Soaring Health Insurance Profits

Q1 Profits were up on average 31% in 2010 as compared to 2009 (which were already record profits) for 5 Major Insurance Companies - Humana, WellPoint, Aetna, UnitedHealth, and Cigna.

Premiums rose more quickly than the cost of care and a smaller portion of each dollar earned was spent on actual health services.

To all:

Please weigh in on duty to shareholders vs. duty to morality

Well I just posted a long and hefty dissertation in the 'leftist insanity' thread, Mr.KushMan is the name. I think it would illustrate my points clearly.

Peace

What's to talk about, this country keeps shoving fats, sodium, and high fructose corn syrup down their throat and somehow surprised that health-care costs are soaring through the roof

OP, I think you are possibly presenting a false dichotomy (asking the wrong questions in other words). I think the better question to ask is, why is there is such a lack of competitiveness in not only the insurance industry, but also the health/medical industry? I think the foundational system would be the first place I'd look for clues on how to fix such problems, not the industries themselves.

Why don't you look at how the federal reserve is bankrupting your country? Maybe if you figure that one out your country can be on par with reality.

Peace

ancap said:

OP, I think you are possibly presenting a false dichotomy (asking the wrong questions in other words). I think the better question to ask is, why is there is such a lack of competitiveness in not only the insurance industry, but also the health/medical industry? I think the foundational system would be the first place I'd look for clues on how to fix such problems, not the industries themselves.

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answer - Because our Congress has no respect for the Constitution and states rights.
Under ERISA, insurance companies cannot be sued for more than the cost of the claim. This trumped what states have on the books which said you could sue for "damages". What incentive do they have to pay out? If they loose the case they pay out only what they would have and that's if the person lives to see the claim money.

Parker said:

answer - Because our Congress has no respect for the Constitution and states rights.
Under ERISA, insurance companies cannot be sued for more than the cost of the claim. This trumped what states have on the books which said you could sue for "damages". What incentive do they have to pay out? If they loose the case they pay out only what they would have and that's if the person lives to see the claim money.

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I think you are on the right track, but I don't think the problems lie in just one regulation. Repealing specific laws and regulations to solve these problems is like clipping the top inch off a weed without paying any attention to the growing environment and root structure, and expecting the weed not to grow back. Cronyism is at the roots, the government is the soil.

Mr.KushMan said:

Why don't you look at how the federal reserve is bankrupting your country? Maybe if you figure that one out your country can be on par with reality.

Peace

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Not to mention they made more money in profits than all the EVIL GAS COMPANIES. Maybe we should do Windfall profits on them. The Fed is made up of private owners from many banks. The US Gov only has one guy, ONE. Now tell me who controls the money, you know the rise and fall of the dollar here?

OP: The bill passed is a joke. we need to open state borders so i can buy insurance in Cali if i so choose if i don't like one here in GA. Hospitals not Insurance is the culprit also. Doctors over charge there is no checks and balances. so the insurance companies have to charge more. matter of fact most made 4-6% profit on health care. again your barking up the wrong tree. Rubber maid makes more profit than they do. Don't get me wrong we need reform but this is a stupid idea of a bill. wasn't read and was WRITTEN BY A UNION. Not even the Congress had a say what went in it. It will goto a single payer (you know like EU and Canada). Not to mention and this is stupid they put higher tax's on medical device manufactures. Yep. That defibrillator at school, going to be taxed more, the pace maker for grandmas heart higher tax. Yep, going to bring cost down alright (sarcasm)

IMHO the fingre pointing at the Insurance companies as the BADGUY is more of the same ole," It's everyome elses responsibility but MY OWN". This as well as blaming the food industry for the Obese, unhealthy nature of Americans is to blame someone else for your own choices.
If you choose to to stuff high fructose corn syrup, fats, high sodium fast food or other such crap foods down your fatt gullets then you have no right to blame Insurance companies companies for the High profits they make from the disease your choices promote or the food industry for your unhealthy state of being.
This is the same attitude as exhibited in regards to many aspects of American life, it is always someone elses fault besides myself for the choices I make.
Stop eating High fat foods, stop drinking mountain dew, stop eating Doritos by the pallet. Cook some foods that are from scratch instead of Hambuger helper. Eat a fucking salad and some wholsome veggies that do not come out of a can.
Pizza is not a food group!!!!!!

Do you realize that some people simply don't have that option?

In reality the American political system has so heavily swayed subsidies to fast food and corn based products that you can't buy real vegetables for less than a meal at the burger joint, or a bottle of pop and bag of chips. It is a real problem that the top 30% that have it made, make people think its their fault.

Just think about it, Who Stands To Gain?

Corporate food manufacturers and health industry. Its their job to keep you unhealthy so they can continue to make money, just like any institution solely committed to profit. They need to keep the flow coming.

Peace

Mr.KushMan said:

Do you realize that some people simply don't have that option?

Just think about it, Who Stands To Gain?

Corporate food manufacturers and health industry. Its their job to keep you unhealthy so they can continue to make money, just like any institution solely committed to profit. They need to keep the flow coming.

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You got it Brother! cheers

are you kidding me?!?
you really are seriously trying to place the blame on others by implying it is cheaper to eat the dollar menu at mcdogalds or taco smells.
Bullshit!
It costs more to feed your family the dollar menu and I can prove it.
I have a family of 4, 2 teenage boys my wife and myself.
I buy meat on sale, vegetables in bulk, 25 lb bags of beans and rice and 50 lb bags of flour.
I buy much at costco in bulk including potatoes, butter, eggs, milk, lettuce and much, much more.

A typical dinner meal at Mcdogalds for my family would cost , "if we ever ate at that trash place" $17-$20. 3 burgers or sandwiches for each boy 2 each for me and my wife, 4 fries, 4 sodas
That comes out to $18 worth of trash food.

me cooking the meal from my shopping list
1 whole chicken," 4 1/2 lb at $.99 a LB"
8 potatoes, medium sized red potatoes mashed, fried or baked.
8 carrots, Medium sized steamed.
1 bowl of salad each, Letuce, tmoatoe, celery, onion.
4 glasses of milk
1 loaf of fresh bread
Chicken $4.50
potatoes $1
Carrots $.75
salad $3
Milk $1
Bread, $.50

With Power to cook, spices, butter and salad dressing the entire cost of this wholesome meal is appx $12. It is more food, than the dollar menu will buy and it is nutritious and not full of fat.

There are always leftovers which we take for lunch so we are getting a dinner and at least lunch for 1 person, generally 2 out of that $12
I can cook this way with Pork, beef, chicken, many different veggies, rice, beans and can do it in a crock pot without much effort at all.

So much for your Dollar menu!
Try blaming the fat of society on those who consume the fat because they are too lazy, too gluttonous or don't care enough to feed themselves or thier families a wholesome diet. I am busy as hell and find the time and make the effort to do so. .

Are you kidding me?

80% of the population on the earth live under $10 per day. The poverty situation in the US people live paycheck to paycheck and don't get the opportunity to buy 10 meals at one time, they really need to work the whole day to pay for their food in the evening. There is no way to justify your position. A head of broccoli costs roughly $1-$1.5/lb. A double cheeseburger at various locations cost $1. You can get 4 meals for less than $20, you can't buy groceries in the quantities your talking about for less than $75- $150.

There is no way you can blame anything on the oppressed masses of society. Being in those clouds atop your high chair must make your ability to see hazy at best.

EDIT: Oh, and not having to live on welfare I am sure you didn't know that prices fluctuate greatly on the weekends that people receive their cheques. It actually cost them more to live than the average citizen.

Peace

Mr.KushMan said:

Are you kidding me?

80% of the population on the earth live under $10 per day. The poverty situation in the US people live paycheck to paycheck and don't get the opportunity to buy 10 meals at one time, they really need to work the whole day to pay for their food in the evening. There is no way to justify your position. A head of broccoli costs roughly $1-$1.5/lb. A double cheeseburger at various locations cost $1. You can get 4 meals for less than $20, you can't buy groceries in the quantities your talking about for less than $75- $150.

There is no way you can blame anything on the oppressed masses of society. Being in those clouds atop your high chair must make your ability to see hazy at best.

EDIT: Oh, and not having to live on welfare I am sure you didn't know that prices fluctuate greatly on the weekends that people receive their cheques. It actually cost them more to live than the average citizen.

Peace

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We are not talking about 80% of the world as you say now are we. We are talking about Americans and fast food and unhealthy diets, Stay on track here pal!
Typical attitude from a typical leftist. I don't agree with your bullshit propaganda and so I am obviously a person of stature and wealth, a person atop his high horse. I am LOL @ U. So when ya gonna call me a racist or oppressor.
You are quite full of feces aren't you? Me atop, my high chair Uh huh uh huh... I am regular ken working my ass off to pay for what I get not Ken with his hand out looking to others to pay for my life and family. Not Ken blaming my fatfilled Mcdogalds diet on Oppression and bogeymen. What a crock of blame you spread about. It is quite funny that so many persons on the dole are able to feed their families a wholesome diet that does not include Dollar menu crap when according to you and your oppressed mentality they obviously cannot do such a thing.

My family lives paycheck to paycheck. You say we need to work the whole day to pay for the evening meal? If you work all day at minimum wage you come home with at least $ 50 after taxes. A head of broccoli $1.50 a lb there is 1 1/2 burgers at Mcdogalds. You don't want to see reality you want to feed yourself crap oppression burgers at mcdogalds and in your mind. It is your position that is not justified.
You try to tell me that people Have to live on welfare, BULLSHIT. people choose to live on welfare/
I choose not to live on welfare and so I work 2 jobs and cook and shop. We save and budget to be able to shop as we do. My wife also works 2 jobs, plus we do sidework. We work hard because we are not lazy and waiting for a handout or charity. We saved pennies for years to adopt our boys. We saved pennies for years to buy our home. We don't waste money on Mcdogalds bullshit, we save the money by eating at home and bag lunching it at work.

Its not about agreeing, if you actually read statistics like an informed citizen should you would see its not propaganda, its reality. I didn't say you were racist or an oppressor, you are using these tactics as a way to confuse the issue. I am not attacking you personally I am rejecting the way you conduct yourself by allowing the system in fail to remain intact.

WHO, UN, and IMF are all in consonance with my statements. If you didn't spend so much time defending your activities you would be able to see clearly.

Peace

EDIT: I said high chair, as in a baby being fed with a spoon.

kendothegreenwizard said:

We are not talking about 80% of the world as you say now are we. We are talking about Americans and fast food and unhealthy diets, Stay on track here pal!
Is america not part of the world? Do those statistics not allow a reasonable projection onto the population of the united states?

Typical attitude from a typical leftist. I don't agree with your bullshit propaganda and so I am obviously a person of stature and wealth, a person atop his high horse. I am LOL @ U. So when ya gonna call me a racist or oppressor.
You are quite full of feces aren't you? Me atop, my high chair Uh huh uh huh... I am regular ken working my ass off to pay for what I get not Ken with his hand out looking to others to pay for my life and family. Not Ken blaming my fatfilled Mcdogalds diet on Oppression and bogeymen. What a crock of blame you spread about. It is quite funny that so many persons on the dole are able to feed their families a wholesome diet that does not include Dollar menu crap when according to you and your oppressed mentality they obviously cannot do such a thing.
Oh, so many people can live a perfect life with fairies and rainbows, but at some point there is a shortage of delusion and people crash land with reality. If there are people or children starving, why is it appalling that people believe that they should be fed? 20,000 kids die every day from starvation, what if your kid was left with nothing because of war or genocide? Do you not wish that they were looked after when you were gone?

My family lives paycheck to paycheck. You say we need to work the whole day to pay for the evening meal? If you work all day at minimum wage you come home with at least $ 50 after taxes. A head of broccoli $1.50 a lb there is 1 1/2 burgers at Mcdogalds. You don't want to see reality you want to feed yourself crap oppression burgers at mcdogalds and in your mind. It is your position that is not justified.
After fuel, insurance, medicine, ect.ect. a persons wealth can be really worn thin.

You try to tell me that people Have to live on welfare, BULLSHIT. people choose to live on welfare/
I choose not to live on welfare and so I work 2 jobs and cook and shop. We save and budget to be able to shop as we do. My wife also works 2 jobs, plus we do sidework.
There is no way to deny, some people have shitty parents, some don't know how to read, some didn't finish highschool, some have disabilities that aren't covered by any form of government or private program. Some people do HAVE to live on welfare, by brother fell off a roof a few weeks ago and his boss was a schiester and didn't give him workers compensation, now on social assistance he has to move back home because he can't pay his bills. Well some people don't have a home to go to.

We work hard because we are not lazy and waiting for a handout or charity. We saved pennies for years to adopt our boys. We saved pennies for years to buy our home. We don't waste money on Mcdogalds bullshit, we save the money by eating at home and bag lunching it at work.

Like I said moral high ground. You don't want to accept that one day you could be in this position, it hurts you to think that people don't feel the need to look out for each other.

I see everyman as by brother, and every woman as my mother. When they need help and voice there distress, I want to be there to say, just hold your head up because this is only life.

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I hope you have a change of heart in this fight for life, I am not a leftist as I said, I am not even in the middle of the scale. Politics are corrupt, we can maintain production without poverty. We can allow freedom with out securitization. And mostly we can inspire happiness in the minds of all individuals.

Peace

Mr Kush. Do not get me wrong. I am a giver. I feed the homeless, I give much of my herb to the needy, I help seniors with free computer classes and spend time as a grandson to those without.
I do not feel that welfare is totally wrong as in the case of your brother who needs a helping hand for a short time. I disagree with welfare for life. Irefusse welfare because I am a stubborn cuss. I am 45% disabled and yet work until I am trashed. I think you and I probably have much in common and yet we should recognioze that we also disagree on other aspects.

wait til Czar Obamas plan kicks in premiums will be outragous and jobs will disappear faster then they do do under this administration. No company will be able to keep the current staffs with the rates they will be required to carry. Basically we have a socialist regime in place trying to force the people into taking what they want or be imprisoned if you refuse the forced welfare that is killing our country..November is the first step in real change then removal of czar Obama and repealing his anti american policies

kendothegreenwizard said:

Mr Kush. Do not get me wrong. I am a giver. I feed the homeless, I give much of my herb to the needy, I help seniors with free computer classes and spend time as a grandson to those without.
I do not feel that welfare is totally wrong as in the case of your brother who needs a helping hand for a short time. I disagree with welfare for life. Irefusse welfare because I am a stubborn cuss. I am 45% disabled and yet work until I am trashed. I think you and I probably have much in common and yet we should recognioze that we also disagree on other aspects.

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I appreciate the compromise. But I must ask, if you can see the hypocrisy, maybe you still can't, why do you still blindly engage?

Peace

Mr.KushMan said:

I appreciate the compromise. But I must ask, if you can see the hypocrisy, maybe you still can't, why do you still blindly engage?

Peace

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Blindly engage? I am blind because I do not agree with your positions? This is the hypocrisy. That I must be blind becuse I do not agree with you. I feed and help because that is my nature. i also disagree with your position on welfare because self help is also my nature. Those who cannot help themselves such as the mentally ill homeless. the aged, the infirmed are IMHO deserving of such. Even those who are displaced by virtue of fate are deserving of TEMPORARY help. HOWEVER!!!
I am a firm believer in give a man a fish and feed him for life, teach him how to fish and he feeds himself. Welfare for life promotes a slave class of people dependent upon the goverment for their daily bread and further promotes such from their offspring.
I learned my attitude from my Great grandmother who during the depression fed and housed entire families. THere was one provision to such help. The families had to put in a days work to earn this help. Positions such as yours promote the attitude to entitlement and expectation of a handout from those who work hard to pay the taxes and rely on their own backs to feed and house their families.
NOONE is entitled to welfare, the infirmed are IMHO an acceptable exception since they are not able to do for themselves, those who can do for themselves should get off their asses and do so.