soap??? wetting agent????

Since most spray bottles are small, use 1 drop and go from there. What it does is it causes the the water/nutes to not roll off the leaves. It's also good as a bug preventative.

yhea its ok. liquid dish detergent of any kind without bleach is good. it acts as an immuclifier to break down the nutrients and help it hold on to foliar. i only used the dish soap when i neem oil for insects every sunday during the veg. process. i use 1 1/2 teaspoon per quart of water. 1 quart should be plenty. if u wanna foliar feed, try folic acid, it works pretty good and if done correctly throughout growth, you will see an increase in yield of about 10%. thats an extra 8th. an oz. its worth it to me. try iggy's

SHOTTY6868 said:

yhea its ok. liquid dish detergent of any kind without bleach is good. it acts as an immuclifier to break down the nutrients and help it hold on to foliar. i only used the dish soap when i neem oil for insects every sunday during the veg. process. i use 1 1/2 teaspoon per quart of water. 1 quart should be plenty. if u wanna foliar feed, try folic acid, it works pretty good and if done correctly throughout growth, you will see an increase in yield of about 10%. thats an extra 8th. an oz. its worth it to me. try iggy's

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Apparently soap and detergent are 2 different things. Do not use detergent. There are specialty products like SM-90 and Coco Wet that do nicely.

when you add the soap to your water do you shake your water to mix the soap in or just add the drop of soap and then water?

I like SM-90 because you can also use it when watering/feeding as it works on roots equaly as well + it smells good!

There is a great product that works like a barrier penetrator when Foliar feeding. Its called Dutch Masters Penetrator. Google it. I started using it this season and I love it

If using dishsoap as a surfactant it should be a biodegradable form, such as Ivory. Or just pink bar soap, either way...

Edit: to be clear, the pink soap comment was a joke.

I always heard Ivory only as well,
But I never used it...

Best and cheapest home made surfactant aka a "spreader" only, is Ivory liquid dish soap. It is not a sticky type agent which you don't need unless your watering overhead foliage and all.. 1/4 tsp/liter is fine. Any non-ionic spreader-sticker aka surfactant can be purchased cheap at a feed store. One gallon should cost no more than $15, RedRiver is a good non-ionic surfactant. I also use another commercial product called Surf-King. It's a spreader, sticker, pH buffering agent, and penetrator.

BTW, the "90" stands for the amount of the active ingredient. 90% is a high grade. Get 88% or better. If they're charging you more than $5.00 for a liter, you're takin' it in the shorts.

As expected, another oil company is trying to hit the lotto using alot of bullshit in their lead in ads - http://www.tcs-hydroponics.com/doc/hydronutrients.htm

Get wise people, boycott such ripoff artists as Dutchmasters.

UB

DM penetrator is definitely the most effective surfactant I ave ever used and I have used a shit load in my restoration company dealings. That said, its too damn expensive. I'm currently using dr. bronners scent less soap.

UB, where do you get the surf-pro from? Can't find it from any of the companies I have accounts with?

Uncle Ben said:

Best and cheapest home made surfactant aka a "spreader" only, is Ivory liquid dish soap. It is not a sticky type agent which you don't need unless your watering overhead foliage and all.. 1/4 tsp/liter is fine. Any non-ionic spreader-sticker aka surfactant can be purchased cheap at a feed store. One gallon should cost no more than $15, RedRiver is a good non-ionic surfactant. I also use another commercial product called Surf-King. It's a spreader, sticker, pH buffering agent, and penetrator.

BTW, the "90" stands for the amount of the active ingredient. 90% is a high grade. Get 88% or better. If they're charging you more than $5.00 for a liter, you're takin' it in the shorts.

As expected, another oil company is trying to hit the lotto using alot of bullshit in their lead in ads - http://www.tcs-hydroponics.com/doc/hydronutrients.htm

Get wise people, boycott such ripoff artists as Dutchmasters.

UB

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Sure, while I'm at it, I'll paint my car with house paint because that fancy paint they use at the dealership is just marketing bullshit.
I spend too much time, effort & money to save $20 by using a product that "could" work. I invest hundreds and save thousands.
Why be cheap? Besides, I'd rather give my money to my local hydro shop than spend it at the corporate Wally World, whether it's $10 or $1,000.

legallyflying said:

DM penetrator is definitely the most effective surfactant I ave ever used and I have used a shit load in my restoration company dealings. That said, its too damn expensive. I'm currently using dr. bronners scent less soap.

UB, where do you get the surf-pro from? Can't find it from any of the companies I have accounts with?

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Surf-King, not Pro --> http://www.estesinc.com/specs/surfkingspec.pdf I buy it from Estes which has changed names. Being that I'm about to hop into the seat of the tractor and airblast my field, I checked out the RedRiver90 in my shop that I buy locally at a feed store. A Crown Line Product like SurfKing or Hi-Yield Spreader-Sticker or any good non-ionic surfactant that is 90% AI is what to look for. I paid $13.65 for a gallon of Red River90. Dutchmaster probably buys it or a similar product in bulk, repackages it, slaps a colorful label and name on it that appeals to kids, 'Penetrator', as they bilk you $120.00 for a gallon. The oil companies have no shame, and the loyal followers have no sense.

Jack, hope the paint job works fer ya.

UB

Jack Larson said:

I spend too much time, effort & money to save $20 by using a product that "could" work.

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"Could work"? Funny stuff....

You could save about $107, but you'd rather support a crooked industry and silly idealogy than buy into quality and value, eh? Until a little honor and integrity works it's way thru the cannabis industry, I'll not support any of it. That's MY idealogy and I'm stickin' to it.

UB

UB~ Dutch Masters Saturator claims it delivers the foliar spray past the leaf membrane and 100% of feed goes into leaf. Does Surf King get past the membrane and into plant 100% or is it just product that sticks to leafs an leaf takes up some what of foliar feed?

Personally I like cocowet for around $35 a gallon. I have used soap in a pinch. As for the whole "oil companies are out to get you" You do realize that EVERYTHING you buy practically is out to get your money. That is what makes an economy work... money and profit. If someone is willing to pay for it it isnt ripping anyone off. You always have the option to hunt for bargains but it doesnt mean the store up the street is "ripping you off"...... If you ever once sold any of your medication to anyone for more then it cost you to grow it did you "rip them off" ?

GoldenGanja13 said:

UB~ Dutch Masters Saturator claims it delivers the foliar spray past the leaf membrane and 100% of feed goes into leaf. Does Surf King get past the membrane and into plant 100% or is it just product that sticks to leafs an leaf takes up some what of foliar feed?

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Yes. In the previous post I gave you a link to the technical specs. BTW, of the 65 gallons of spray material I blasted this morn in the field, I only used 5 oz of SurfKing. Until it dries, it leaves a shiny complete coating on the leaf material. The plant will take it up only if it stays on and that's the main function of a surfactant, to negate the leaf's surface tension causing the mix to spread out as opposed to roll up into droplets and fall off. The addition of sticking properties is a benny, but not necessarily a requirement on cannabis as opposed to using an herbicide like glyphosate or doing a foliar spray. If I take the time and spend the money to spray 2 miles of row with an herbicide using a handgun, I want to insure it doesn't wash off with the first rain. In fact, I've sprayed an hour or two before a thunderstorm is due and got an excellent burn with herbicides that have a surfactant adjuvant added to the mix.

GoldenGanja13 said:

UB~ Dutch Masters Saturator claims it delivers the foliar spray past the leaf membrane and 100% of feed goes into leaf. Does Surf King get past the membrane and into plant 100% or is it just product that sticks to leafs an leaf takes up some what of foliar feed?

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surf king is a penetrator. The degree that a product actually penetrates is a factor of its acidity and oil content. The oils help to break down the surface tension and the acidity helps to pass through the waxy cuticle and be absorbed into the plant membranes. BTW, no product can accurately claim 100% absorption into the leaf. It just doesn't work like that.

PS I still don't know where to buy the fucking stuff. The online forestry supply and ag business I have accounts with don't carry it. Guess I can shop around at some of the ag stores but don't have tons of time for that.

Uncle Ben said:

"Could work"? Funny stuff....

You could save about $107, but you'd rather support a crooked industry and silly idealogy than buy into quality and value, eh? Until a little honor and integrity works it's way thru the cannabis industry, I'll not support any of it. That's MY idealogy and I'm stickin' to it.

UB

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So you advocate Supporting Big Box Stores and Large Corporations (Miracle Grow, Ivory Soap) that can afford millions in TV ads & all manner of Sponsorships? But my local guy at the hydro shop is dishonorable & crooked? I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one