So who here is growing in true organic living soil?

You are just combining styles. And they conflict each other.
Growing in soil with Fox Farm nutes is simply soil growing, there is nothing wrong with it,
but it isn't organic soil growing.
I don't preach it or teach it. I want to do a few runs strictly to see if it is worth it or not.
I have done lots and lots of runs with Fox Farm nutes and Fox Farm soils.
In the book I have he refers to it as "soup-style" growing. That's what you and I have been doing.
Now you and I are transferring from Soup-style to Living soil.
2 completely different animals.

The way I understand it is this. Do it one way or the other. Feed your plants or feed your soil and they
will feed your plants.
There isn't a problem with dirty non-organics. Unless you are going for organic. lmao. You said it yourself.
See the claim of the nutrient companies is the exact same opposite. They say, fuck feeding the soil, we
will give you everything you need right here in these bottles, buy them and don't worry about the other shit.
I think you will have success going soup-style like you have been OR making a living soil organically. There
appears to be a whole world of trouble and arguments trying to mix the 2 together.

nail firmly hit on the head Glad. I bet all the FF hate on the organic forums about PH being a problem is due to that right there mixing it up one foot in each. the dirt she is cooking and the side by side is hapening. when it's hard to tell which is the organic one and who is growing in soup then I will be a 100% organic grower. you sort thru the bullshit like it's a part time Glad LOL!

Cory and trevor said:

I thought the bushmasters series was designed to feed and bolster the bacteria nad fungi while the plant used some of the fertilizers at times in the life cycle it was useful to them and wasn't supporting them so that they stayed alive and fed and working harmoniously with the other elements in fox farms but I'm obviously not up on this living soil shit as I have bottles and am now out of the club of hitting the bottle (sad face)

Click to expand...

this is what's in some of the bushmaster type bottled nutrients----they list some of the brands at the top----

pactobutrazol--

I don't want to consume that shit! this is why I personally have trouble trying other folks 'medicine'[sic].....unless I know their pharming techniques intimately and personally....and I for one enjoy a pure living organic med....jm2c

http://www.manicbotanix.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=27&Itemid=14

here is some other interesting shit to fiddle fk around with---in case you want to make your own--'naturally'

http://forum.grasscity.com/advanced-growing-techniques/844919-make-your-own-snow-storm-ultra-purple-maxx.html

and I don't think their are any 'organic geniuses' just folks tryin to live 'naturally' and learning all the time--

problem with bottled nutes is its 'easier'....and more profitable for the companies that helped draft the law and sell this shit--indoor "hydro" shops from Canada --

living naturally means a little more effort--but endless quality benefits and is free--

think 'synthesized ' like vitamins--your body assimilates organic natural vitamins better than synthesized ones---quicker too.....ever notice the color of your urine wen consuming synthetic vitamins....?

that's what bottled nutes mostly are everything in them is found in a natural state with a little effort

Rrog said:

#1- You don't feed the microbes, the plant does. The plant secretes food for the microbes from the plant roots.

#2- You just build the soil and the marriage between the plant and the microbes is on.

#3- Local microbes are called BIM (Beneficial Indigenous Microbes) and you can gather a strong bacterial component by making the lacto B serum previously described, as Fattie did.


I'm very glad to see all the questions and activity. I'm working to distill this all down to a simple recipe. I am experimenting with a 30 gal fabric pot as a worm bin. Very simple, add your own Bokashi (your composted food scraps) to the worms. You can add all the powdered amendments to create a super vermicompost. Best available, much better than you can buy, and they will make all of it that you can use FOR FREE. So... best stuff available on this planet... for free.

Click to expand...

OK Rrog man--
now your forcing me to disclose 'esoteric' knowledge--here's a nice informative thread about how to 'capture/trap' BIM--

http://tribes.tribe.net/effectivemicro/thread/d6b8fd03-e2c7-4650-a658-51fdf4f013ad

particularly note the idea of capturing 'plant-specific' microbes/bacteria....as in the rice plant example.....hmmmmm

permaculture--
-everything is balanced in nature 'naturally'
and works together for the benefit of the whole

Ya! That's Gil Carandang's little book. Fun read. You can see the video version here: http://www.prokashi.com/videos/

Checked tractor supply co and the wheat bran will be there soon after holidays. And for anyone who forgot there ia a pdf of teaming with microbes towards the beginning of the thread.

Oh shit, that's right fattie. Lemme find that bastard.

EDIT: I've added links to my signature for future posts I guess, since it's not showing up here yet

Buckaroo, you had a link above to another forum where they were talking about using Triacontanol, a natural plant hormone. The fellow in that thread was trashing the commercial manufacturers of SnowStorm or some such bloom enhancer in a bottle. Instead, this fellow advocated making your own from Triacontanol powder available online. That's all fine and dandy and I applaud him for not buying bottles, but even that is making things too difficult.

Triacontanol is found in Alfalfa. Recall that Alfalfa has a kick-ass high N level too... But anyway you can simply soak Alfalfa (from the feed store) overnight in water, strain, then apply to soil and / or foliar. You get supposedly more resin and a shot of N for the microbes to store for later. How much $$ is a bit of Alfalfa? Pennies?

Want more scrubbing power, then wait- there's more. Double your hormones without the N (a good idea after a couple weeks of flower) by buying cheap-as-shit Alfalfa seeds. SPROUT THEM in a little water. Dilute this with more water and apply. Seed embryos have enormous levels of hormones and enzymes. (by the way, did you know that humus not only binds out Cations like Ca, Mg, Fe and Na, but also binds essential plant enzymes found in mature soil. How much for a 1/4 pound of Alfalfa seeds? Pennies?

Want more? If you call within 20 minutes, you can also get huge benefit from coconut water. Another example of fluid from a seed embryo. Just a little does the trick. How much is a coconut?

All of these are examples of the REAL hormones and enzymes and this stuff is almost free for shit's sake. This is why I jump up and down about this. You can grow much better and certainly much, much cheaper.

I agree, some of these things can have a smell initially, (lawn clippings can smell, too) but after it's strained it's just tea water you're adding. It's in the soil and gone or as a foliar the smell dissipates when it dries on the plant.

Try the sprout teas. More powerful. Coconut water or barley seed sprouts. Aloe from an Aloe plant is fantastic also. All are full of perfect plant enzymes. Unused enzymes bind to the compost in your soil for continued use later. It's a great payback.

you forgot comfrey nettles yarrow horsetail botanical teas and compost--just sayin

Yea! And stinging nettles have more N than Alfalfa.

I have read about the nettles but never tried it. Dandelion root is supposed.to be.good also.

Many plants have different things to offer us. Hormones, secondary metabolites, pest control, immune boosting, all from soaking a weed and applying after straining.

Now how long of a soak are we talking?

honestly still haven't advanced to intermediate level of organics yet, but this all makes so much sense, I am compelled to get with the program. It's like the shit is calling me. It may have lil something to do with 15+yrs of wasted phat cash at grow shops like SGS. I don't care if my yield is compromised some until I get better. If I was doing hydro I may consider "conventional" robo juice.

I sure hear you about being drawn to it. I'm testing a 30 gallon smart pot to raise worms. Smaller than a traditional worm bin. I'll throw my Bokashi in there and the worms eat and screw. A Bokashi pail and a smart pot don't take up much space but produce the best compost possible. I think you could do this in an apartment, no problem. Everyone can do this.

I also think that with this soil dialed in after a couple grows (recycle the soil) you would give hydro a great run for crop yield.

I need to do my reading on that aspect of things. I want to start reusing my soil but not sure where to start.

How long have you been growing in this batch of soil now? How many weeks into flower are you?

fattiemcnuggins said:

Now how long of a soak are we talking?

Click to expand...

Overnight. You're doing a simple water extraction and this will contain a great deal of beneficial secondary metabolites. These natural plant products are not generally critical for plant survival, but rather they impart many advantages, supplementation and protection. Depending on the plant. The thing is, these secondary metabolites degrade fast so you have to use the next day. It's simple as shit and even cheaper than shit and again can be used in soil or as a foliar.

This is not a Fermented Plant Extract (FPE). That is a long term fermentation process. Water + plant material + 30 days + strain = FPE