Silica and cannabis
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churchhaze
Well-Known Member
A good control for potassium silicate would be potassium hydroxide since OH- just joins an H+ and becomes water and potassium silicate is already basic.
You can easily google these molar masses:
K2SiO3 = 154g/mol
KOH = 56.1g/mol
K = 39.1g/mol
Then find the percentage of K in each. (not K2O like in NPK ratings)
%K in K2SiO3 = (2*39.1)/154 = 50.8%
%K in KOH = 39.1/56.1 = 69.7%
That means for every 1g of potassium silicate you add to the +Si variable group, you should add ~0.729g of potassium hydroxide to the control group.
But nobody here ever wants to do this experiment! Try feeding that exact amount of potassium hydroxide to the control groups and see how they do!
You can easily google these molar masses:
K2SiO3 = 154g/mol
KOH = 56.1g/mol
K = 39.1g/mol
Then find the percentage of K in each. (not K2O like in NPK ratings)
%K in K2SiO3 = (2*39.1)/154 = 50.8%
%K in KOH = 39.1/56.1 = 69.7%
That means for every 1g of potassium silicate you add to the +Si variable group, you should add ~0.729g of potassium hydroxide to the control group.
But nobody here ever wants to do this experiment! Try feeding that exact amount of potassium hydroxide to the control groups and see how they do!
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Observe & Report
Well-Known Member
I want to do this experiment but I have a tiny perpetual cab and I'm also a newbie who can't grow for shit.
Chester da Horse
Well-Known Member
I found the following, by some Indian dudes, Shakoor S, Bhat M, Mir S (2014) 'Phytoliths in Plants: A Review' J. Botanical Sciences. It reports absorption of monosilicic acid from orthoclase feldspar an igneous mineral...
4KAlSi3O8 + 4H+ + 18H2O → Si4Al4O10(OH)8 + 4K+ + 8Si(OH)4
That is a non-salt being hydrolysed into an absorbable form, and they then report that both the potassium and the silicic acid are absorbed and translocated via the xylem.
No not really, I form my own judgement from reading (with a cynical approach, good sir) (and limited) experience. In my head the science is conclusive that you can find silicon in plant tissues. That it is doing anything useful there may not be as convincing, I agree. BUT if the plant in the ground has it and no one has suggested it is harmful, then I want my hydroponic plant to have it available as well. Surely you believe in trace minerals? [/QUOTE]
Chester da Horse
Well-Known Member
Are you washing that dead chicken before you go waving it around? Recent public health information suggests that you should only wave unwashed dead chickens around...
http://www.food.gov.uk/news-updates/news/2014/6084/fsw
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
If I showed you conclusive evidence that humans can take up mercury and lead by showing you tissue samples with and without a control, would you also conclude that mercury and lead are useful and should be part of a balanced diet? I've seen plenty of studies showing good conclusive evidence of silicon uptake. There's no debate there. If possible, I'd rather my weed NOT have glass in it if it doesn't really do anything.
Also, there's a difference between "trace" elements like zinc, molybdenum, manganese, and boron, and not used for anything elements like silicon.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Rigidity in stems is not caused by silicon/glass, it's caused by fibers of cellulose, and a high water pressure. Water pressure is increased with higher levels of potassium... That causes greater rigidity!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_wall#Rigidity_of_cell_walls
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_wall#Rigidity_of_cell_walls
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churchhaze
Well-Known Member
From that wikipedia page on rigidity of cell walls:
As John Howland states it:
"Think of the cell wall as a wicker basket in which a balloon has been inflated so that it exerts pressure from the inside. Such a basket is very rigid and resistant to mechanical damage. Thus does the prokaryote cell (and eukaryotic cell that possesses a cell wall) gain strength from a flexible plasma membrane pressing against a rigid cell wall."
As John Howland states it:
"Think of the cell wall as a wicker basket in which a balloon has been inflated so that it exerts pressure from the inside. Such a basket is very rigid and resistant to mechanical damage. Thus does the prokaryote cell (and eukaryotic cell that possesses a cell wall) gain strength from a flexible plasma membrane pressing against a rigid cell wall."
purplelicious
Well-Known Member
purplelicious
Well-Known Member
This is a ridiculous ideal. So you're saying the plant has glass in it if it has silica in it? Wow I think we should all ignore you based on that statement. I'm not being rude but you're confused. It's almost hard to argue with the shear volume of ignorance.
The fact that you don't understand how silica is a catalyst for cell structure might be the problem with you're whole understanding of the universe.Rigidity in stems is not caused by silicon/glass, it's caused by fibers of cellulose, and a high water pressure. Water pressure is increased with higher levels of potassium... That causes greater rigidity!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_wall#Rigidity_of_cell_walls
Diatoms and silica
Silica is arguably the most important part of diatom biology andecology. The weight of silica influences the cell's float/sink equilibrium, and influences cell size and accumulation of photosynthetic storage products. Silica also allows for rigid, elaborate cell shapes. Diatom tests are preserved and compacted on the sea floor due to the presence of silica; therefore, it is the key to all the paleontological and industrial uses of diatomaceous earth and deep-sea cores.
In life, diatoms accumulate silica, (SiO2) as a structural element in their cell walls. The silica need of a diatom may be so great relative to the silica concentration of seawater, that it restricts diatom growth. Furthermore, because solid silica is more dense than seawater, it tends to make diatoms sink into the depths - a true Hades for these organisms, dependent on light in the surface waters for photosynthesis and life.
It is important to realize that silica is one component of a successful organism. Diatoms have evolved a whole host of features that go along with the weight of silica tests to place the cells at the mostadvantageous position available, both physically in the water and in an evolutionary sense.
Given these limitations, it is perhaps surprising that diatoms have survived evolutionary processes for 100 million years. The limitations of silica might just be a hold-over from their early evolutionary development, a time when conditions in the sea were different or the environment was somehow less selective. But most likely, such limitations may have other very significant advantages that benefit the diatom in life. There has been a great deal of speculation of late as to why diatoms accumulate silica in their cell walls, or from another angle, why a proto-diatom should have been evolutionarily successful.
Recent studies into the mechanisms by which silicification proceeds have identified the following: an energy-dependent Si transporter; Si as a biologically active element triggering natural defence mechanisms; and the means by which abiotic toxicities are alleviated by silica. A full understanding of silica formation in vivo still requires an elucidation of the role played by the environment in which silica formation occurs. Results fromin-vitro studies of the effects of cell-wall components associated with polymerized silica on mineral formation illustrate the interactions occurring between the biomolecules and silica, and the effects their presence has on the mineralized structures so formed.
Scope
This Botanical Briefing describes the uptake, storage and function of Si, and discusses the role biomolecules play when incorporated into model systems of silica polymerization as well as future directions for research in this field.
purplelicious
Well-Known Member
Everyone read this before you argue... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759229/
or at least the introduction here
Silicon (Si) in a chemically combined form is ubiquitous in nature. The Si content of soils can vary dramatically from <1 to 45 % dry weight (Sommer et al., 2006), and its presence in the form of silicic acid [Si(OH)4] (or its ionized form, Si(OH)3O−, which predominates at pH > 9) allows its uptake by plants. Silicic acid is generally found in soils at concentrations ranging from 0·1 to 0·6 mM (Epstein, 1994) but, to our knowledge, there has been no evidence of the occurrence of biosilicification reactions in the soil. Although not traditionally thought of as an element essential to the life cycle of plants, with the exception of the early-diverging Equisetaceae (Chen and Lewin, 1969), certain algae and diatoms, Si is found in plants at concentrations ranging from 0·1 to 10 % (=103–105 mg kg−1; dry weight basis), an amount equivalent to, or even exceeding, several macronutrients (Epstein, 1994). Plants deprived of Si are often weaker structurally and more prone to abnormalities of growth, development and reproduction and it is the only nutrient which is not detrimental when collected in excess (Epstein, 1999). This Botanical Briefing aims to cover aspects of Si uptake and its role as an alleviator of biotic and abiotic stress, and also to provide insight into how investigations into the surrounding plant cell-wall environment are helping to elucidate the role of chemical influences in the formation of polymeric silica in plants. [‘Si’ is the symbol for the element silicon and is also used as a generic term when the nature of the silicon compound(s) is not being specified. Si(OH)4 is silicic acid, more correctly named orthosilicic acid; it is the fundamental building block of silicas and is itself the simplest silica. Silica is amorphous, hydrated and usually polymerized material produced from Si(OH)4.]
or at least the introduction here
Silicon (Si) in a chemically combined form is ubiquitous in nature. The Si content of soils can vary dramatically from <1 to 45 % dry weight (Sommer et al., 2006), and its presence in the form of silicic acid [Si(OH)4] (or its ionized form, Si(OH)3O−, which predominates at pH > 9) allows its uptake by plants. Silicic acid is generally found in soils at concentrations ranging from 0·1 to 0·6 mM (Epstein, 1994) but, to our knowledge, there has been no evidence of the occurrence of biosilicification reactions in the soil. Although not traditionally thought of as an element essential to the life cycle of plants, with the exception of the early-diverging Equisetaceae (Chen and Lewin, 1969), certain algae and diatoms, Si is found in plants at concentrations ranging from 0·1 to 10 % (=103–105 mg kg−1; dry weight basis), an amount equivalent to, or even exceeding, several macronutrients (Epstein, 1994). Plants deprived of Si are often weaker structurally and more prone to abnormalities of growth, development and reproduction and it is the only nutrient which is not detrimental when collected in excess (Epstein, 1999). This Botanical Briefing aims to cover aspects of Si uptake and its role as an alleviator of biotic and abiotic stress, and also to provide insight into how investigations into the surrounding plant cell-wall environment are helping to elucidate the role of chemical influences in the formation of polymeric silica in plants. [‘Si’ is the symbol for the element silicon and is also used as a generic term when the nature of the silicon compound(s) is not being specified. Si(OH)4 is silicic acid, more correctly named orthosilicic acid; it is the fundamental building block of silicas and is itself the simplest silica. Silica is amorphous, hydrated and usually polymerized material produced from Si(OH)4.]
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Anyone here growing these? That's what he's talking about. It also sounds like the silica is dooming that species of algae to fall to the bottom of the sea where its life ends!
purplelicious
Well-Known Member
That is exactly how relevant your argument is! You called yourself out.. have you ever grown a plant?Anyone here growing these? That's what he's talking about.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Yes. It's cell rigidity is formed by water pressure and cellulose fibers, not glass.
purplelicious
Well-Known Member
Silica is not glass in the cell structure of a plant. Are you serious with this?
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Silica is basically just glass.
purplelicious
Well-Known Member
Bye
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_dioxide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass
"Of the many silica-based glasses that exist, ordinary glazing and container glass is formed from a specific type called soda-lime glass, composed of approximately 75% silicon dioxide (SiO2),"
"Fused quartz, also called fused silica glass, vitreous silica glass, is silica (SiO2) in vitreous or glass form"
"Sodium borosilicate glass, Pyrex: silica 81%"
SiO2 + 2 NaOH → Na2SiO3 + H2O.
You're just dissolving glass.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass
"Of the many silica-based glasses that exist, ordinary glazing and container glass is formed from a specific type called soda-lime glass, composed of approximately 75% silicon dioxide (SiO2),"
"Fused quartz, also called fused silica glass, vitreous silica glass, is silica (SiO2) in vitreous or glass form"
"Sodium borosilicate glass, Pyrex: silica 81%"
SiO2 + 2 NaOH → Na2SiO3 + H2O.
You're just dissolving glass.....
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JimmyIndica
Well-Known Member
Its probably said 100 times back in the thread. Silica Blast from Botanicare is in standard feed program and helps makes big strong and flexible branches.
Observe & Report
Well-Known Member
From what I understand, diatoms are unique in they build skeletons from silica, but Cannabis and nearly all other plants don't make the same skeletons. So some of us are having a hard time understanding how the info on diatoms is relevant.