Should food be a right?

Just out of curiosity, how long has denmark been a social democracy? What were they before? Did they just change one day when a new leader was elected? What was their economy like at the time they implemented these programs? Just curious of the history

AlphaPhase said:

Now that is one of the realest posts I've seen. Not many people bring up the fact that other countries are generally more happy. That is a huge factor for sure. Less suicide rates, just a general better sense of well being, less depression etc.. America has a lot of issues with mental health and the likes.. Would be nice to get that sorted out, especially the gun violence. I mean, I'm all for guns, but I can't stand to read about shootings every other day (I feel it's directly connected).

I guess all in all I'd love to see similar programs that other countries have. I guess I'm just scared because our leaders tend to be extremely bad with money and fixing issues.. I feel Obama care is a failure, a lot of my friends had cheaper rates with lower co-pays.. For example, my vet friend that just had a kid decided to get health insurance.. It was 400/mo and she's a single parent.. She can go to the VA, but no any emergency room, (the VA er is 2 hrs away). If we change our systems abruptly, I feel it could become a burden, but like I said, if it's possible it's worth a shot. I'd love to see it here. Our student loans are ridiculous, my brothers still paying his off after 10 years and his payment is 700 a month smh. If the future for our kids can be a little easier, I'm all for it, if it's possible. We need the right government, Senate, president, Congress... all Stars must align.

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I think we are mostly in agreement. Its not going to happen over night. But we do have to start putting people in office that see it this way too. Chanting "merica great again but another round of cutting taxes and increasing military spending like what GWB's administration did is exactly what Trump is proposing. Another round of that will just put the people of this country deeper in the hole.

AlphaPhase said:

Just out of curiosity, how long has denmark been a social democracy? What were they before? Did they just change one day when a new leader was elected? What was their economy like at the time they implemented these programs? Just curious of the history

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I'm no expert on world history LOL. Denmark at one time was a monarchy and transitioned to a democracy in the 1800's. After WW1, people in Europe saw how little good their wealthy aristocracies were for the overall population and social programs started being implemented with higher taxation on wealthy.

Sweden has a word that has no direct translation into English, "lagom". It means enough for everybody and is a value that has importance to its society. It drives discussions regarding wealth, consumption and what is "enough". I like the concept. We might want to start thinking of excessive wealth and consumption as gross and disgusting because it means less for everybody.

Fogdog said:

I think we are mostly in agreement. Its not going to happen over night. But we do have to start putting people in office that see it this way too. Chanting "merica great again but another round of cutting taxes and increasing military spending like what GWB's administration did is exactly what Trump is proposing. Another round of that will just put the people of this country deeper in the hole.

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Totally, if we can get the right people in office, game on! Trump imo is just a wierd Democrat, he doesn't have very many conservative values.. But honestly, between Trump and Hillary, I don't care which will win. Neither will be what we need (just another opinion).. I've followed hillary since she's been in the game (I lived in NY most my life) and I've seen too many inconsistencies and "evolving", (I guess that's the new term for changing policies towards whatever is hot at the moment. Trump on the other hand is just an ass. He doesn't have any experience, but he also doesn't have a shady politcal record.. So I view them equal. I registered independent and can't vote for either and wouldn't if I could. If I had a chance to vote, it would probably be Bernie, I know the Senate would block many of his ideas, just like Obama, but I feel he would be the lesser of the 3 evils. What I like about Bernie is he is real (yeah, that's cliche, I know, all the kids are saying it lol) - but he is. He hasn't flip flopped much at all. He's consistent. That's fucking RARE in politics. How do you feel about Gary Johnson? If the dems and repubs don't sort thier shit out soon, next round I'm registering libertarian.

Fogdog said:

I'm no expert on world history LOL. Denmark at one time was a monarchy and transitioned to a democracy in the 1800's. After WW1, people in Europe saw how little good their wealthy aristocracies were for the overall population and social programs started being implemented with higher taxation on wealthy.

Sweden has a word that has no direct translation into English, "lagom". It means enough for everybody and is a value that has importance to its society. It drives discussions regarding wealth, consumption and what is "enough". I like the concept. We might want to start thinking of excessive wealth and consumption as gross and disgusting because it means less for everybody.

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I agree that nobody should have godly bank accounts. Who draws the line on what is too much money, I don't know.. If I had to make the call, I'd say 500 million max. That sounds like a lot, yes, but I feel it's a good number. When you enter the billion range, well fuck me, wtf do you need a billion for? Unless you're building business and putting it back in to the economy. A million, I don't feel is a lot, though on the other hand it could be.. It's hard to tackle the question of what is too much.. But I do feel a billion is too much.

When the lottery here was like 700 million, I said I'd donate 500 mil off the rip.. If I won.. But the government would take that away first lol

AlphaPhase said:

Totally, if we can get the right people in office, game on! Trump imo is just a wierd Democrat, he doesn't have very many conservative values.. But honestly, between Trump and Hillary, I don't care which will win. Neither will be what we need (just another opinion).. I've followed hillary since she's been in the game (I lived in NY most my life) and I've seen too many inconsistencies and "evolving", (I guess that's the new term for changing policies towards whatever is hot at the moment. Trump on the other hand is just an ass. He doesn't have any experience, but he also doesn't have a shady politcal record.. So I view them equal. I registered independent and can't vote for either and wouldn't if I could. If I had a chance to vote, it would probably be Bernie, I know the Senate would block many of his ideas, just like Obama, but I feel he would be the lesser of the 3 evils. What I like about Bernie is he is real (yeah, that's cliche, I know, all the kids are saying it lol) - but he is. He hasn't flip flopped much at all. He's consistent. That's fucking RARE in politics. How do you feel about Gary Johnson? If the dems and repubs don't sort thier shit out soon, next round I'm registering libertarian.

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Its said over and over, no diff between T and H. If you can bear to listen to either, there is a huge diff in rhetoric. I support Bernie too and just watch to see what he does. I'm guessing he aligns with Hillary and uses his influence to keep the Democratic party from moving to the right. If he breaks with the Dems, I'm going with him. Its not the situation I or, it sounds like you, prefer but I can't see how anybody could say T and H are similar. A Trump supporter would say the same thing.

Libertarians are all about I get mine and you get yours. Its not even a good social theory. Its never been tried in any large country so it's all just philosophy to me. It ignores how people actually behave through history and even before then. And their idea that an employer can do whatever he wants to his workers is just nuts. Don't want to give me a blowjob? You're fired.

Fogdog said:

Its said over and over, no diff between T and H. If you can bear to listen to either, there is a huge diff in rhetoric. I support Bernie too and just watch to see what he does. I'm guessing he aligns with Hillary and uses his influence to keep the Democratic party from moving to the right. If he breaks with the Dems, I'm going with him. Its not the situation I or, it sounds like you, prefer but I can't see how anybody could say T and H are similar. A Trump supporter would say the same thing.

Libertarians are all about I get mine and you get yours. Its not even a good social theory. Its never been tried in any large country so it's all just philosophy to me. It ignores how people actually behave through history and even before then. And their idea that an employer can do whatever he wants to his workers is just nuts. Don't want to give me a blowjob? You're fired.

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There is a difference for sure. They are not the same, but I feel they are the same in a non static way. Trump has many left leaning ideas. Even some of his so called far right leaning stances were also done by Democrat presidents (like his immigrant policies views). I just feel that the outcome of either becoming president would be similar is all. Both would create mayhem in some way or another. It's not like hillary isn't for war, if you catch my drift.

I agree, libertarians have their issues, but I feel if they worked out the kinks, it could be a great party. A little of left a little of right. Iron out the stupid wrinkles they have and I think they would be a refreshing Breath of new air.. Especially the newer libs, they are starting to change a bit, I don't like anyone messing with Medicare, like Gary Johnson, but he has tons of great views, some suck though.. No party is perfect, that's why I like independents. He did balance the budget with great respectability in new Mexico. That's something I'd love to see on scale.

AlphaPhase said:

If I had a chance to vote, it would probably be Bernie

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but hillary is no good because she votes with bernie 93% of the time?

Now or the past 10 years?

Just to be clear, I lived in NY for 20+ years. I've followed her since day 1, first lady. I've seen and witnessed the "evolving" lol. Oh well, no biggy. I accept your opinion.

AlphaPhase said:

Just to be clear, I lived in NY for 20+ years. I've followed her since day 1, first lady. I've seen and witnessed the "evolving" lol. Oh well, no biggy. I accept your opinion.

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Are you one of those Bernie or bust heads bro?

Aeroknow said:

Are you one of those Bernie or bust heads bro?

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I'm just independent, it's a extremely sensitive time in politics. Fragile stage to make a informed decision at the moment, I'm just waiting for the next turn of events to happen. I can't vote in the primary, well I mean, I did, for Arthur Harris, but that obviously doesn't matter lol. Its going to be a bumpy ride from here imo

This is what sucks.. To me at least... We can make as many lower class income home as ever before.. But what can we do to RAISE them up to middle class? Should we just give them the crumbs they need to keep going just enough.. Or is there another way?

AlphaPhase said:

I'm just independent

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then why can i find pages and pages of you bellowing racism and sucking on donald trump's tiny penis then?

You can't. The only racist things I've said were to make your panties bunch up. Once you started throwing the race card around like it was confetti, I figured why not pretend it's kind of funny, a mixed race guy that has had mostly minority girlfriends (my first girlfriend was Puerto Rican lol) and 1/2 of my family is black being racist. Classic.

The Internet isn't real life btw. Guess it's called trolling the political trolls but yeah, now that we got that out of the way, let's get back to real political banter.

Name 3 things that hillary will change if she's elected.

Also, name 5 major events she's voted on that she hasn't changed her stance on.

AlphaPhase said:

You can't. The only racist things I've said were to make your panties bunch up.

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i wasn't even there when you went on your racist, trump loving hissy fit.

UncleBuck said:

i wasn't even there when you went on your racist, trump loving hissy fit.

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I know it was this guy, it was quite the day lol. Then at some point it snow balled into mayhem so we just kept it going. I think when I said something about borders being a good thing, all hell broke loose

Allow me to clear things up and introduce myself. Hi, my name is AlphaPhase and I'm a Democrat turned independent. I agree with many social programs and at the same time like to see fiscal responsibility. I'm against war but feel we do need a decent sized military. I also think the US spends far too much money on military and war and far too little money on its veterans. I'd like to see a better VA system. I'd like to see the lower class be lifted up rather than drug along. I'd like to see the middle class boom again. I think most drugs should be legalized because the war on drugs is an utter failure. I think people should be able to be whatever they want (lgbt) but seeing this crap about bathrooms on the news and radio all day every day irritates the shit out of me. It's time to move on because now the conservatives are fucking it up more than it was before it was brought up. Equal pay for equal work, regardless of sex (but if the lady in the marriage wants to be a stay at home mom and make awesome sandwiches, that's pretty fucking cool. Her choice.) woman should have the right to choose to abort. But ONLY if it's BEFORE it has a heart beat, unless there's serious complications. No 7 month abortion, that just sucks to think about. I think people should also be more responsible and try NOT to have kids if they aren't ready and can't afford it, but I know shit happens sometimes. I'm pro guns. I'm Anti corruption. I'm anti super PAC. And the voting system pisses me off. I think borders are a good idea. I don't think deporting people that are here illegally is right if they've been here a while and are making a good life for themselves, but I think there should be a simple registering process for them to become legal. I'm also for allowing refugees but only if they are properly vetted. Especially during turmoil. There was just a ICE swat team in a tiny town I lived in today, in NY. Right next to were I lived. So threats are REAL. Especially if it happened in that small ass upstate NY town.

That is all.

Fogdog said:

Its said over and over, no diff between T and H. If you can bear to listen to either, there is a huge diff in rhetoric. I support Bernie too and just watch to see what he does. I'm guessing he aligns with Hillary and uses his influence to keep the Democratic party from moving to the right. If he breaks with the Dems, I'm going with him. Its not the situation I or, it sounds like you, prefer but I can't see how anybody could say T and H are similar. A Trump supporter would say the same thing.

Libertarians are all about I get mine and you get yours. Its not even a good social theory. Its never been tried in any large country so it's all just philosophy to me. It ignores how people actually behave through history and even before then. And their idea that an employer can do whatever he wants to his workers is just nuts. Don't want to give me a blowjob? You're fired.

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Actually no.

Libertarians are fine with socialists, as long as all the people that want to be a socialist confine their belief to themselves and don't extend it to controlling others who don't want to be a socialist.


Socialists are thugs and condone OFFENSIVE force as a systemic norm. Libertarians do not. You should learn more about the non aggression principle and be more peaceful.