Russian jet shot down by Turkey

Lord Kanti

Lord Kanti

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Agreed. Now that Mr Putin has do obviously made himself a threat to NATO, it remains to be seen whether they can grow a spine in time, or if it will just be the twenty first century's example of Neville Chamberlain's 'Peace in our time!'
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Russia has never been a threat to NATO, but Truman fucked up our relations and we're still paying for his inept presidency. When things started to get better Clinton stabbed Russia in the back by moving NATO against Russian borders when the previous presidency told Russia it wouldn't ever consider such treachery. But because it was a verbal agreement and there was no treaty signed, Clinton weaseled his way into the Warsaw countries like half willing interns. No dress is large enough to hide that shame.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Lord Kanti said:
Russia has never been a threat to NATO, but Truman fucked up our relations and we're still paying for his inept presidency. When things started to get better Clinton stabbed Russia in the back by moving NATO against Russian borders when the previous presidency told Russia it wouldn't ever consider such treachery. But because it was a verbal agreement and there was no treaty signed, Clinton weaseled his way into the Warsaw countries like half willing interns. No dress is large enough to hide that shame.
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'Russia has never been a threat to NATO...'

WTF? Stalin was the reason we did it!

I'm sorry, you're an idiot. Please go get an education in modern world history and current events before commenting again, unless you really don't want to be taken seriously.
 
2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
Lord Kanti said:
Russia has never been a threat to NATO, but Truman fucked up our relations and we're still paying for his inept presidency. When things started to get better Clinton stabbed Russia in the back by moving NATO against Russian borders when the previous presidency told Russia it wouldn't ever consider such treachery. But because it was a verbal agreement and there was no treaty signed, Clinton weaseled his way into the Warsaw countries like half willing interns. No dress is large enough to hide that shame.
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During the Cuban missile crisis of 1962, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the deployment of nuclear weapons in western Europe in the 1980s and many other causes of strife, NATO did not take on the Soviet Union or Russia directly and Moscow did not attack
That all changed when Turkish air force jets shot down a Russian bomber Tuesday -- the first time a NATO country has taken such action since 1952.

Putin calls jet's downing 'stab in the back'; Turkey says warning ignored

Any chance of a quick end to the war in Syria seems to have gone up in smoke.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has been trying to undermine the unity of NATO for years. Whether it's been Russian planes flying in Baltic airspace, aging bombers buzzing the coast of Britain, the destabilization of Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea, he has needled NATO, testing its resolve and probing for division. The downing of Russia's fighter plane may help Putin reach his goal of destabilizing and dividing NATO.
 
2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
With both France and Russia mourning losses from ISIS terror and when they were collectively trading their national tragedies for compromises to find a solution in Syria.
Fmr. NATO Cmdr.: Turkey has funneled fighters to ISIS 03:13
Hollande lost 130 people to ISIS in the Paris attacks this month and Putin 224 to terrorist bombers who blew up a Russian passenger jet a few weeks earlier. Both have a moral authority to galvanize collective action.

It was a rare moment in international diplomacy and some diplomats were beginning to think Russia's policy on Syria and its support for Bashar al-Assad could be changed. Not quickly, or easily, but the chance was there.
And Erdogan has squandered it.
The downing of the Russian jet smacks of what Erdogan's enemies accuse him of -- of aspirations to resurrect the Ottoman Empire -- and leaves him open to claims he is too soft on radical Islamists. Putin has gone further -- saying that Erdogan, the head of state of a NATO member, is siding with the terrorists.
And that's why -- at first analysis -- this looks like a disaster, beyond the loss of life of one pilot and a would-be rescuer.

It may also be a gain for Putin.

For all those years he has was trying to undermine NATO unity, Erdogan's hasty move has handed it to him on a plate.

We may learn what led up to the strike, but the deed is done.
 
Lord Kanti

Lord Kanti

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
'Russia has never been a threat to NATO...'

WTF? Stalin was the reason we did it!

I'm sorry, you're an idiot. Please go get an education in modern world history and current events before commenting again, unless you really don't want to be taken seriously.
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Without Russia there's a good chance you'd be speaking German today. Russia wasn't conquering Europe, they were neutering Germany, a move the US had initially supported but then instead pumped massive amounts of aid into Germany making it an industrial powerhouse once again to the dismay of Russia. Russia and the US were allies during the period of FDR's presidency.
 
2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
Now lets look at what the North atlantic treaty countries think already Germany , and Czechoslovakia are thinking something different,,
But what is Turkey all about ?????
In Turkey, as internationally, Erdogan has a history of pushing his own agenda, whether it's against the tide or not.
There's almost no freedom of the press there -- just ask the journalists locked up while covering the recent elections, in which Erdogan's party did surprisingly well after a summer poll flop.
Conflict with Kurdish people inside and outside Turkey continues. Turkey took no action against ISIS for a year and a half as the group advanced across the border in northern Syria.

And when Erdogan finally decided to act militarily in July, the targets were more often Kurdish groups fighting the Islamic extremists, rather than ISIS itself. Turkey did grant the United States permission to use one of its air bases for anti-ISIS missions after a suspected suicide bomber attacked the Turkish city of Suruc, but the two allies have different agendas.
Even as the United States sees Kurdish fighting groups as a hope to beat ISIS, Turkey continues to attack them. To many in Turkey, the prospect of an independent state for the Kurds is seen as a greater threat than the religious extremism of ISIS. To much domestic acclaim, Erdogan has moved Turkey away from its secular past and resurrected Islamism in Turkish politics.
 
2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
'Russia has never been a threat to NATO...'

WTF? Stalin was the reason we did it!

I'm sorry, you're an idiot. Please go get an education in modern world history and current events before commenting again, unless you really don't want to be taken seriously.
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Indeed, Erdogan appears to pin hopes on the more moderate Muslim Brotherhood of Syria to thwart real radicals, but he could be getting played.

And then there's taking on Russia, which is also nominally targeting the common enemy of ISIS.

A month ago, Turkey shot down what it said was an unmanned drone that entered its airspace. So the firing at the Russian jet was an escalation in an already volatile situation.

Putin may have dirty hands -- but so does Erdogan.

And elsewhere, ISIS watches.
 
Lord Kanti

Lord Kanti

Well-Known Member
2ANONYMOUS said:
Now lets look at what the North atlantic treaty countries think already Germany , and Czechoslovakia are thinking something different,,
But what is Turkey all about ?????
In Turkey, as internationally, Erdogan has a history of pushing his own agenda, whether it's against the tide or not.
There's almost no freedom of the press there -- just ask the journalists locked up while covering the recent elections, in which Erdogan's party did surprisingly well after a summer poll flop.
Conflict with Kurdish people inside and outside Turkey continues. Turkey took no action against ISIS for a year and a half as the group advanced across the border in northern Syria.

And when Erdogan finally decided to act militarily in July, the targets were more often Kurdish groups fighting the Islamic extremists, rather than ISIS itself. Turkey did grant the United States permission to use one of its air bases for anti-ISIS missions after a suspected suicide bomber attacked the Turkish city of Suruc, but the two allies have different agendas.
Even as the United States sees Kurdish fighting groups as a hope to beat ISIS, Turkey continues to attack them. To many in Turkey, the prospect of an independent state for the Kurds is seen as a greater threat than the religious extremism of ISIS. To much domestic acclaim, Erdogan has moved Turkey away from its secular past and resurrected Islamism in Turkish politics.
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The clear gap of Kurdish control along the Syrian - Turkish border is Turkey's doing. Rather than let the Kurds cripple IS, Turkey made sure that IS would have a secure border crossing to funnel recruits, weapons, oil, slaves, etc.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Lord Kanti said:
Without Russia there's a good chance you'd be speaking German today. Russia wasn't conquering Europe, they were neutering Germany, a move the US had initially supported but then instead pumped massive amounts of aid into Germany making it an industrial powerhouse once again to the dismay of Russia. Russia and the US were allies during the period of FDR's presidency.
Click to expand...
Without US, there would BE no Russia today.

I know my WW2 history very well. You needed us more than we needed you, but that's still absolutely the wrong way to look at it.

The simple fact is that Russia will forever be laboring at a disadvantage until it embraces freedom for its period. Putin won't do it, so it's time to find another leader who will.

I refuse to believe that Russians can't govern themselves without fascist/communist thugs in power.
 
Lord Kanti

Lord Kanti

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Without US, there would BE no Russia today.

I know my WW2 history very well. You needed us more than we needed you, but that's still absolutely the wrong way to look at it.

The simple fact is that Russia will forever be laboring at a disadvantage until it embraces freedom for its period. Putin won't do it, so it's time to find another leader who will.

I refuse to believe that Russians can't govern themselves without fascist/communist thugs in power.
Click to expand...
By the time the second front was opened, the war had already been won by Russia, it was only a matter of time before the red army swept the Nazis into the sea. Not only were the Russians able to push the Nazis back into Berlin, but they were also able to throw their army against the Japanese, which quickly prompted their surrender. Truman was hoping to bomb Japan into submission, thus not have to give any gratitude to Stalin for moving against Japan. Truman's failed nuclear policy, and his snubbing of Russia fueled the arms race with the U.S.S.R. and soured the post war relationship with the U.S.A. and U.S.S.R.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Lord Kanti said:
By the time the second front was opened, the war had already been won by Russia, it was only a matter of time before the red army swept the Nazis into the sea. Not only were the Russians able to push the Nazis back into Berlin, but they were also able to throw their army against the Japanese, which quickly prompted their surrender. Truman was hoping to bomb Japan into submission, thus not have to give any gratitude to Stalin for moving against Japan. Truman's failed nuclear policy, and his snubbing of Russia fueled the arms race with the U.S.S.R. and soured the post war relationship with the U.S.A. and U.S.S.R.
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Heyyyyyyyyyy.... I know who you are; you're a paid apparatchik for the Putin Point of View.

Again, you underestimate me, comrade- the most honorable Red Army was rolling T-34s out of the factory doors in Stalingrad with half tanks of fuel and half stores of ammunition, because they weren't expected to need a full load of either.

And, they won. Against all odds. They fought for their own homes, their own wives and children. They turned back the Nazis like their grandfathers turned back Napoleon.

This is different than an attempt to impose your will on another.
 
Elwood Diggler

Elwood Diggler

Well-Known Member
2ANONYMOUS said:
During the Cuban missile crisis of 1962, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the deployment of nuclear weapons in western Europe in the 1980s and many other causes of strife, NATO did not take on the Soviet Union or Russia directly and Moscow did not attack
That all changed when Turkish air force jets shot down a Russian bomber Tuesday -- the first time a NATO country has taken such action since 1952.

Putin calls jet's downing 'stab in the back'; Turkey says warning ignored

Any chance of a quick end to the war in Syria seems to have gone up in smoke.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has been trying to undermine the unity of NATO for years. Whether it's been Russian planes flying in Baltic airspace, aging bombers buzzing the coast of Britain, the destabilization of Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea, he has needled NATO, testing its resolve and probing for division. The downing of Russia's fighter plane may help Putin reach his goal of destabilizing and dividing NATO.
Click to expand...



do you remember putin's first blowjob?
 
Lord Kanti

Lord Kanti

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Without US, there would BE no Russia today.

I know my WW2 history very well. You needed us more than we needed you, but that's still absolutely the wrong way to look at it.

The simple fact is that Russia will forever be laboring at a disadvantage until it embraces freedom for its period. Putin won't do it, so it's time to find another leader who will.

I refuse to believe that Russians can't govern themselves without fascist/communist thugs in power.
Click to expand...
Want to give Yeltsin another go?
 
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