rudeau government seeks to set impaired driving limit at 2ng/mL. Daily smokers sit around 10ng/L. (o

gb123

Well-Known Member
recently, the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights has focused its attention on Bill C-46, which will tighten impaired driving laws, particularly cannabis impaired driving.

While there is no disagreement that laws targeting impaired driving should be strongly enforced, and the government has taken a positive step forward in contemplating impaired driving law reforms, the proposed testing and enforcement mechanisms in Bill C-46 raise significant questions and concerns around civil liberties and human rights.

The law as proposed would criminalize Canadians who use medical cannabis responsibly – even when they are not actually impaired.

While no one should drive impaired, the proposed changes will serve to disproportionately criminalize the estimated 150,000 individuals who use cannabis legally and regularly for medical reasons, with physician support, across Canada.

That’s why it’s so disappointing that patients and patient advocacy groups, including Canadians for Fair Access to Medical Marijuana, were denied an invitation to express their views at these sessions.

The proposed changes to driving impairment laws will introduce per se limits for cannabis, similar to how we identify those driving under the influence of alcohol. While this may make sense on the surface, the science simply isn’t there when it comes to correlating cannabis use and impairment.

Unlike blood alcohol concentration, which is scientifically linked to levels of impairment, matching impairment to levels of THC – the main psychoactive component in cannabis – is still widely debated.

Determining actual impairment of cognitive, psychomotor and other functions necessary to safely drive is not as simple as measuring the presence of THC in blood. Even more importantly, the effects of THC are different from person-to-person, and THC can remain detectable within a regular user’s blood for days, potentially weeks, after it was last consumed.

It should also be said that authorized medical users are expected to follow advice from health-care providers, including safe-use guidelines, such as waiting at least four-to-six hours after consumption before driving to help eliminate risk of impairment.

However, the government’s proposal, which would set a per se cut-off of 2ng/ml THC at the lower end, would mean patients would have to stop using their medication three-to-seven days (or more) before driving, which has nothing to do with impairment.

For many patients, using medical cannabis isn’t about its psychoactive effects, but rather managing their symptoms with minimal impairment. This presents novel challenges that deserve consideration and a voice when it comes to the practicalities of “impaired” driving laws.

Given this context, do we simply allow the undisputed potential criminalization of responsible medical users without allowing them to participate in this important debate?

Allowing for a diverse and inclusive conversation can assist policy-makers in acknowledging the various experiences and realities of Canadians prescribed medical cannabis.

Without it, overly restrictive and blanket regulation that does not duly consider the most vulnerable, key affected populations will simply lead to ineffective policy and ongoing court challenges.

While the issue is undeniably complex, and medical cannabis authorization is not a licence to drive impaired, at the very least, the justice committee should be allowing for testimony from patients, physicians and scientists on how these laws may affect medical users.

If they use cannabis regularly to manage their symptoms, they will consistently test above the per se limits. This means the proposed bill would disproportionately criminalize a vulnerable and already stigmatized population under a legal system.

After all, the point of regulating cannabis is not to increase harms through laws which may overly criminalize legal medical users, but rather should be focused on undoing many of the harms which, from a medical viewpoint, have contributed to additional barriers in research, accessing medical cannabis and the ongoing stigmatization of medical use.
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.
Punishing me for the legal use of my medicine without being able to prove I am impaired is a violation. I know with booze the worded the laws so you aren't charged with impaired driving, you are charged with exceeding .08% bac. They will word this legislation the same - "driving with a thc level over 2 ng" will be the offence, not actual impairment. I say bring it on. I'm not going to change my habits or give up my license for anyone.
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
Zaid, Valleriani and Thurley: Impaired driving bill overly targets medical cannabis users


Jenna Valleriani
 

HotWaterKarl

Well-Known Member
It should be fairly easy to take an elevator ride with some Senators, some other government folk and such, and dispense odorless medicine vapor for your needs. If such vapor were to contaminate other politicians that were subsequently pulled over, that would be weird I guess.:dunce:
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Alberta just announced a 2ng limit for pot impairment. Lose your license right away until the matter is dealt with in court. Won't come into effect until the pot laws change and that could be years yet so not handing in my license until the dust settles.
 

cannadan

Well-Known Member
2ng is the absolutely most crazy amount....they could choose....
The way I rationalize that would be...
2ng= impaired.
1ng= the only achievable pass,but will come with a warning right or roadside suspension for 24 hr?
0ng = not impaired...
can you see the line in the sand...picture what a chart of these factors would look like.
so its basically,any trace of pot will automatically indicate possible impairment...no matter if its first hand or second hand smoke...
and they have left zero room for any kind of levels of impairment,unless there are 5 or 6 decimal places that factor in to create some kind of spread in the numbers.
Its so typical of how the police and gov has dealt with mj all the way along....if you use it...your a criminal... and if you don't ...your not.
 

Farmer.J

Well-Known Member
Alberta just announced a 2ng limit for pot impairment. Lose your license right away until the matter is dealt with in court. Won't come into effect until the pot laws change and that could be years yet so not handing in my license until the dust settles.
Fml
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
unconstitutional for med patients
unconstitutional for everyone. There is zero scientific evidence that points to 2ng being a threshold for impairment. I've stated before, I can go a week without using and still be over 2ng. My prediction? There will be many charges for impaired DUI/cannabis in the first 2 or 3 years, but there will be zero convictions. THC level does not correlate to level of impairment.
 

coppershot

Well-Known Member
unconstitutional for med patients
Unconstitutional for all... fucking people drafting the legislstion dont seem to be speaking with the right people. Where is the meaningful engagement to target appropriate policy and regulation. They are bastardizing this to the point the there will be more challenges, more time tied up in court, more money wasted and more lives negatively impacted... sad.
 
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coppershot

Well-Known Member
unconstitutional for everyone. There is zero scientific evidence that points to 2ng being a threshold for impairment. I've stated before, I can go a week without using and still be over 2ng. My prediction? There will be many charges for impaired DUI/cannabis in the first 2 or 3 years, but there will be zero convictions. THC level does not correlate to level of impairment.
Should have read down more. QFT.
 

cannadan

Well-Known Member
sorry yes...for everyone..I'm just more concentrated on the medical end of things..
and maybe for slightly different sections of the charter.
 

cannadan

Well-Known Member
even booze has graduated limits of impairment.
where you can be warned and suspended for short duration...
and those limits actually represent something.
2ng/ml represents nothing in terms of impairment
but rather shows whether or not someone has used or been around someone who used
mj...
you would have thought at least some sort of graduated(accurate)attempt... at proving impairment would have been undertaken by now
rather than just setting the numerical value so low that all it does is indicate use YES/NO
 

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
There is no current test that is accurate at determining cannabis impairment. Unlike alcohol, thc levels don't work as an indicator. Everyone has a different tolerance. The only thing that is going to work is an old-fashioned roadside sobriety test. Test for motor skills and ask a few questions. I can't wait for the judge to ask the Crown to present their 'expert' to explain how 2 ng is an indicator for anything, much less impaired driving.
 

Farmer.J

Well-Known Member
What are the limits for those on prescribed pain killers or anti-depressants? Those can impair way worse than pot. Sorry, Big Pharma says, "Don't go there Justin if you know what's good for you!" lol

Just play safe until some court challenges happen and some sanity raises it's head.
How am I supposed to play it safe? As a professional driver, even if I drive perfectly, I am still exposed to being pulled over by DOT's for random vehicle inspections. If one of these clowns decide to do a mouth swab, I'll fail. Then he hands me over to an RCMP who will conduct a blood analysis and I will likely be over 2ng.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Mouth swabs only show for an hour or so after smoking a joint. They used them on the rigs but only if they caught someone blazing out behind the mud tank or there was an incident. I was the water hauler on many and smoked pot with lots of the bosses.

Get into edibles when you're driving or take little hits on the pipe once in a while to make the miles go by faster. :)

I don't want to give up my class1 but might drop back to a 3 so I can go 5 years between medicals. Might be able to get some part time gigs hauling grain to the elevators this winter. Cash money.

It totally sux and I hope you never get fucked over for nothing.
 

Farmer.J

Well-Known Member
Mouth swabs only show for an hour or so after smoking a joint. They used them on the rigs but only if they caught someone blazing out behind the mud tank or there was an incident. I was the water hauler on many and smoked pot with lots of the bosses.

Get into edibles when you're driving or take little hits on the pipe once in a while to make the miles go by faster. :)

I don't want to give up my class1 but might drop back to a 3 so I can go 5 years between medicals. Might be able to get some part time gigs hauling grain to the elevators this winter. Cash money.

It totally sux and I hope you never get fucked over for nothing.
Yeah you are probably right, I don't blaze at work very often anyway, but I guarantee that my blood content is always over 2ng.

There are no medicals for class 3. I have had a class 3 for the last 12 years, never had to do a medical to get it or to keep it. Not sure if you can drop from a 1 to a 3 or how you can go about doing this, but I can understand why you would want to.
 
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