Roots fully submerged in water - cut them or not? (Pics)

LVsFINEST

Well-Known Member
These plants are semi young (30-26 days old), and are Dutch Passion (known for hermi-ing). So I don't want to stress these guys.

Should I cut the roots to avoid "the funk"? Or just let them be?

The brownness of the roots seen in the pics is because of the Bontanicare nutes I'm using. The submerged roots are pure white however. I don't have root rot (yet), and I don't want it. Cut them or no?
 

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Young Macdonald

Well-Known Member
dude im using botanicare nutes as well and i changed the rez yesterday and today the roots were starting to turn brown. Im hoping it was the liquid karma or grow nutes. I bought 3 more airstones and hooked em up and put about 6 tbsp of h202 in.. What botanicare nutes are you using and what strains. I currently have dutch passions mazar, barneys farm red d. and dutch passions blueberry in a 18 gallon rubermaid. 4 plants and 6 1 footer airstones!! You can literally never have too many airstones!

The SOLUTION to your problem is: Get a couple airstones and air pump in the bottom of that bitch!!! the roots in the bottom are drowning and rotting hence why their only brown on the bottom. they need oxygen in the bottom even if their getting it from the aeroponic side of it at the top.

Oh and yea i would do a little trimming on those unless you have hydrozome or however you spell it.
Hope this helped
 

hazee

Active Member
Whats the rez temp? Is your pump on a timer? Does that water sit without oxygenation: no airstones?

How does that top tub rest on top of your pump? Are those just rubbermaids?... Maybe I can add a bottom rez to mine...

Sorry about all the questions but the answer depends on what your temp/DO is like.
 

LVsFINEST

Well-Known Member
dude im using botanicare nutes as well and i changed the rez yesterday and today the roots were starting to turn brown. Im hoping it was the liquid karma or grow nutes. I bought 3 more airstones and hooked em up and put about 6 tbsp of h202 in.. What botanicare nutes are you using and what strains. I currently have dutch passions mazar, barneys farm red d. and dutch passions blueberry in a 18 gallon rubermaid. 4 plants and 6 1 footer airstones!! You can literally never have too many airstones!

The SOLUTION to your problem is: Get a couple airstones and air pump in the bottom of that bitch!!! the roots in the bottom are drowning and rotting hence why their only brown on the bottom. they need oxygen in the bottom even if their getting it from the aeroponic side of it at the top.

Oh and yea i would do a little trimming on those unless you have hydrozome or however you spell it.
Hope this helped

I'm using liquid Karma, Pure blend pro, and Cal-mag. But trust me, its the nutes dude, not root rot. Stinkbud uses these nutes and also has brown roots.

This is all Dutch Passion Blue Moonshine. I got 5 fems from attitude, grew one then cloned it. The EZclone misters aerate the water, and the roots are not supposed to be submerged. And because of the small resevoir/high water temp (82F), I don't think I should add another pump.

Also, the roots are pure *white* on the bottom (submerged part). So I haven't hit crisis mode (yet). The brownness is only visable when I open the top to show the misters and such.

So you don't think I should worry about stressing them and just cut them?
 

LVsFINEST

Well-Known Member
Whats the rez temp? Is your pump on a timer? Does that water sit without oxygenation: no airstones?

How does that top tub rest on top of your pump? Are those just rubbermaids?... Maybe I can add a bottom rez to mine...

Sorry about all the questions but the answer depends on what your temp/DO is like.
Temp stays around 82F (unfortunately). Pump is on a 6 min cyle - 1 min on, 5 off. Water is aerated via the EZclone misters.

The top tub does not sit on top of my pump. Those are 2 different size tubs, so there's plenty of room in between. The 10 gallon sits inside the 14 gallon. About 7 gallons of water + pump sit beneath the resevoir without the roots touching the water. Except when they grown downward like this, as seen in the pics. My last grow did this, but at day 30 of flowering! I had no issues cutting them then. But these are doing it alot, and early! These are still vegging!

And yes, these are rubbermaids, but the roughneck models. This is very important if you're doing a setup similar to this. Everything else will leak! (is what Stinkbud says). Roughnecks do not leak.

I highly encourage you to check out his post; He offers plenty of help, and even gives .PDF blueprints to all his designs!!! "Harvest a pound every three weeks!" is the title.
 

LVsFINEST

Well-Known Member
I guess since my temps are so high, adding another another pump for airstones isn't really a good idea. So my options are basically cut them or leave them...

So I guess it all boils down to this: Does leaving roots fully submerged for extended periods ALWAYS create problems? Or can I get away with it?
 

Fuzzotany

Well-Known Member
How is an airstone+pump gonna hurt ur temps? If you're that concerned about a tiny air pump toss the thing in a container secured over some ice in a styrofoam cooler, hell that'll help ur rez temp too.
 

Demosthenese

Well-Known Member
ok, so here's what you do.

82 F is too high, period. I'm really surprised your roots are as white as they are at those temps, it must be a testament to your sterilization or luck :P. Root rot will hit you at that temperature at some point in your grow unless you can get it down to at least 75 F and preferably between 68-72F.

Solutions: First, i can see that your res is not covered by any reflective coating. Go to the hardware store, grab some reflectix. It is attic insulation that looks bassically like aluminum foil sandwiched around bubble wrap. It reflects like 99% energy. Then, roll it out, make a sheet large enough to cover your lid, cut holes for the net pots and replace them with it covering the lid. Make it hang over the sides like and inch or two, or to the walls if you are in a small space, since this will block more light from hitting the sides of your res. Take the holes you cut out and cut a slit in them, then place them arround the base of the stems of your plants to cover the rocks and reflect more of the energy.
This will DRAMATICALLY lower your temperatures, by probably about 10 F. The reason is right now you are spraying the water onto the underside of a dark plastic lid that is directly being heated by your lights, and if you stop this then the only method of heat exchange your res will have is through the sides with the ambient air. It will still heat up over time, but i guarantee this is the cheapest most reliable way to get yourself into the safe zone. If you can raise your lights put the res on a couple bricks or 2x4's, just get it off the floor. Heat from the floor will be conducted slower if there is air insulating ur res from direct contact.

Second, start freezing ice in bottles your res looks a bit small for 2l bottles, so maybe smaller ones or even ice packs. Swapping in one 2l bottle lowers my 25L res by 7-10F. It will then rise back over 12 hours or so. I keep my temps between 64-74. If you are dilligent in watching the temps and are generally at home then this can be a solution to avoid a res chiller.

Third, definetly get an air stone. I have run my aero setup with and without one, and i've settled on adding one mostly for redundancy. At your temps though, every little bit of dissolved oxygen you can get in the water will help. In my setup the roots have at least 9 inches to hang in the air, and they only start to grow into the res at a late stage. Your res looks kind of shallow however, so i would guess the majority of the root mass will in fact end up submerged if you are vegging them in that setup. I have found with my aero plants that once the roots hit the water the plant starts building all it's roots there and starts to develop an underwater root ball which can end up being huge. With your system, i don't think i'd be comfortable without an airstone, and it certainly can't hurt, can only help. Cheap as hell too.

Finally, don't cut the roots unless they start to get slimy. It doesn't hurt the plants too much; in my system i have to untangle a bunch of dwc plants every month and they loose some roots in the process, but i've never even seen stress in the new growth as long as lots of roots are left. So you could cut em and you'd be fine. But there is no reason to in my opinion because ultimately you really have to solve that temp issue, and if you do then they will be able to sit in the water just fine. Get the temps down and grab a 10$ pump from a pet store.

Gl!
 

Young Macdonald

Well-Known Member
I'm using liquid Karma, Pure blend pro, and Cal-mag. But trust me, its the nutes dude, not root rot. Stinkbud uses these nutes and also has brown roots.

This is all Dutch Passion Blue Moonshine. I got 5 fems from attitude, grew one then cloned it. The EZclone misters aerate the water, and the roots are not supposed to be submerged. And because of the small resevoir/high water temp (82F), I don't think I should add another pump.

Also, the roots are pure *white* on the bottom (submerged part). So I haven't hit crisis mode (yet). The brownness is only visable when I open the top to show the misters and such.

So you don't think I should worry about stressing them and just cut them?
Wow i use those same nutes and i use them religiously. I think stinkbuds the one who got me using them. Next time around i think im going to go with AN sensi grow A and B (a step up) and eventually use connasuer with em on a future grow. Im curious to test out all the buzz growers have been puttin out about it. Do you have the feeding scedule document botanicare put out for the pure blends, cal-mag, liquid karma and others? If not i can post it...

Like Demosthenese said, unless they are slimey and your a 100% sure its not the nutes than it is fine to cut a bit of rootage off. Just dont ever cut more than a quarter of your total roots (i've heard more than that and you will see a signifiant dcrease in plant growth.
 

LVsFINEST

Well-Known Member
I guess since my temps are so high, adding another another pump for airstones isn't really a good idea. So my options are basically cut them or leave them...

So I guess it all boils down to this: Does leaving roots fully submerged for extended periods ALWAYS create problems? Or can I get away with it?
For some reason, I had it in my head that the air stone pump would have to be submerged in water thus creating additional heat. The pump is what I was worried about, not the stone itself.

But does the stone heat up at all?
 

LVsFINEST

Well-Known Member
ok, so here's what you do.

82 F is too high, period. I'm really surprised your roots are as white as they are at those temps, it must be a testament to your sterilization or luck :P. Root rot will hit you at that temperature at some point in your grow unless you can get it down to at least 75 F and preferably between 68-72F.

Solutions: First, i can see that your res is not covered by any reflective coating. Go to the hardware store, grab some reflectix. It is attic insulation that looks bassically like aluminum foil sandwiched around bubble wrap. It reflects like 99% energy. Then, roll it out, make a sheet large enough to cover your lid, cut holes for the net pots and replace them with it covering the lid. Make it hang over the sides like and inch or two, or to the walls if you are in a small space, since this will block more light from hitting the sides of your res. Take the holes you cut out and cut a slit in them, then place them arround the base of the stems of your plants to cover the rocks and reflect more of the energy.
This will DRAMATICALLY lower your temperatures, by probably about 10 F. The reason is right now you are spraying the water onto the underside of a dark plastic lid that is directly being heated by your lights, and if you stop this then the only method of heat exchange your res will have is through the sides with the ambient air. It will still heat up over time, but i guarantee this is the cheapest most reliable way to get yourself into the safe zone. If you can raise your lights put the res on a couple bricks or 2x4's, just get it off the floor. Heat from the floor will be conducted slower if there is air insulating ur res from direct contact.

Second, start freezing ice in bottles your res looks a bit small for 2l bottles, so maybe smaller ones or even ice packs. Swapping in one 2l bottle lowers my 25L res by 7-10F. It will then rise back over 12 hours or so. I keep my temps between 64-74. If you are dilligent in watching the temps and are generally at home then this can be a solution to avoid a res chiller.

Third, definetly get an air stone. I have run my aero setup with and without one, and i've settled on adding one mostly for redundancy. At your temps though, every little bit of dissolved oxygen you can get in the water will help. In my setup the roots have at least 9 inches to hang in the air, and they only start to grow into the res at a late stage. Your res looks kind of shallow however, so i would guess the majority of the root mass will in fact end up submerged if you are vegging them in that setup. I have found with my aero plants that once the roots hit the water the plant starts building all it's roots there and starts to develop an underwater root ball which can end up being huge. With your system, i don't think i'd be comfortable without an airstone, and it certainly can't hurt, can only help. Cheap as hell too.

Finally, don't cut the roots unless they start to get slimy. It doesn't hurt the plants too much; in my system i have to untangle a bunch of dwc plants every month and they loose some roots in the process, but i've never even seen stress in the new growth as long as lots of roots are left. So you could cut em and you'd be fine. But there is no reason to in my opinion because ultimately you really have to solve that temp issue, and if you do then they will be able to sit in the water just fine. Get the temps down and grab a 10$ pump from a pet store.

Gl!
Thank you for the feedback! And I know, I know, 82 is too high. I'm pretty sure it's not direct light that's causing the high temps tho, its just my cabinet in general. Temps have gotten up to 92 before (yikes!), but usually hover around 85-89 (yeah, I know). But if it is direct light that's causing it, it'd only be one side I'd have to worry about, the other 3 sides are not visible to the bulb. Pics attached to show you what I'm working with, things are pretty cramped.

My aeroponic units ARE small, and yes, I am both vegging and budding in this unit. It only holds about 7 gallons of water. I foresee myself having to refill this thing constantly once my 6 plants start budding. I didn't really have to do that the previous grow, it was only 1 plant (although water was changed every 3 weeks, roughly).

Also, this is my second grow. My first one went dam near flawlessly under these conditions.

I understand my conditions are not ideal, but this is all I've got. Its either this, or nothing. I choose this :). 3 out of 4 people living in this house have no idea that I'm growing and I would like to keep it that way. So I can't just add a bottle of ice whenever I feel like it. I can only work on my setup at random times (which makes things difficult). I will definitely give your first suggestion a try however, it can't hurt. As for the airstones, would they add any heat to my water?
 

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LVsFINEST

Well-Known Member
Wow i use those same nutes and i use them religiously. I think stinkbuds the one who got me using them. Next time around i think im going to go with AN sensi grow A and B (a step up) and eventually use connasuer with em on a future grow. Im curious to test out all the buzz growers have been puttin out about it. Do you have the feeding scedule document botanicare put out for the pure blends, cal-mag, liquid karma and others? If not i can post it...

Like Demosthenese said, unless they are slimey and your a 100% sure its not the nutes than it is fine to cut a bit of rootage off. Just dont ever cut more than a quarter of your total roots (i've heard more than that and you will see a signifiant dcrease in plant growth.
No I don't have the schedule...? Is that something you downloaded off their website?

My pump fell off my sprayers/pvc thingy (lol) last night when separating the res from the acutal unit. And in order to reattach the pump, the top must be lifted which would have pulled those roots up and off anyway. So I just cut them before reattaching the pump.
 

LVsFINEST

Well-Known Member
LV, are you rooting cuttings under a HPS cooltube? If so, why?
Cuttings initially go in the top room where you see 143 watts of 6500K fluorescents. When it's time for budding, they are moved to the bottom room where the 400w HPS resides.

Since I do not have any plants that are budding right now, I placed my 6 cuttings in the bottom room so they could enjoy the extra lumens and lower temp. Additional height is yet another reason.
 

LVsFINEST

Well-Known Member
LV, are you rooting cuttings under a HPS cooltube? If so, why?
Also, I guess I'm not "rooting" them, just vegging them (although not even that is accurate anymore; the cycle was switched to 12 hours just tonight). Roots sprouted during their first week up top while my first grow was finishing up in the lower room.
 

LVsFINEST

Well-Known Member
How is an airstone+pump gonna hurt ur temps? If you're that concerned about a tiny air pump toss the thing in a container secured over some ice in a styrofoam cooler, hell that'll help ur rez temp too.
LOL it looks like I quoted and replyed to my own post. This was meant for you:

For some reason, I had it in my head that the air stone pump would have to be submerged in water thus creating additional heat. The pump is what I was worried about, not the stone itself.

But does the stone heat up at all?

I see somebody just confirmed it will not create more heat, so I think I'm going to be adding one or 2 of these.
 

Young Macdonald

Well-Known Member
Adding a cheap 8 dollar airpump and a few airstones will in fact help cool your rez AND lessen your chances of root rot..(if youve got the ac going or good ventilation). You could even have the air pump outside your chamber, drill a few holes for the air tubing, and wallah! the pump would draw colder air from outside your chamber and shoot it right into your rez. I would guarantee atleast a 2-4 drop in temp.
 

brookstown

Active Member
you dont have to worry about cycling misters. the purpose of the cycle is to allow the roots to "breath". with the oxy coming from the mister you should let the pump run as long as the lights are on.
 
not using a air stone is bad juju man you water is lacking oxygen so the roots cant breathe just like the other guy said so air stone will not heat up in any way and algae will build up without one do to stagnant water
 
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