Roots Above Ground

Beansly

RIU Bulldog
The only thing "that is an answer to everything that grows" is knowing what a makes a plant tick, and it sure as hell aint Superthrive. :)

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/294633-superthrive-superjive.html
Duh, plants crave electrolytes.
BRONDO works wonders for me.

Alrigt, seriously though damn it. This is about me and my grow not us'e guys'z---lol

SO what ive learned about step-transplanting;

-Im an idiot
-I should do it
-Its pointless
-Thers nothing wrong with it
-It creates massive buds
-It's forum folklore made famous by someguy on an old shut-down weed forum
-It's a noob technique
-Growing w/ coco coir is not new, its been used by some old guy for 40 years

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All that being said, are these really fights necessary?
At the risk of drawing all the attention of the flames....quit fighting please....were on the same team....everyone just wants to get high

...im gonna say this again too...again; You shouldn't take any one source of information at face value. It doesn't take a community college course on Critical Thinking (i.e. making a fucking decision w/o letting your little emotions get in the way)
Every book, every movie, every "expert" (academic and self-proclaimed) opinion, every thread on some bullshit forum, every textbook, every label on a bottle, every claim made by a company- were all made by people.
People who have their own life experiences and opinions and "norms."
People with opinions.
Just because it's in a book, doesn't make it true or relevant.
I mean who the fuck is Jorge Cervantes anyways? (Rhetorical question trolls...)
What does jorge cervantes know about my closet, in my house, in las vegas?
What does jorge cervantes know about how much money I make, and have to spend on my grow?
Jorge Cervantes knows a lot about growing weed, but he don't know shit about me, and neither do most people on this board.
Don't get me wrong, his was the first book I bought,
but it's not the only one.

As far as the "if it's not used by commercial growers or nurseries" comment, i'm not sure thats entirely accurate. Commercial growers and nurseries main goal is to move their product, not really to create the most productive, beautiful plants possible. They just have to make the plants good enough to move it out the door. For example, it's debated still, but most growers in the know, realize what good unsulphured blackstrap molasses can do for a grow. But molasses are relatively expensive. Im sure that when nurseries fertilize, they do so with cheaper choices.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
You need to do some research man Jorge Cervantes didn't even write that book none of the pictures are of anything he grew . I can tell you haven't been doing much research because you are quoting a bullshit book . I got the bible but what you dont know is that book is a copy cat of another book by the same author and publisher it was remarketed to be appealing to new medical growers .
I have the original to prove it if ya like ! I just wiped the dust off mine haven't needed since I,ve found it's a bullshit ripoff!
I need to piggyback on your comments. I have the book before its release, with a note of thanks from the man himself. I'm not gonna go into the politics, biz deal and all of it, but you are correct, most (if not all) of the contents of that book was contributed by Jorge's friends and mainly OG members, myself included. As an active member at OG, I was pissed when I heard of what was going down, essentially taking the work of OG members, lifting the text and photos, and then making money off it. I got over it. Jorge DID credit every one that contributed to his Bible in the preface.

There is some inaccurate, incorrect info like the popularly held value of molasses. Jorge got the technique of Spin-Out root control incorrect, it does not turn roots up as he stated in the book. At least my photos on pages 69 - 70 show the intended effect, which were lifted directly from a thread at OG. BUT, all in all, the photos are worth their weight in gold and the chapter on Lighting is about the best I've seen any where. My favorite book for its accuracy and down-to-earth, accurate, leveled headed botanically sound material is Mel Frank's book - The MJ Insiders Grow Guide. IMO, Cervantes and the others can't hold a candle to that "old" book.

My only fight is to challenge the all prevailing hype in this biz. I showed you my results Beansly, let's see the evidence that yanking a rootball out of its natural environment has any merit. It's all about root mass, uptake, efficiency and effectiveness.... is it not? Of is "it" another cheesey gimmick without any real world merit or explanation which can not be linked directly on a cause/effect basis? Like I said, if it's not a widely accepted practice by the (normal) commercial gardening trade, it has no merit, PERIOD. Also, it's a scientific fact that your bud yield is directly driven by the mass and health of the root system and foliage (all else considered like genetics, etc.) .....a (common sense) concept some can't wrap their mind around. There are empirical scientific gardening trials available on the web. No opinion, no HT cheese - science.

As an aside, plants don't need outside electrolytes, hormones, enyzmes. They manufacture their own. It's gullible kids who need the snake oils and salesmen who tell them what they want to hear.

"We're all dreamers, and conmen fulfill that dream."

UB
 

Ursus

Active Member
I think it really doesn't matter. I have plants that naturally do this. If the roots are exposed they harden and thicken. If stems are partially buried they start growing roots.
I haven't posted here in ages! This post pretty much sums up the whole thread. Good to see UB spreading his knowledge again :clap: Ben, i wanted to ask tho, if you frequented icmag or not, have you heard of the defoliation method for cannabis?
 

Noobmeister

Active Member
I never said all the information in the book was his, I said he's the author of it. An author is - somebody who compiles either his own story and account or uses other's stories. The first couple pages of the book accredit respect and the ideas to the people he acquired them from I think it is two pages of names. I never said all of the information in the book was his, I said he was the author of the book. When a book comes into circulation, usually there is an author behind it. Usually, the author, if it is a journal of other people's work, would have to accredit the people who he acquires the information from. IT doesn't say on those pages, "I got this information from this person", so how could I properly accredit credit where it is due? Now, because y'all were proven wrong on the issues I was referring to, you have to pull out some pathetic attempt at making me look like a "smart ass"??? The only people looking like smartasses are yourselves. . . Really. Y'all really need to grow up and use some common sense. You guys take things so personally, all of you, and you let your immatured ego's get in the way of common sense and being able to compromise what is important and what is the topic of discussion. Now, because you see your arguement lacked certain validity, we pull in, "He didn't write that book", etc, etc. Well, yes, he did, he is the author of it, no, not all of the information is his own, and yes, as any AUTHOR does, he accredited credit where it was due - even to you UB, in this age in time it is common sense that nobody can write a book on any topic without the ideas within the novel being somebody else's. . . Are you kidding me that this is the childish argument you have now pursued?

I never once argued about the significance of root mass and vigor, I also commented on this importance. You can refer to both the MJ Insiders, and Medical Bible (As I stated I have a library of novels, I was simply referring to the simplest and most basic of the books - Jorges Cervantes' medical Bible - though you will continue to find an arguement in anything and everything I say and say there are more basic novels than that, and again I would agree and again nor was that the point I was making) and you will also find information in both about the significance of oxygen uptake on the roots. By increasing the oxygen flow to the roots and the amount of oxygen uptake by the roots you can also effectively nearly or more than double production (Depending on techniques, nutrients, plants size (By plant size I mean leaves and roots and everything in-between). Hence, why aeration has become so popular in recent years. I never said anything about plants needing "electrolytes, hormones, or enzymes either", although, yes they need hormones, electrolytes and enzymes. If it were not for hormones within the plant, the plant would not grow roots, or leaves seperately, it would be either a mass of leaves and stem or a ball of roots, but you need one to have the other, and hormones regulate this. Enzymes are crucial in the breaking down and absorption of energy and nutrients VIA the roots (As they produce certain chemical changes in organic substances by catalytic action resulting in the decomposition and conversion of nutrients for their uptake into the plant). Also, just like the other two, without electrolytes, life would cease to exist as they are any of certain inorganic compounds, mainly sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium, (Potassium and magnesium we feed to the plants to encourage rapid and healthy growth - do we not???) chloride, and bicarbonate, that dissociate in biological fluids into ions capable of conducting electrical currents and constituting a major force in controlling fluid balance within a living organism (Plant or animal).

I don't know how we could grow a plant without electrolytes as they are responsible for the distribution of nutrients throughout the plant, and by distributing them throughout the plant where they are needed, the plants grow IE Magnesium, Potassium, Calcium, etc.
I don't know how we could grow a plant without enzymes as they are responsible for the uptake of nutrients INTO the plant so that the electrolytes can move them around throughout the plant where the HORMONES tell the plant the nutrients (Absorbed as a result of enzymes) where they are needed.
I don't know how we could grow a plant without hormones, as the plant wouldn't grow, because it wouldn't think it needed to!

Hormones tell the plant where nutrients are needed! The Electrolytes are the driving force or energy which circulates the nutrients throughout the plant. The enzymes are responsible and accredited to the uptake of nutrients through the roots!!! Holy crap people, these are fundamentals once again! Grade 6 science for Pete's Sake!

Without OUTSIDE enzymes, electrolytes, and hormones, the plant would not be able to create its own and would not grow and would cease to exist. This is why you FEED your plants A and B nutes when growing hydroponicly, this is why you grow your plants in soil instead of in plain hydroton rocks or rockwool cubes, because without those OUTSIDE enzymes, electrolytes and hormones, the plant cannot create enzymes, cannot create electrolytes and cannot create hormones. It's all interconnected, I don't see your logic in the matter.

You try growing a plant in a pillowcase without watering it or giving it nutrients and fertilizers and tell me how that goes. What do fertilizers provide? N-P-K, The three fundamental building bones of electrolytes, therefor hormones, and coincidentally, therefor enzymes.

Lastly:

What does jorge cervantes know about my closet, in my house, in las vegas?
What does jorge cervantes know about how much money I make, and have to spend on my grow?
WHAT the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING?!? His book is a GUIDE, not a reflection of your life FFS, grow up brotha. . . Seriously!

He doesn't know you, so he doesn't know anything about your closet in your house and how much you made and can use towards your illegal grow operation. That isn't the point of the book either. The purpose of the book is to be an amature grower's guide on the most simplistic and basic of principles in regards to growing medical grade marijuana so that you can come up with your own ideas on how to spend your money and how to use your closet for your illegal or legal grow operations. Let's grow up a little and think about things before we say them. . . PLEASE, ALL OF YOU!

For fuck sake, before I ever bother to respond on this thread again, I am going to have to sit here and read, then re-read, and super extra re-read my posts to make sure there is no slight way in which my opinion can be manipulated and misconstrued. We were talking about lifting roots out of the ground, now you are talking about "
What does jorge cervantes know about my closet, in my house, in las vegas?
What does jorge cervantes know about how much money I make, and have to spend on my grow?
"

C'mon guys, for those of us who completed high school, high school died years ago, as did it's drama and character.

"We're all dreamers, and conmen fulfill that dream." and that is why I tried to mellow the mood earlier and present some logical and scientifically reinforced information to help the rest of us that are the same, however there is little appreciation for this "We're all dreamers, and conmen fulfill that dream" on this thread. It's "I am the dream maker, and I am the only one that can fulfill that dream". . . . apparently. . .
 

kingofqueen

Well-Known Member
This would all make sense if someone could say that the name Jorge Cervantes is an alias for George F. Van Patton because the bulk of the book is exactly the same a the 5th Edition Gardening Indoors with Soil and Hydroponics by George F. Van Patton originally written in 1986.
When I say the same I mean verbatim .
 

kingofqueen

Well-Known Member
That is my only beef here , whats the relation between the two books ? I bought the first one just on whim i saw it at my nursery. Then about 2 weeks later low and behold they sell the Medical Bible at Barnes and Nobles , shit let me scrape up what few dollars I have and go and buy it I was excited as hell that I was purchasing some bonafide original growing information .

So to my disappointment I find that I,m reading the same paragraphs and chapters as the other book the chapter list is even the same.
I felt so ripped off almost 60 dollars between the 2 books , so I hope this clears up where I,m coming from with all this on my end , I can't be the only person this has happend to . All u get in the 2nd book is pictures, they replace the word plant with marijauna.,and added chapters on hash making .


Sorry your thread is getting effed up Beansly
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
I haven't posted here in ages! This post pretty much sums up the whole thread. Good to see UB spreading his knowledge again :clap: Ben, i wanted to ask tho, if you frequented icmag or not, have you heard of the defoliation method for cannabis?
I was quickly banned for getting into BOG's and Rezdog's shit plus there was alot going doing down between the PoM and Gypsy debacle.

Gypsy and I were tight at one time, such that he sent me Zamal seeds and such and hooked me up with his breeder friend on La Reunion. Haven't been back to the place in a long time.

Heh, cannabis forums are all the same.

UB
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
OK, so much for theory, books, and cheesey cannabis mags....this is where the rubber meets the road. I just took these pictures of a recently harvested outdoor's grown plant. This is what I'm talkin' about fellers.

Pot showing high soil level. I did two additions of soil to the pot after it was put into the field to bring the level to where it's shown.(You really need to open up these photos to see the detail!)

View attachment 1190671

Here's a couple of shots showing a dense mass of roots induced by burying the plant deep. I blasted the soil off the top of the rootball "for your viewing pleasure". :D

View attachment 1190688

View attachment 1190697

Rootball popped out. Notice the roots that grew through the drain holes? There's a method to my madness. :p

I dug a 3" deep hole, dropped the pot in, packed native soil around it in order to increase root mass/uptake. This Bendejo drill has several advantages - it provides for a convenient watering well and it "recycles" your additions of salts and water. IOW, the foods and water I place into the pot goes into native soil, the root system grows out of the drain holes and uptakes the water/salts. Viola, reduced maintenance and better plant health/vigor!

Was this plant potbound or what!?


View attachment 1190713

Tio Bendejo

.
What, no comments on post #59 from the "Roots High Klan"? :p

UB
.
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
I never said all the information in the book was his, I said he's the author of it. An author is - somebody who compiles either his own story and account or uses other's stories. The first couple pages of the book accredit respect and the ideas to the people he acquired them from I think it is two pages of names. I never said all of the information in the book was his, I said he was the author of the book. When a book comes into circulation, usually there is an author behind it. Usually, the author, if it is a journal of other people's work, would have to accredit the people who he acquires the information from. IT doesn't say on those pages, "I got this information from this person", so how could I properly accredit credit where it is due? Now, because y'all were proven wrong on the issues I was referring to, you have to pull out some pathetic attempt at making me look like a "smart ass"??? The only people looking like smartasses are yourselves. . . Really. Y'all really need to grow up and use some common sense. You guys take things so personally, all of you, and you let your immatured ego's get in the way of common sense and being able to compromise what is important and what is the topic of discussion. Now, because you see your arguement lacked certain validity, we pull in, "He didn't write that book", etc, etc. Well, yes, he did, he is the author of it, no, not all of the information is his own, and yes, as any AUTHOR does, he accredited credit where it was due - even to you UB, in this age in time it is common sense that nobody can write a book on any topic without the ideas within the novel being somebody else's. . . Are you kidding me that this is the childish argument you have now pursued?

I never once argued about the significance of root mass and vigor, I also commented on this importance. You can refer to both the MJ Insiders, and Medical Bible (As I stated I have a library of novels, I was simply referring to the simplest and most basic of the books - Jorges Cervantes' medical Bible - though you will continue to find an arguement in anything and everything I say and say there are more basic novels than that, and again I would agree and again nor was that the point I was making) and you will also find information in both about the significance of oxygen uptake on the roots. By increasing the oxygen flow to the roots and the amount of oxygen uptake by the roots you can also effectively nearly or more than double production (Depending on techniques, nutrients, plants size (By plant size I mean leaves and roots and everything in-between). Hence, why aeration has become so popular in recent years. I never said anything about plants needing "electrolytes, hormones, or enzymes either", although, yes they need hormones, electrolytes and enzymes. If it were not for hormones within the plant, the plant would not grow roots, or leaves seperately, it would be either a mass of leaves and stem or a ball of roots, but you need one to have the other, and hormones regulate this. Enzymes are crucial in the breaking down and absorption of energy and nutrients VIA the roots (As they produce certain chemical changes in organic substances by catalytic action resulting in the decomposition and conversion of nutrients for their uptake into the plant). Also, just like the other two, without electrolytes, life would cease to exist as they are any of certain inorganic compounds, mainly sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium, (Potassium and magnesium we feed to the plants to encourage rapid and healthy growth - do we not???) chloride, and bicarbonate, that dissociate in biological fluids into ions capable of conducting electrical currents and constituting a major force in controlling fluid balance within a living organism (Plant or animal).

I don't know how we could grow a plant without electrolytes as they are responsible for the distribution of nutrients throughout the plant, and by distributing them throughout the plant where they are needed, the plants grow IE Magnesium, Potassium, Calcium, etc.
I don't know how we could grow a plant without enzymes as they are responsible for the uptake of nutrients INTO the plant so that the electrolytes can move them around throughout the plant where the HORMONES tell the plant the nutrients (Absorbed as a result of enzymes) where they are needed.
I don't know how we could grow a plant without hormones, as the plant wouldn't grow, because it wouldn't think it needed to!

Hormones tell the plant where nutrients are needed! The Electrolytes are the driving force or energy which circulates the nutrients throughout the plant. The enzymes are responsible and accredited to the uptake of nutrients through the roots!!! Holy crap people, these are fundamentals once again! Grade 6 science for Pete's Sake!

Without OUTSIDE enzymes, electrolytes, and hormones, the plant would not be able to create its own and would not grow and would cease to exist. This is why you FEED your plants A and B nutes when growing hydroponicly, this is why you grow your plants in soil instead of in plain hydroton rocks or rockwool cubes, because without those OUTSIDE enzymes, electrolytes and hormones, the plant cannot create enzymes, cannot create electrolytes and cannot create hormones. It's all interconnected, I don't see your logic in the matter.

You try growing a plant in a pillowcase without watering it or giving it nutrients and fertilizers and tell me how that goes. What do fertilizers provide? N-P-K, The three fundamental building bones of electrolytes, therefor hormones, and coincidentally, therefor enzymes.

Lastly:



WHAT the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING?!? His book is a GUIDE, not a reflection of your life FFS, grow up brotha. . . Seriously!

He doesn't know you, so he doesn't know anything about your closet in your house and how much you made and can use towards your illegal grow operation. That isn't the point of the book either. The purpose of the book is to be an amature grower's guide on the most simplistic and basic of principles in regards to growing medical grade marijuana so that you can come up with your own ideas on how to spend your money and how to use your closet for your illegal or legal grow operations. Let's grow up a little and think about things before we say them. . . PLEASE, ALL OF YOU!

For fuck sake, before I ever bother to respond on this thread again, I am going to have to sit here and read, then re-read, and super extra re-read my posts to make sure there is no slight way in which my opinion can be manipulated and misconstrued. We were talking about lifting roots out of the ground, now you are talking about ""

C'mon guys, for those of us who completed high school, high school died years ago, as did it's drama and character.

"We're all dreamers, and conmen fulfill that dream." and that is why I tried to mellow the mood earlier and present some logical and scientifically reinforced information to help the rest of us that are the same, however there is little appreciation for this "We're all dreamers, and conmen fulfill that dream" on this thread. It's "I am the dream maker, and I am the only one that can fulfill that dream". . . . apparently. . .
Wow, that was quite a post! I just want to address the part I highlighted. I've got some bad news for you. Plants don't take up enzymes and hormones. They make them. Plants need a few things; Water, light, air (CO2), and nutrients (N,P,K, and the secondary and micronutrients). Plants use all of these things combined to produce carbohydrates, sugars, proteins, enzymes and hormones, among other things. I am not going to debate the efficacy of certain MJ specific plant additives and boosters. I personally think most of them are bunk or simply a nutrient or nutrients that most of us are already giving the plants. When it comes to growing cannabis, there are a lot of myths and mystique because of its elicit nature. These myths are very hard to debunk because of this. I've tried a few of these "boosters" and miracle plant tonics and I've noticed virtually no improvement in yield or quality. Why? Because I try to provide my plants with the right things at the right times, in the right amounts and create as natural an environment for them as possible. If everyone would just do these simple things there would be a lot more success stories on here and not a bunch of newbs with a laundry list of additives and no clue as to why their plants are sick. :sad:
 

doc111

Well-Known Member
Here is a great article on the structure of roots and how they function:

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/R/Roots.html

Here is another one that goes a little more in depth and talks about how roots take up water and nutrients:

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sciences/botanicalsciences/PlantsStructure/Roots/Roots.htm

And finally I pasted this link which talks about osmosis:

http://www.purchon.com/biology/osmosis.htm



Definition
Osmosis is the passage of water from a region of high water concentration through a semi-permeable membrane to a region of low water concentration.



The definition contains three important statements:
  1. Osmosis is the passage of water from a region of high water concentration through a semi-permeable membrane to a region of low water concentration.
  2. Osmosis is the passage of water from a region of high water concentration through a semi-permeable membrane to a region of low water concentration.
  3. Osmosis is the passage of water from a region of high water concentration through a semi-permeable membrane to a region of low water concentration.
I wanted to put the definition of osmosis in here because it is so important in how a root functions. Understanding this basic scientific principle also helps us understand that roots don't necessarily take in everything that we give them. A semi-permeable membrane allows certain molecules through while not allowing others. I am oversimplifying a bit but a semi-permeable membrane basically has tiny holes in it that are just big enough and the correct shape to take up the specific molecules it needs. Most sugars, enzymes, and proteins will not even come close to fitting through that membrane. Nothing you can do will force these things through without killing the plant. It has to have this semi-permeable membrane in order to select the good and prevent the bad stuff from getting in. Hope this helps.:weed:

Edit: I just wanted to add that what I have included here is a simplified version of how roots work. Within the second link I provided are some more links which discuss plant nutrition, water and nutrient uptake, plant hormones and their functions and a whole bunch of other really good stuff on botany. Enjoy.:leaf:
 
Without OUTSIDE enzymes, electrolytes, and hormones, the plant would not be able to create its own and would not grow and would cease to exist. This is why you FEED your plants A and B nutes when growing hydroponicly, this is why you grow your plants in soil instead of in plain hydroton rocks or rockwool cubes, because without those OUTSIDE enzymes, electrolytes and hormones, the plant cannot create enzymes, cannot create electrolytes and cannot create hormones. It's all interconnected, I don't see your logic in the matter.
LMFAO...I love when people attempt to bullshit others when they have no idea what they're talking about. :dunce:

But really, I need to go to the store now. I have to pick up some glucose oxidase, (an enzyme) a shit ton of gatorade (for electrolytes) and I have to ask the guy at the nursery about hormone replacement therapy for my plants :roll::lol:
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
LMFAO...I love when people attempt to bullshit others when they have no idea what they're talking about. :dunce:

But really, I need to go to the store now. I have to pick up some glucose oxidase, (an enzyme) a shit ton of gatorade (for electrolytes) and I have to ask the guy at the nursery about hormone replacement therapy for my plants :roll::lol:
.....and don't forget to drop by the Quantum Biofeedback Lab. ;)
 

canefan

Well-Known Member
Here is a great article on the structure of roots and how they function:

http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/R/Roots.html

Here is another one that goes a little more in depth and talks about how roots take up water and nutrients:

http://www.cartage.org.lb/en/themes/sciences/botanicalsciences/PlantsStructure/Roots/Roots.htm

And finally I pasted this link which talks about osmosis:

http://www.purchon.com/biology/osmosis.htm



Definition
Osmosis is the passage of water from a region of high water concentration through a semi-permeable membrane to a region of low water concentration.



The definition contains three important statements:
  1. Osmosis is the passage of water from a region of high water concentration through a semi-permeable membrane to a region of low water concentration.
  2. Osmosis is the passage of water from a region of high water concentration through a semi-permeable membrane to a region of low water concentration.
  3. Osmosis is the passage of water from a region of high water concentration through a semi-permeable membrane to a region of low water concentration.
I wanted to put the definition of osmosis in here because it is so important in how a root functions. Understanding this basic scientific principle also helps us understand that roots don't necessarily take in everything that we give them. A semi-permeable membrane allows certain molecules through while not allowing others. I am oversimplifying a bit but a semi-permeable membrane basically has tiny holes in it that are just big enough and the correct shape to take up the specific molecules it needs. Most sugars, enzymes, and proteins will not even come close to fitting through that membrane. Nothing you can do will force these things through without killing the plant. It has to have this semi-permeable membrane in order to select the good and prevent the bad stuff from getting in. Hope this helps.:weed:

Edit: I just wanted to add that what I have included here is a simplified version of how roots work. Within the second link I provided are some more links which discuss plant nutrition, water and nutrient uptake, plant hormones and their functions and a whole bunch of other really good stuff on botany. Enjoy.:leaf:
doc111 Thanks for the links. I have many volumes of books but for posting here it is always nice to have some quick links to share instead of typing out of a book to explain a point. Also need to include Uncle Ben with his links and words of wisdom.
Happy Growing to all and everyone keep reading and learning.
 
I never said all the information in the book was his, I said he's the author of it. An author is - somebody who compiles either his own story and account or uses other's stories. The first couple pages of the book accredit respect and the ideas to the people he acquired them from I think it is two pages of names. I never said all of the information in the book was his, I said he was the author of the book. When a book comes into circulation, usually there is an author behind it. Usually, the author, if it is a journal of other people's work, would have to accredit the people who he acquires the information from. IT doesn't say on those pages, "I got this information from this person", so how could I properly accredit credit where it is due? Now, because y'all were proven wrong on the issues I was referring to, you have to pull out some pathetic attempt at making me look like a "smart ass"??? The only people looking like smartasses are yourselves. . . Really. Y'all really need to grow up and use some common sense. You guys take things so personally, all of you, and you let your immatured ego's get in the way of common sense and being able to compromise what is important and what is the topic of discussion. Now, because you see your arguement lacked certain validity, we pull in, "He didn't write that book", etc, etc. Well, yes, he did, he is the author of it, no, not all of the information is his own, and yes, as any AUTHOR does, he accredited credit where it was due - even to you UB, in this age in time it is common sense that nobody can write a book on any topic without the ideas within the novel being somebody else's. . . Are you kidding me that this is the childish argument you have now pursued?

I never once argued about the significance of root mass and vigor, I also commented on this importance. You can refer to both the MJ Insiders, and Medical Bible (As I stated I have a library of novels, I was simply referring to the simplest and most basic of the books - Jorges Cervantes' medical Bible - though you will continue to find an arguement in anything and everything I say and say there are more basic novels than that, and again I would agree and again nor was that the point I was making) and you will also find information in both about the significance of oxygen uptake on the roots. By increasing the oxygen flow to the roots and the amount of oxygen uptake by the roots you can also effectively nearly or more than double production (Depending on techniques, nutrients, plants size (By plant size I mean leaves and roots and everything in-between). Hence, why aeration has become so popular in recent years. I never said anything about plants needing "electrolytes, hormones, or enzymes either", although, yes they need hormones, electrolytes and enzymes. If it were not for hormones within the plant, the plant would not grow roots, or leaves seperately, it would be either a mass of leaves and stem or a ball of roots, but you need one to have the other, and hormones regulate this. Enzymes are crucial in the breaking down and absorption of energy and nutrients VIA the roots (As they produce certain chemical changes in organic substances by catalytic action resulting in the decomposition and conversion of nutrients for their uptake into the plant). Also, just like the other two, without electrolytes, life would cease to exist as they are any of certain inorganic compounds, mainly sodium, potassium, magnesium, calcium, (Potassium and magnesium we feed to the plants to encourage rapid and healthy growth - do we not???) chloride, and bicarbonate, that dissociate in biological fluids into ions capable of conducting electrical currents and constituting a major force in controlling fluid balance within a living organism (Plant or animal).

I don't know how we could grow a plant without electrolytes as they are responsible for the distribution of nutrients throughout the plant, and by distributing them throughout the plant where they are needed, the plants grow IE Magnesium, Potassium, Calcium, etc.
I don't know how we could grow a plant without enzymes as they are responsible for the uptake of nutrients INTO the plant so that the electrolytes can move them around throughout the plant where the HORMONES tell the plant the nutrients (Absorbed as a result of enzymes) where they are needed.
I don't know how we could grow a plant without hormones, as the plant wouldn't grow, because it wouldn't think it needed to!

Hormones tell the plant where nutrients are needed! The Electrolytes are the driving force or energy which circulates the nutrients throughout the plant. The enzymes are responsible and accredited to the uptake of nutrients through the roots!!! Holy crap people, these are fundamentals once again! Grade 6 science for Pete's Sake!

Without OUTSIDE enzymes, electrolytes, and hormones, the plant would not be able to create its own and would not grow and would cease to exist. This is why you FEED your plants A and B nutes when growing hydroponicly, this is why you grow your plants in soil instead of in plain hydroton rocks or rockwool cubes, because without those OUTSIDE enzymes, electrolytes and hormones, the plant cannot create enzymes, cannot create electrolytes and cannot create hormones. It's all interconnected, I don't see your logic in the matter.

You try growing a plant in a pillowcase without watering it or giving it nutrients and fertilizers and tell me how that goes. What do fertilizers provide? N-P-K, The three fundamental building bones of electrolytes, therefor hormones, and coincidentally, therefor enzymes.

Lastly:



WHAT the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING?!? His book is a GUIDE, not a reflection of your life FFS, grow up brotha. . . Seriously!

He doesn't know you, so he doesn't know anything about your closet in your house and how much you made and can use towards your illegal grow operation. That isn't the point of the book either. The purpose of the book is to be an amature grower's guide on the most simplistic and basic of principles in regards to growing medical grade marijuana so that you can come up with your own ideas on how to spend your money and how to use your closet for your illegal or legal grow operations. Let's grow up a little and think about things before we say them. . . PLEASE, ALL OF YOU!

For fuck sake, before I ever bother to respond on this thread again, I am going to have to sit here and read, then re-read, and super extra re-read my posts to make sure there is no slight way in which my opinion can be manipulated and misconstrued. We were talking about lifting roots out of the ground, now you are talking about ""

C'mon guys, for those of us who completed high school, high school died years ago, as did it's drama and character.

"We're all dreamers, and conmen fulfill that dream." and that is why I tried to mellow the mood earlier and present some logical and scientifically reinforced information to help the rest of us that are the same, however there is little appreciation for this "We're all dreamers, and conmen fulfill that dream" on this thread. It's "I am the dream maker, and I am the only one that can fulfill that dream". . . . apparently. . .

It would be a lot easier to take a non-biased fair view of Noobmeisters post if he was polite and courteous. When someone like that starts talking like a asshole its hard to comprehend and find the good parts in what they say. I was always told that you have to learn how to listen before you learn how to be heard. Thanks UB for all the great advice from what has worked for you over all these years. Everyone's process is different, whether good or bad, it only matters in what works for you.
 

secretweapon

Active Member
maybe they were going for something like this. i just bought a bunch of pots.
[video=youtube;-NUjNBKex0I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NUjNBKex0I[/video]
 

GrowinSmoke

Member
Sorry for reviving an old thread, but I see no point in making a new one when there is so much good information here.

One question I do not see answered specifically: Assuming the same size pot, is there benefit to re-potting your root mass higher if you can generate more roots? I understand the argument that roots at the surface do not function like roots below the surface. I question if the additional soil utilized below the "surface roots" can improve the overall yield of the plant despite the inefficiencies of the "surface roots".

My particular situation does not allow me to grow tall pants, and transplant the rootball/stalk lower like I see uncle ben has done with great success.
 

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ricky6991

Well-Known Member
My plants have top roots showing last 4 weeks in flowering cause didnt pack my soil when transplanting so after watering so many time it compacted down. Had me nervous until i read this thread... plants are healthy an seem to not be bothered by it.
 

ghb

Well-Known Member
getting back to the original subject, i have tried this and it has it's benefits and draw backs.

benefits: it makes it a lot harder to overwater and eventually you will have a larger root mass.

draw backs: plants are less stable and more likely to lean or fall over and you will take longer to grow a large root mass.
 
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