ROOT ROT, i think, maybe Brown Algae... whats best?

PersonalJesus

Active Member
I'm sorry I can't post pics till after 5pm-ish, after I get home from work AND my light is on.

I think I may have root rot or brown algae or what is the start of either... I noticed this morning, right before my light went out, what appeared to be the beginning of brown-ness in the root mass in my combo DWC/Top-Feed system. This "brown-ness" of/in my roots was not present, or not enough to be noticeable yesterday a.m.

My reservoir is only 5 gallons, but I know the temps in the res don't climb higher than room temp. The ladies are in week 2 of veg, temps are 75-77 night and 80-83 day in my enclosed cabinet grow, pH was a little high at 6.4 ( I have adjusted that down already ), ppm's are good, I did a res change yesterday at 50% strength nutes. I have no light leaks in my res.

How can I tell the difference between rot and brown algae?
What can I do to treat and what can I do to solve this problem?
Is there anything I can do that is effective for both?

I've heard of AquaShield/Great White, SM-90, and "teas"... what are they, whats the difference between them?

Please Help, I don't want my ladies to die!!! Any and all info and suggestions is appreciated!!! Good Karma to all!!!
 

RetiredMatthebrute

Well-Known Member
sounds like root rot, temps are way too high, freeze some 2 liter soda bottles full of water and use them in the rez to keep temps down. your going to need to do a rez change and rinse out the rez with a H2O2 solution and then wash the roots off with a H2O2 solution. then put them back in a fresh clean rez. it dosent hurt to add a little H2O2 directly to your rez this will help prevent root rot. but the main thing is you need to keep them temps way down, if they are hitting in the 80's that is definatly the reason your getting root rot.

make sure you do a little research on which H2O2 solution to use and at what strength is safe to put into your rez and wash the roots with.

good luck
 

nick17gar

Well-Known Member
i had root rot when i did DWC. i got a screen/mesh thing and made a hammock type deal, between the mesh pots the plants sit (under the lid kinda) and the top of the water level. this kept the roots out of the water, but they stayed wet cuz of the dripping water from above. add a little fungus/rot killer to the water after you elevate the roots and no more rot. the other option is to buy bigger mesh pots, and staple them to the underside of the lid, so they catch the roots. seems like more work to me tho.
your water temps are fine.
another option is to add more air pumps + stones.
 

PersonalJesus

Active Member
I got some AquaSheild... I'm gonna try using it at pretty low strength. Any suggestions on dosage or frequency? I'm gonna start with 1 teaspoon per 1 gallon and wait 4 days... Sound solid?
The guy at the grow store also suggested letting the AquqSheild "brew"? But, he wouldn't commit to saying I should or shouldn't?
 

maps84

Well-Known Member
Use a combination of H2o2 and Hygrozyme, change the solution each day until the problem recedes. Foliar Feed your plant meanwhile with mild nutes.
 

woodsmaneh!

Well-Known Member
Use a combination of H2o2 and Hygrozyme, change the solution each day until the problem recedes. Foliar Feed your plant meanwhile with mild nutes.

H2O2 will fix it if anything will, here is the info you need to save your plants..

Hydrogen Peroxide and Horticulture

Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) is a clear sharp smelling substance very similar in appearance to water (H2O). Like water it is made up of Hydrogen and Oxygen; however H2O2 has an extra Oxygen atom in an unstable arrangement. It is this extra atom that gives H2O2 its useful properties. H2O2 has been used for many purposes including cleaning, bleaching, sterilizing, rocket fuel, and animal feed treatment and in addition many miraculous claims about its health benefits have been made. This article isn't about any of these; instead it will concentrate on horticultural applications. H2O2 is of great use for hydroponics and dirt/soilless gardening.
1. What Does Hydrogen Peroxide do?
H2O2 is an unstable molecule, when it breaks down a single oxygen atom and a molecule of water is released. This oxygen atom is extremely reactive and will attach itself to either another O- atom forming a stable Oxygen molecule or attack a nearby organic molecule. Both the stable and O- forms will increase the level of dissolved oxygen. This is the method by which H2O2 is beneficial. Pre-treating the water supply with H2O2 will drive out the Chlorine many cities use to sterilize it. This will also degrade any pesticides or herbicides that might be present as well as any other organic matter. Well water can be high in methane and organic sulfates, both of which H2O2 will remove. Many disease causing organisms and spores are killed by Oxygen, the free Oxygen H2O2 releases is extremely effective at this. H2O2 will help eliminate existing infections and will help prevent future ones. It is also useful for suppressing algae growth. The free Oxygen atom will destroy dead organic material (i.e, leaves roots) in the system preventing them from rotting and spreading diseases.
2. Over Watering
Roots require Oxygen to breathe and low levels are the main cause of almost all root diseases. Both soil and hydroponic plants often fall prey to the same syndrome although it is rarely recognized as what it really is. Hydroponic crops often fail due to "root rot" and soil crops succumb to "over watering." The real cause of both these problems is a shortage of Oxygen at the root zone. In a soil system the soil consists of particles, a film of water on the particles and air spaces between the particles. When too much water is put into the soil the air spaces fill with liquid. The roots will quickly use up what Oxygen is dissolved in the water; if they haven't drunk enough of the liquid to allow air back in to the soil spaces they will stop working. In this situation roots will start dying within twenty-four hours. As the roots die the plants ability to drink water and nutrients will decrease, this will cause symptoms of nutrient deficiencies (mostly pale, slow, weak growth), and strangely they will start to wilt like they don't have enough water. It is easy to make a fatal mistake at this point and add more water.
In a Hydroponic system the cause is a more direct simple lack of oxygen in the solution, this may be from inadequate circulation and/or aeration. High reservoir temperatures also interfere with Oxygen's ability to dissolve in the water. Temperatures above 70F (20C) will eventually cause problems, 62F-65F (16C-18C) is recommended. The same symptoms will appear as with soil plants but you can also check the roots. Healthy roots should be mostly white with maybe a slight yellowish tan tinges. If they are a brownish colour with dead tips or they easily pull away there are at least the beginnings of a serious problem. Organic dirt like rotting smell means there is already a very good chance it is too late. As roots die and rot they eat Oxygen out of the water, as Oxygen levels are even further depleted more roots die, a viscous circle may be well under way. Reduced Oxygen levels and high temperatures both encourage anaerobic bacteria and fungi. The plants may still be saved but you will have to work fast.
3. How Hydrogen Peroxide prevents root rot/overwatering.
When plants are watered with H2O2 it will break down and release Oxygen into the area around the roots. This helps stop the Oxygen from being depleted in the water filled air spaces until air can get back into them. High Oxygen levels at the roots will encourage rapid healthy root growth. In a Hydroponic system H2O2 will disperse throughout the system and raise Oxygen levels as it breaks down. Strong white healthy roots with lots of fuzzy new growth will be visible. This fuzzy growth has massive surface area allowing for rapid absorption of the huge amounts of water and nutrients needed for rapid top growth. A healthy plant starts with a healthy root system.
4. How to use it.
H2O2 comes in several different strengths 3%, 5%, 8% and 35%, also sold as food grade Hydrogen Peroxide. The most economical is 35% which we recommend be diluted to three percent before using, as at this high concentration it can cause damage to skin and clothing. When working with food grade H2O2 it is very important that you clean up any spills or splashes immediately, it will damage almost anything very quickly. This is extra important with skin and clothing. Skin will be temporarily bleached pure white if not washed cleaned. Gloves are strongly recommended when working with any strong chemical.
Food grade H2O2 can be diluted to three percent by mixing it one part to eleven parts water (preferably distilled). The storage container should be opaque to prevent light from getting in and it must be able to hold some pressure. If three-liter pop bottles are available in your area they are ideal for mixing and storing H2O2. There are twelve quarter liters (250ml) in three liters, if you put in one quarter liter H2O2 and eleven quarter liters (250ml) water in the bottle it will full of three percent H2O2 and the bottle can hold the pressure that the H2O2 will generate. Three percent Hydrogen Peroxide may be added at up to three ml's per liter (2 1\2 tsp. Per gallon), but it is recommended that you start at a lower concentration and increase to full strength over a few weeks. Use every watering even on fresh cuttings. For hydroponics use every reservoir change and replace twenty-five percent (one quarter) every day. Example: In a 100L reservoir you would add three hundred ml's (3%) of H2O2 when changing the nutrient. You would then add seventy-five ml's more every day.
5. Where to get it.
35% food grade: called food grade because it has no toxic impurities
Of course your local hydroponics retailer, whom you can locate over the web at www.hydromall.com. Direct order off the web (there may be shipping restrictions on high strength peroxides). H2O2 is used to bleach hair so the local hairdresser may have a source. The local feed supplier may have it in small towns. Prices range from fifteen dollars per quarter liter to eighty dollars a gallon. One gallon will treat up to fifty thousand liters of water.
3%5%, 8%
Can be found at most drugstores or pharmacies, prices start at a less than a dollar for a one hundred-ml bottle that will treat one hundred liters.
6. What to do if you already have root rot.
In Dirt:
Use peroxided water with anti-fungicide (benomyl) and a high Phosphate fertilizer (9-45-15, 10-52-10, 0-60-0) for root growth. Root booster (5-15-5) or any other product with rooting hormone dissolved in it is helpful in re-growing roots and is strongly recommended. If a plant is witty adding Nutri-Boost may save it. Water heavily until liquid pours out the bottom of the pot. This sound like bad idea, but it flushes out stagnant dead water and replaces it with fresh highly oxygenated water. Don't let plants sit in trays full of water, the soil will absorb this water and stay too wet. Don't water again until the pot feels light and the top inch or two of the soil are dry.
In Hydro:
Change your nutrients. Add H2O2 to the system. This will add oxygen and chemically eat dead roots. If roots are badly rotted and can be pulled away by hand you should pull them off. They are already dead and will only rot, causing further problems. Add a fungicide to kill any fungus that is probably present in the rotted tissue to prevent it from spreading. Root booster will speed recovery. If plants are wilted Nutri-Boost may help save them. Increase aeration of the water; get an air pump and air stones, or more of them, for the reservoir. An air stone under every plant is usually very effective, but will require a larger air pump. Models that will do from forty to four hundred stones are available. Decrease the reservoir temperature, oxygen dissolves better in cold water and disease causing organisms reproduce slower as well. A good temperate range is 62F to 65F; anything above 70F will eventually cause a problem. It is also a good idea to remove any witty plants from the system and put them on a separate reservoir so they don't infect plants that are still healthy.
Summary
The key to big productive plants is a big healthy root system and Hydrogen Peroxide is a great way to keep your roots healthy. It is a must to ensure the biggest best crops possible and to increase the chances of your plants thriving to harvest. Peroxide users will rarely lose plants or crops to root disease and will harvest larger and more consistent crops.
 

maps84

Well-Known Member
You still need the hygrozyme to speed up the process and help the plant uptake nutes from the solution, it works as a catalyst. Trust me this thick is used by pros to save compromised crops.
 

PersonalJesus

Active Member
I can't get any Hygrozyme tonight or for a few days at least, have all my $ tied up in everything else right now. I do have H2O2, can I do this and the Aquashield at the same time? Or should I just do the H2O2 and wait?
 

PersonalJesus

Active Member
O.K... I added 4 tsp. of H2O2 into my 4 1/2 gallon res... A pretty weak mixture according to WOODSMANEH's formula post above.
My roots don't smell. Most of the roots are still pearly white, only some (mostly up towards the top of the roots by the bottom of the net pot) are beginning to go brown.
Assuming it is root rot (or brown algae)... did I just catch it early? Are my ladies gonna recover? Is that a good strength of mixture to start with? I'm planning on increasing it over the next 3 weeks until I get up to full strength (2 1/2 teaspoons per gallon).
I also have AquaShield... Should I be using that at the same time or wait and see?


Update... 12 hrs. later... I know its prolly too early to see any change from the H2O2 I added to my res earlier. But I had to take a net pot out so I could get my pH meter in my res and ( maybe its just wishful thinking ) I think there may be, just possibly, the very slightest improvement! It comes in the form of a little less brown-ness, at least on this one plants roots. I'm gonna cross my fingers, make a sacrifice to the ganja god, keep adding H2O2 according to the above formula, and hope this gets better.


Update... 6 hrs. after last post... Yeah, it was wishful thinking. I looked under a few different net pots and the rot is NOT doing better... HELP!
 
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