Root gel and some experiments

panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
Wow,i saw results in bud growth quickly,i only visit my garden every 2 days because of the long drive to get there so its usually pretty easy for me to notice change, this time i was dumbfounded as soon as i walked in,the new bud growth was allmost an explosive burst in new calyx's on the bud of one plant.

The pattern of growth on this plant has allways been even all around the bud & consistent from the top down to the bottom of the bud,now the bud is lumpy as hell with new growth.

Hmmmm...............this shits got me wondering big time,i saw some differences in my other girls that were not given root tone in their water but nowhere near as dramatic as this one,the seedlings i put root tone on have not shown anything dramatic yet but have shown faster leaf production than others.

This is the test plant with a dramatic growth spurt & the seedlings.

 
pinksensa

pinksensa

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
I know,that damm bud blew up in 2 days.
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what is the stuff you used again, and its it somethin i can get at the hydro store?? I got a branch living in water that is making roots and Id love to juice that water w/ what your using to see what happens..
 
thegigglepimp

thegigglepimp

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
Wow,i saw results in bud growth quickly,i only visit my garden every 2 days because of the long drive to get there so its usually pretty easy for me to notice change, this time i was dumbfounded as soon as i walked in,the new bud growth was allmost an explosive burst in new calyx's on the bud of one plant.

The pattern of growth on this plant has allways been even all around the bud & consistent from the top down to the bottom of the bud,now the bud is lumpy as hell with new growth.

Hmmmm...............this shits got me wondering big time,i saw some differences in my other girls that were not given root tone in their water but nowhere near as dramatic as this one,the seedlings i put root tone on have not shown anything dramatic yet but have shown faster leaf production than others.

This is the test plant with a dramatic growth spurt & the seedlings.
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Fair play mate, how did you apply it to affect the buds!?

I'm a bit taken back by this now, i mean it obviously works, but why is it people havent used it before?!
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
pinksensa said:
what is the stuff you used again, and its it somethin i can get at the hydro store?? I got a branch living in water that is making roots and Id love to juice that water w/ what your using to see what happens..
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I have 2 different brands,one is called Root Tone & the other is called Take Root,both can be found at any kmart,meijers,ace hardware,home depot ect,both products are cloning powder.
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
thegigglepimp said:
Fair play mate, how did you apply it to affect the buds!?

I'm a bit taken back by this now, i mean it obviously works, but why is it people havent used it before?!
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I mixed the cloning powder up with ph'ed water & fed it to them durring watering,it was a bitch to get it to mix up right,i had to make a paste then slowly add it to the water to get it to disolve,after it disolved the water looked like welfare milk,the powder shit.

Its way too early for me to say that it was the cloning powder or the growth hormone in it that made the growth burst happen,i think so but you neven know about how the placebo effect & my own personal bias comes into play.

Im gonna continue to monitor this plant,next time i visit the garden im going to take along a tailors tape measure to measure the circumference of the buds & keep track of their development,then compare against non treated plants.

There are all kinds of studies with this type shit on the internet,most of which are way over my head,ive been reading up on plant growth hormones the last few weeks & trying to understand it all so when fdd posted what he was trying i figured what the hell,looking at what happened with his experiment it was worth a shot.

So far no ill effects so it cant hurt i'd say.
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
Zekedogg said:
what is the make-up of it?
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I had to get a magnifying glass to even read the fine print but the active ingredient is Indole-3-Butyric Acid & the rest of the compound is supposedly inert ingredients.

This is the stuff.

Root tone

Edit,i did a quick google & looked up Indole-3-Butyric Acid, then took the name of the product that FDD is using in his pic,got the active ingredient from their website which they label as IBA Hormone then did a google on it,both hormones came up in the same links so something is going on.
 
Maccabee

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
panhead said:
I had to get a magnifying glass to even read the fine print but the active ingredient is Indole-3-Butyric Acid & the rest of the compound is supposedly inert ingredients...the product that FDD is using in his pic,got the active ingredient from their website which they label as IBA ...both hormones came up in the same links so something is going on.
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Yes, IBA is one of the forms of auxin (or possible a precursor of IAA, a known auxin.) What you're doing here is direct hormone supplementation. Think Barry Bonds.

Here's a good page on auxins from the links I posted yesterday:
Botany online: Plant hormones - Phytohormones - Auxins
 
We TaRdED

We TaRdED

Well-Known Member
i would love to see a b4 and after shot of a controlled plant and the one with the rooting hormone mixed in with the water :D

thanks for sharing PANHEAD and other!!! :D
 
LoudBlunts

LoudBlunts

Well-Known Member
i always wanted to try it....but my dumb ass thought roots would start growing wherever i rubbed the rooting solution
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
Maccabee said:
Yes, IBA is one of the forms of auxin. What you're doing here is direct hormone supplementation. Think Barry Bonds.

Here's a good page on auxins from the links I posted yesterday:
Botany online: Plant hormones - Phytohormones - Auxins
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Ok great,your here,i was just getting ready to pm you,from your links earlier in the thread you've obviously been researching this also,heve you read anything about using Gibberellic Acid or have you tried using it,this is becomming pretty interesting.

Btw,i have been trying to digest the info in your link all evening.
 
Maccabee

Maccabee

Well-Known Member
The two wouldn't be mutually exclusive. Vitamins and micronutes != hormones. That's like comparing Centrum and testosterone.

Anyway, it would seem that the relationship between IBA and IAA is a matter of active research. IAA is a known auxin, and IBA may be a related auxin or it may be a precursor of IAA. The latter might explain why it could be applied to plants later in life without ill effects--if the plant doesn't need more of whatever the IBA is used to make, it simply won't use it, whereas direct applications of the wrong hormone at the wrong time can have ill effects.

Here's an excerpt from the home page of a professor at the University of Missouri (St. Louis):
My research focuses on peroxisomal function and its role in auxin metabolism in the model plant Arabidopsis thaliana. I am studying the role of indole-butyric acid (IBA) in auxin response and its relationship to the principle auxin, indole-acetic acid (IAA). IBA is used widely in horticultural settings because of its efficacy at inducing secondary roots on cuttings, but the molecular mechanisms of IBA action are unknown. One hypothesis is that IBA functions as a “slow-release” form of IAA, providing free IAA for root intiation. Our results indicate this process may occur in a pathway similar to fatty acid ß-oxidation in peroxisomes. I have taken a genetic approach to elucidate the mechanisms of IBA function. My work has focused on two groups of IBA-response mutants:
1) Mutants defective in peroxisomal biogenesis or function. These mutants have defects in peroxins, which disrupt peroxisomal biogenesis or import, or in proteins acting within the peroxisome matrix, affecting specific pathways including fatty acid ß-oxidation and valine catabolism.
2) Mutants with IBA-response defects. These mutants do not have general peroxisome-defective phenotypes, indicating they may be defective in enzymes that act specifically on IBA.
Future work using genetics, cell biology, and biochemistry will reveal how IBA action is important for auxin responses in plants, the enzymes that convert IBA to IAA, and may eventually allow manipulation of species that do not effectively respond to IBA. In addition, this work provides an unbiased approach to explore the specifics of peroxisomal fatty acid metabolism in plants.
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From a Rice graduate lab study page:



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We are using molecular genetic approaches to elucidate functions of indole-3-butyric acid (IBA) in Arabidopsis. Although IBA is a naturally occurring form of the plant growth hormone auxin and is used commercially to promote rooting in many species, the molecular mechanisms by which it acts are only beginning to be understood.[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We have isolated IBA-response (ibr) mutants; some of these mutants have b-oxidation and peroxisome biogenesis defects. Our analysis suggests that IBA is converted into indole-3-acetic acid (IAA) using reactions analogous to those of fatty acid catabolism (b-oxidation), a largely peroxisomal process in plants. Thus these mutants are contributing to our understanding of plant peroxisomes and the genes necessary for their biogenesis. [/FONT][/FONT]​
​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]To understand auxin action, the functional significance of the endogenous auxins must be determined. Identifying genes involved in converting IBA to IAA is a prerequisite to understanding the regulation and importance of this conversion. This knowledge is essential to determine the contributions of IBA relative to other inputs to the active auxin pool, including de novo synthesis and conjugate hydrolysis. In addition, elucidating the molecular mechanisms of IBA action in a genetically tractable plant may provide insights for agricultural IBA uses. For example, identifying and characterizing the specific isozymes that convert IBA to IAA may facilitate their modification in difficult-to-root cultivars where IBA application is normally ineffective.
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This one is from an article in Plant Physiology on Jasmonic acid and mycorrhizae:

[/FONT] [SIZE=+1]Indole-3-Butyric Acid: The Other Natural Auxin[/SIZE]
Indole-3-butyric acid (IBA) is a naturally occurring auxin that has found wide commercial application in the induction root formation in cuttings. Beyond this one application, however, IBA has received scant attention compared to indole-3-acetic acid (IAA). In a number of plant species, however, concentrations of free IBA approach the levels of free IAA. Moreover, IBA and IAA can be interconverted, an observation that has led to the suggestion that IBA may act as a precursor to IAA. Arabidopsis mutants whose roots have reduced sensitivity to growth inhibition by IBA, but normal sensitivity to IAA, have been isolated and shown to have defects in
-oxidation, the pathway by which IBA is thought to be converted to IAA. These findings support a role for IBA as an IAA precursor. Other lines of evidence, however, suggest that IBA may act directly as an auxin, rather than simply as precursor of IAA. IBA, for example, is the preferred auxin for the induction of root formation, and several studies have demonstrated that internal IBA levels, not IAA levels, increase and stay elevated during IBA-induced root formation. The polar transport of IBA is also different than that of IAA; IBA transport is not sensitive to inhibition by IAA efflux inhibitors, and mutants that are defective in IAA transport have wild-type levels of IBA transport. These results suggest that IBA is transported by a pathway distinct from the IAA transport pathway and support the hypothesis that IBA has activities beyond simply being a precursor of IAA. Poupart et al. (pp. 1460–1471) have studied IAA and IBA transport in different tissues of the resistant to IBA (rib1) mutant of Arabidopsis. rib1 was originally isolated in a screen for mutants with defects in root gravitropism. The authors report that both hypocotyl and root IBA basipetal transport are decreased in rib1, whereas root acropetal IBA transport is increased. IAA transport levels are not different in rib1 compared to wild type, although root acropetal IAA transport is insensitive to the IAA efflux inhibitor naphthylphthalamic acid. rib1 is also less sensitive to IBA in stimulating lateral root formation and hypocotyl elongation under most, but not all, light and sucrose conditions studied. With one exception (low light and 1.5% sucrose), rib1 demonstrated wild-type responses to IAA under all conditions studied.
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One more, from Annual Review of Plant Physiology and Plant Molecular Biology, in an article by the director of the project at Rice :
Indole-3-acetic acid (IAA) is the most abundant naturally occurring auxin. Plants produce active IAA both by de novo synthesis and by releasing IAA from conjugates. This review emphasizes recent genetic experiments and complementary biochemical analyses that are beginning to unravel the complexities of IAA biosynthesis in plants. Multiple pathways exist for de novo IAA synthesis in plants, and a number of plant enzymes can liberate IAA from conjugates. This multiplicity has contributed to the current situation in which no pathway of IAA biosynthesis in plants has been unequivocally established. Genetic and biochemical experiments have demonstrated both tryptophan-dependent and tryptophan-independent routes of IAA biosynthesis. The recent application of precise and sensitive methods for quantitation of IAA and its metabolites to plant mutants disrupted in various aspects of IAA regulation is beginning to elucidate the multiple pathways that control IAA levels in the plant.
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So apparently this really is an unsettled are under active investigation.
 
thegigglepimp

thegigglepimp

Well-Known Member
I'm thinking of an experiment, althugh it may kill my plant. I currntly have two seedlings no bigger than an inch, if I were to ad a very very small amount in the water for one of them I could see if it over takes the other? Or would it just kill the thing?
 
panhead

panhead

Well-Known Member
Maccabee said:
So apparently this really is an unsettled are under active investigation.
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Ok more questions if you dont mind.

Taken directly from the 2nd to last quote in your post.

RIB1 is also less sensitive to IBA in stimulating lateral root formation & hypocotyl elongation under most,but not all light & surcose conditions studied.With one exception,(low light & 1.5% sucrose).RIB1 demonstrated wild type responses to IAA under all conditions studied.

Ok now,if i have this right then sucrose is a natural sugar ? and if this is correct & once again presuming that im half way understanding any of this these sugars can or will react with the Indole-3 & create abnormal growth ?

The reason i ask this is once i read that link,when i got to the part about the interaction with sucrose it struck me that maybe my use of molasses durring watering has created this abnormal growth rate im experiencing.
 
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