Roger Waters victim of Cancel culture???

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I’m not sure if this will do, and I don’t agree with all of it, but I found the article informative and interesting.

www.vox.com

Why we can’t stop fighting about cancel culture

Is cancel culture a mob mentality, or a long overdue way of speaking truth to power?
www.vox.com www.vox.com
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Switching away from offensive, socially tone deaf celebs? Is that what it's about? Isn't that everybody's right? Damn right Cosby and Weinstein's careers ended when their depraved behaviors were made public. What happened to Kevin Spacey seems unfair, because he was found innocent. But even that is not new or a peculiar attribute of the left. Witness the rights actions against any company accused of being woke.

The following says what I see happening when the right complains about cancel culture:

"Very few canceled celebs suffer lasting career setbacks. But witnessing cancel culture backlash seems to send some people into panic mode."

The authoritarian radical right (MAGA) are complaining about otherwise powerless people collectively using the power of the pocketbook to enforce changes in social norms. As in telling movie producers that it's not OK to rape powerless women. These boycotts don't happen very often. They rarely has a lasting effect. It's no different from wealthy Republican women boycotting an upscale fashion store for taking a stance against the fur trade. But that phrase. cancel culture, has a powerful affect on authoritarian followers who associate it with the majority who oppose them. I think that's what's behind the backlash against "cancel culture". It's more about people in power suppressing the will of the majority. And perhaps a reactionary attempt to turn the clock back on society.
 
HGCC

HGCC

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I think Roger has a point when he says it’s a rebranding of boycotts.

The articles I’ve referenced say that it usually brings temporary and mild consequences to an affected celebrity.
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Do you think that's a correct interpretation though (the vox article)?

I think I am agreeing with Roger....just a slightly different tact/approach. It is boycotts, and those are fine, it would be a loser in public discourse to argue against boycotts. Cancel culture is a pretend term that gets used and not a real thing. It is why it can also be twisted to mean different things depending on the context of a conversation.
 
CANON_Grow

CANON_Grow

Well-Known Member
It depends on how narrow of a definition one uses to define cancel culture, and it is not a new phenomenon. A few examples that show it is an issue:
-Al Franken with the picture
-Billy Bush for laughing at Trump's grab'em comment way back in 2005
-Aziz Ansari for being a bad date

There are other cases that are not so well known, like the former Apple executive fired for trying to use a joke from a movie.
www.businessinsider.com

The Apple exec who was filmed joking about fondling women's breasts said he was quoting a movie — but etiquette and HR experts say that's still no excuse

"We all know the old adage 'loose lips sink ships.' Even if it's a riff off a movie, it's still not appropriate," etiquette expert Diane Gottsman said.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com

One could even argue that Colin Kaepernick and Janet Jackson had to deal with cancel culture, but can't say they were victims of the 'Left' mob. It is a real thing and it is an issue.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
HGCC said:
Do you think that's a correct interpretation though (the vox article)?

I think I am agreeing with Roger....just a slightly different tact/approach. It is boycotts, and those are fine, it would be a loser in public discourse to argue against boycotts. Cancel culture is a pretend term that gets used and not a real thing. It is why it can also be twisted to mean different things depending on the context of a conversation.
Click to expand...
My take is a little different. Initially, cancellation was little different from a boycott, not so much of a corporation as of a celebrity.

The right has changed what it meant into a less-defined term under which I find their bottomless supply of grievance politics. Cancellation used to be a way to empower people with a small voice. Now it’s used to steamroll them.
 
efi2

efi2

Well-Known Member
wow could not read all the single minded statements. especially the same old individuals go straight to their very narrow( f__k ,nano thin ) political views. cancel culture been around longer than anyone in this forum. IT WAS WHAT STARTED WILL RELIGION. HOW ABOUT REFEER MADNESS https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness, william randolph hearst .Most do not remember free tv. threes company, married with children. all thousands of other. it was the self appointed monitor religious nuts used as a weapon , you so call call progressive stolen and call yours . NOTHING NEW JUST YOUR PROSPECTIVE. As for Palestine/isreal compare ukraine/russia that I believe Roger Waters is being attacked about.
 

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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
efi2 said:
wow could not read all the single minded statements. especially the same old individuals go straight to their very narrow( f__k ,nano thin ) political views. cancel culture been around longer than anyone in this forum. IT WAS WHAT STARTED WILL RELIGION. HOW ABOUT REFEER MADNESS https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness, william randolph hearst .Most do not remember free tv. threes company, married with children. all thousands of other. it was the self appointed monitor religious nuts used as a weapon , you so call call progressive stolen and call yours . NOTHING NEW JUST YOUR PROSPECTIVE. As for Palestine/isreal compare ukraine/russia that I believe Roger Waters is being attacked about.
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Roger Waters has not been cancelled except maybe in Germany so let's just move on from that false claim. Waters is doing just fine and I'm pretty sure that attendance to his concerts has gone up, given the free publicity his antics caused.

Agree with you that people collectively disassociating themselves from a person, business or other group for some action or statement that offends them is probably as old as mankind. For thousands of years, churches have used shunning to punish people who violate their canon and it's a very effective tool to control its congregation. Its most often used to maintain the status quo. But is that really what Trump meant when he decried Cancel Culture in a speech before the heads of old dead men at Mt Rushmore?


He speaks in general terms so it's hard to say for sure what in hell he's talking about. I heard reference to liberal fascism "if you do not speak its language, perform it's rituals you will be censored". I think he's talking about how our social norms are changing and Trump is complaining that "grab them by the pussy" is actually not OK even if you are a star, or not any more it isn't. So in that sense, cancel culture is, as you point out, a very old tool that is used within a society to maintain social norms, except when Trump spoke out against cancel culture, he's speaking out against our society's enforcement of new norms. That is what Trump (I think) says he's going to put to an end.

Also he vowed protect from cancel culture the symbols and statutes of heroes representing a mythical time when righteous southern states fought against the union in order to preserve the institution of slavery(?). The crowd loved it when he promised to arrest people and put them away for 10 years for conducting a peaceful protest. That offense being defacing a statue of a slaver or one who led armed insurrection against the Union in order to protect a way of life that was founded on generational race based chattel slavery. So how about facing the reality of what he was doing. He was championing the white nationalist movement.

So, I think you are not wrong but miss the point. MAGA and their leaders "cancel" others as often if not more often than socially progressive people do. The difference is MAGA is socially conservative and opposes change. The very term evokes a mythical past when America was Great (for cis WASP men) What Trump and his MAGA minions are trying to do with their campaign against cancel culture is prevent socially progressive people from anchoring society in a mode that treats others who aren't cis WASP men more equally and civilly.
 
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cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Fogdog said:
Roger Waters has not been cancelled except maybe in Germany so let's just move on from that false claim. Waters is doing just fine and I'm pretty sure that attendance to his concerts has gone up, given the free publicity his antics caused.

Agree with you that people collectively disassociating themselves from a person, business or other group for some action or statement that offends them is probably as old as mankind. For thousands of years, churches have used shunning to punish people who violate their canon and it's a very effective tool to control its congregation. Its most often used to maintain the status quo. But is that really what Trump meant when he decried Cancel Culture in a speech before the heads of old dead men at Mt Rushmore?


He speaks in general terms so it's hard to say for sure what in hell he's talking about. I heard reference to liberal fascism "if you do not speak its language, perform it's rituals you will be censored". I think he's talking about how our social norms are changing and Trump is complaining that "grab them by the pussy" is actually not OK even if you are a star, or not any more it isn't. So in that sense, cancel culture is, as you point out, a very old tool that is used within a society to maintain social norms, except when Trump spoke out against cancel culture, he's speaking out against our society's enforcement of new norms. That is what Trump (I think) says he's going to put to an end.

Also he vowed protect from cancel culture the symbols and statutes of heroes representing a mythical time when righteous southern states fought against the union in order to preserve the institution of slavery(?). The crowd loved it when he promised to arrest people and put them away for 10 years for conducting a peaceful protest. That offense being defacing a statue of a slaver or one who led armed insurrection against the Union in order to protect a way of life that was founded on generational race based chattel slavery. So how about facing the reality of what he was doing. He was championing the white nationalist movement.

So, I think you are not wrong but miss the point. MAGA and their leaders "cancel" others as often if not more often than socially progressive people do. The difference is MAGA is socially conservative and opposes change. The very term evokes a mythical past when America was Great (for cis WASP men) What Trump and his minions are trying to do with their campaign against cancel culture is prevent socially progressive people from anchoring society in a mode that treats others who aren't cis WASP men more equally and civilly.
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well said.
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
"The artist shared the interview online alongside a heading that read: “the truth will set us free.”
In a comment, Waters condemned the “outrageous and despicable smear campaign to denounce me as an antisemite, which I am not, never have been and never will be”.

The 79-year-old said the criticism came “because I lend my voice to the 75-year-old fight for equal human rights for all my brothers and sisters in Palestine/Israel”. He also affirmed that he stood by his past comparison of the Israeli state to Nazi Germany because “the Israelis are committing genocide

www.independent.co.uk

Jewish groups call for cancellation of Roger Waters shows over antisemitism claims

Pink Floyd artist previously compared the Israeli state to Nazi Germany over its ‘oppression’ of Palestinian people
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
Yeah I love them so much i bought a Prius. lol Musk turned out to be a sh*tbag worth cancelling, he will get none of my money..
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I watched a show about Musk the other night. He just outright lies to investors and the public. His following sees him as some super hero of the earth.
 
HGCC

HGCC

Well-Known Member
CANON_Grow said:
It depends on how narrow of a definition one uses to define cancel culture, and it is not a new phenomenon. A few examples that show it is an issue:
-Al Franken with the picture
-Billy Bush for laughing at Trump's grab'em comment way back in 2005
-Aziz Ansari for being a bad date

There are other cases that are not so well known, like the former Apple executive fired for trying to use a joke from a movie.
www.businessinsider.com

The Apple exec who was filmed joking about fondling women's breasts said he was quoting a movie — but etiquette and HR experts say that's still no excuse

"We all know the old adage 'loose lips sink ships.' Even if it's a riff off a movie, it's still not appropriate," etiquette expert Diane Gottsman said.
www.businessinsider.com www.businessinsider.com



One could even argue that Colin Kaepernick and Janet Jackson had to deal with cancel culture, but can't say they were victims of the 'Left' mob. It is a real thing and it is an issue.
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Franken did come to mind, I use him as my example quite a bit for stuff. I want to call that something other than cancel culture (as i think of it in the current context of shooting coolers and such), but can't really. He did get railroaded by people virtue signaling to each other.

Kaepernick got boycotted, the conservatives tried to kick him off and get him fired. I do consider those boycotts, but they fit with what's getting called cancel culture and how places go about it. I don't like it and think it's silly, but the republicans are certainly within their rights to do it and I don't think the act of boycotting something you don't like is wrong.
 
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