Reverse Engineering everyone's nutrients

Alienwidow

Alienwidow

Well-Known Member
MisterBlah said:
You need 1 gallon of distilled water. You can find it at your grocery store for $1. You will need to empty out some if it to make room for the the fertilizers.

Then add the following:
650g of Calcium Nitrate
450g of Magnesium Nitrate

When it comes to adding the iron, you need to know the % of the chelate.
If you add a 13% EDTA chelate, add 25g
If you add a 11% DTPA chelate, add 30g

If buying in small quantities, that will probably cost you $20-25 when shipping is included. Buying in larger quantities, it will cost $3-6 maybe.
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Thank you mr. Blah. Ill start shoppin around for good prices. You are awesome sauce. :):):)
 
Redoctober

Redoctober

Well-Known Member
What are people's opinions on the ammoniacal nitrogen to nitrate nitrogen ratio? I've read that too much ammonium can antagonize Calcium because they are both positively charged ions and the roots can only handle so much at once. But I've also read that most hydroponic fertilizers don't contain enough ammoniacal nitrogen. Since I've been mixing my own salts I've been shooting for a 1:3 ratio ammonium:nitrate. Every brand i.e. GH, Advanced, Dyna etc. seems to have a different ratio. What do you think?
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Redoctober said:
What are people's opinions on the ammoniacal nitrogen to nitrate nitrogen ratio? I've read that too much ammonium can antagonize Calcium because they are both positively charged ions and the roots can only handle so much at once. But I've also read that most hydroponic fertilizers don't contain enough ammoniacal nitrogen. Since I've been mixing my own salts I've been shooting for a 1:3 ratio ammonium:nitrate. Every brand i.e. GH, Advanced, Dyna etc. seems to have a different ratio. What do you think?
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The guy who made hydrobuddy has a blog post about types of N in particular.

http://scienceinhydroponics.com/2009/02/nitrogen-fertilization-in-hydroponics.html

In short, he concludes that:

"So next time you are searching for a nitrogen nutrient for your hydroponic plants, remember to search for nitrate salts as more than 90% of your total nitrogen source. The most important salts for providing nitrogen as nitrate in hydroponic gardening are potassium nitrate and calcium nitrate. This is important to remember, as using ammonium salts to provide your plant’s nitrogen will ultimately kill them in hydroponic media !"
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
The only ammonium salt I use is included in yara calcium nitrate, which is 5 Calcium nitrate to 1 Ammonium Nitrate. (by mole, not mass)

Most greenhouse grade calcium nitrate is this double salt.
 
MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
The only ammonium salt I use is included in yara calcium nitrate, which is 5 Calcium nitrate to 1 Ammonium Nitrate. (by mole, not mass)

Most greenhouse grade calcium nitrate is this double salt.
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You may also find CAN-27 which is a much greater percentage of ammonium nitrate.
 
Redoctober

Redoctober

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
The guy who made hydrobuddy has a blog post about types of N in particular.

http://scienceinhydroponics.com/2009/02/nitrogen-fertilization-in-hydroponics.html

In short, he concludes that:

"So next time you are searching for a nitrogen nutrient for your hydroponic plants, remember to search for nitrate salts as more than 90% of your total nitrogen source. The most important salts for providing nitrogen as nitrate in hydroponic gardening are potassium nitrate and calcium nitrate. This is important to remember, as using ammonium salts to provide your plant’s nitrogen will ultimately kill them in hydroponic media !"
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Wow, shit! I think I've been supplying too much ammonium, which would also account for my constant and precipitous daily pH drops.
Very interesting article, thanks church!
I thought I'd read of the Hydrobuddy articles but I missed that one. There's a lot of great information in there.
So he says never go over 30ppm ammonium in hydro.
It's funny because after watching the Harley Smith lectures on YouTube, I got the impression that ammonium was like a secret weapon or something,
but he may have been referring to soil growing where the ammonium gets converted by microbes before being uptaken by the plant.
 
Redoctober

Redoctober

Well-Known Member
I guess I should also mention that there is a third source of nitrogen which is amino acids
Maybe church or MisterBlah could shed some light on this

Ferti-Nitro is one such example, or OmniA from NPK RAW which is the same thing but more expensive.
Here is the description:
"Ferti-Nitro is a water soluble powder produced enzymatically without the use of chemicals or animal by-products. Derived from non-GMO soy protein with a guaranteed minimum of 13.62% plant available nitrogen ideal for nitrogen deficient crops and with a high amino acid content of 80%
Highly and quickly absorbed in plants
Supplies organic plant nitrogen, peptides and amino acids"

So they term it "organic nitrogen" which I suppose means that it comes from the organic (carbon containing) functional groups of amino acids, many of which contain Nitrogen.
In these cases where the nitrogen is coming from amino acids, what form does it take?
I assume it is neither ammoniacal nor nitrate? Maybe just a nitrogen ion?
Or does nitrogen immediately bind 4 hydrogens, or 3 oxygens the instant it is released in solution?
 
mike4c4

mike4c4

Well-Known Member
MisterBlah said:
You may also find CAN-27 which is a much greater percentage of ammonium nitrate.
Click to expand...
if ammonium nitrate has the clay coating on it does it have to bee cleaned? And if so after filtering can the water be slowly steamed off or is a higher temp needed.
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Redoctober said:
I guess I should also mention that there is a third source of nitrogen which is amino acids
Maybe church or MisterBlah could shed some light on this

Ferti-Nitro is one such example, or OmniA from NPK RAW which is the same thing but more expensive.
Here is the description:
"Ferti-Nitro is a water soluble powder produced enzymatically without the use of chemicals or animal by-products. Derived from non-GMO soy protein with a guaranteed minimum of 13.62% plant available nitrogen ideal for nitrogen deficient crops and with a high amino acid content of 80%
Highly and quickly absorbed in plants
Supplies organic plant nitrogen, peptides and amino acids"

So they term it "organic nitrogen" which I suppose means that it comes from the organic (carbon containing) functional groups of amino acids, many of which contain Nitrogen.
In these cases where the nitrogen is coming from amino acids, what form does it take?
I assume it is neither ammoniacal nor nitrate? Maybe just a nitrogen ion?
Or does nitrogen immediately bind 4 hydrogens, or 3 oxygens the instant it is released in solution?
Click to expand...

http://biology-pages.info/U/UreaCycle.html

"Deamination of amino acids results in the production of ammonia (NH3)."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_process_of_decomposition

Nitrogen release
Nitrogen is a component of amino acids and is released upon deamination. It is typically released in the form of ammonia, which may be used by plants or microbes in the surrounding environment, converted to nitrate, or can accumulate in soil (if the body is located on top of or within soil).[4] It has been suggested that the presence of nitrogen in soil may enhance nearby plant growth.[6]

In acidic soil conditions, ammonia will be converted to ammonium ions, which can be used by plants or microbes. Under alkaline conditions, some of the ammonium ions entering soil may be converted back to ammonia. Any remaining ammonium in the environment can undergo nitrification and denitrification to yield nitrate and nitrite. In the absence of nitrifying bacteria, or organisms capable of oxidizing ammonia, ammonia will accumulate in the soil.[4]
 
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C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
Redoctober said:
Wow, shit! I think I've been supplying too much ammonium, which would also account for my constant and precipitous daily pH drops.
Very interesting article, thanks church!
I thought I'd read of the Hydrobuddy articles but I missed that one. There's a lot of great information in there.
So he says never go over 30ppm ammonium in hydro.
It's funny because after watching the Harley Smith lectures on YouTube, I got the impression that ammonium was like a secret weapon or something,
but he may have been referring to soil growing where the ammonium gets converted by microbes before being uptaken by the plant.
Click to expand...
Ammonium based N tends to cause glossy dark emerald green leaves while nitrate based N tends to cause a mat light green leaves. I think that when people are thinking of N toxicity, they're usually thinking of ammonium toxicity. This is because NH4+ antagonizes K+, Ca++, Mg++, Fe++, etc, while NO3- antagonizes H2PO4-.
 
MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
Redoctober said:
So they term it "organic nitrogen" which I suppose means that it comes from the organic (carbon containing) functional groups of amino acids, many of which contain Nitrogen.
In these cases where the nitrogen is coming from amino acids, what form does it take?
I assume it is neither ammoniacal nor nitrate? Maybe just a nitrogen ion?
Or does nitrogen immediately bind 4 hydrogens, or 3 oxygens the instant it is released in solution?
Click to expand...
Based on the percentage of amino acids and total N, it's an ammoniacal nitrogen form.
 
MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
mike4c4 said:
if ammonium nitrate has the clay coating on it does it have to bee cleaned? And if so after filtering can the water be slowly steamed off or is a higher temp needed.
Click to expand...
It's likely a delayed release fertilizer and is not meant to be used in fertigation. Just put it a little bit on top of the dirt in each pot.
 
mike4c4

mike4c4

Well-Known Member
composition of the coating is clay, CaO, MgO
just not sure if i need to boil it. I let 5grams air dry and it was fine i just want to speed up the processes without changing the mix
 
MisterBlah

MisterBlah

Well-Known Member
So, the coatings should be mostly water soluble, so I would recommend creating a stock solution like you normally would, just heat it, agitate it, and mash it. That should do to break it up well enough and dissolve everything.
 
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