Report claims with 99% certainty that ACC is real.

Aaaaaaaand finally, the elephant in the room that but for its painted toenails, no one ever sees it;

You see, for every barrel that comes out of the ground and ultimately gets converted into gasoline, or home heating fuel, or jet fuel or diesel fuel OR FERTILISER FOR FARMING- the ultimate source of many nutrient salts are petrochemical byproducts- at least eight and often up to TWENTY barrels of oil were burned in the process, to power it and provide for distribution.

What you actually pump into your tank really is just skim off the top of the vast amount required to get it to the gas station and ready for use.

As oil gets harder to find and more difficult to extract, that ratio only gets higher... and if course they don't have emissions controls at the production end anywhere near what the end consumer has to tolerate!

UncleBuck said:

is it only 7,000? seems low.

Click to expand...

I guessed ten k, but then looked it up;

Google sent me to the 'clean coal association' website, which sez roughly 2300 plants operate a total of 7000 units. Fun fact.

Hate on fracking all you want, but especially by comparison to other fossil fuels, natural gas is clean and cheap; a drastically higher percentage of what's extracted is sent to the consumer, and next to hydrogen itself, natural gas is the cleanest of the hydrocarbons.

Combine those advantages with those of home based fuel cell cogeneration, and you can see why I think this combination is the wave of the future.

I aim to bring it to this industry, where I believe both the money and the will exist to try new approaches to bring the costs associated with indoor cultivation down.

ttystikk said:

Aaaaaaaand finally, the elephant in the room that but for its painted toenails, no one ever sees it;

You see, for every barrel that comes out of the ground and ultimately gets converted into gasoline, or home heating fuel, or jet fuel or diesel fuel OR FERTILISER FOR FARMING- the ultimate source of many nutrient salts are petrochemical byproducts- at least eight and often up to TWENTY barrels of oil were burned in the process, to power it and provide for distribution.

What you actually pump into your tank really is just skim off the top of the vast amount required to get it to the gas station and ready for use.

As oil gets harder to find and more difficult to extract, that ratio only gets higher... and if course they don't have emissions controls at the production end anywhere near what the end consumer has to tolerate!

Click to expand...

oil is not extracted to make kerosene, gasoline, diesel or fertilizers.
oil is also not extracted for clinker, asphalt, tar or pitch

oil is extracted for plastics, industrial feedstocks, and all the other middle weight hydrocarbons.

all that other shit is byproducts which would be waste if there was no secondary market for it.
your car is a mobile waste disposal plant for the petrochemical industry, rolling on roads made from MORE OF THEIR WASTE.
most of the shit you see everyday which you can identify as a petrochemical is in fact a byproduct of the processes used to make the base materials for medicine, dyes and other shit which is where the real money from a barrel of oil lives.

if everybody switched their cars to natural gas, oil companies would be burning gasoline in open pits again.

fuel cell technology is UNSUITED to home use, for all the myriad reasons discussed in half a dozen other fuel cell threads, and most recently the liquid hydrogen clusterfuck which you can find in science/technology.

if you want to propose home fuel cell use, then why not go full retard and demand THEY stop concealing the super awesome home fusion power tech that THEY have been sitting on since 1948, or even the Zero Point Energy Troof that THEY dont want us to know about.

Dr Kynes said:

oil is not extracted to make kerosene, gasoline, diesel or fertilizers.
oil is also not extracted for clinker, asphalt, tar or pitch

oil is extracted for plastics, industrial feedstocks, and all the other middle weight hydrocarbons.

all that other shit is byproducts which would be waste if there was no secondary market for it.
your car is a mobile waste disposal plant for the petrochemical industry, rolling on roads made from MORE OF THEIR WASTE.
most of the shit you see everyday which you can identify as a petrochemical is in fact a byproduct of the processes used to make the base materials for medicine, dyes and other shit which is where the real money from a barrel of oil lives.

if everybody switched their cars to natural gas, oil companies would be burning gasoline in open pits again.

fuel cell technology is UNSUITED to home use, for all the myriad reasons discussed in half a dozen other fuel cell threads, and most recently the liquid hydrogen clusterfuck which you can find in science/technology.

if you want to propose home fuel cell use, then why not go full retard and demand THEY stop concealing the super awesome home fusion power tech that THEY have been sitting on since 1948, or even the Zero Point Energy Troof that THEY dont want us to know about.

Click to expand...

There are many glaring errors in your missive, but I don't care to continue a debate you clearly have more invested in 'winning' no matter the cost, than I.

I'll see your can't do fuel cells at home and raise you; I'll install one here and see for myself.

Don't let me interrupt your rant, though.

ttystikk said:

There are many glaring errors in your missive, but I don't care to continue a debate you clearly have more invested in 'winning' no matter the cost, than I.

I'll see your can't do fuel cells at home and raise you; I'll install one here and see for myself.

Don't let me interrupt your rant, though.

Click to expand...

yeah, you go ahead and install a "fuel cell" in your house.

how youll get the liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen to feed it is a mystery, and how you will deal with the safety issues surrounding it's operation is an enigma.

how youll get the permits for all this shit is simply inexplicable.

where youll get a "fuel cell" to begin with is beyond reason, since you can just order them from Hammecker Schlemmer

but yeah, you rock on with your bad self.

and i'm sure youll "prove" that they are totally suitable for operation by even the dumbest dipshit in a public housing low-rent high-rise, or the most retarded redneck in the trailer park.

thats a certainty

Dr Kynes said:

yeah, you go ahead and install a "fuel cell" in your house.

how youll get the liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen to feed it is a mystery, and how you will deal with the safety issues surrounding it's operation is an enigma.

how youll get the permits for all this shit is simply inexplicable.

where youll get a "fuel cell" to begin with is beyond reason, since you can just order them from Hammecker Schlemmer

but yeah, you rock on with your bad self.

and i'm sure youll "prove" that they are totally suitable for operation by even the dumbest dipshit in a public housing low-rent high-rise, or the most retarded redneck in the trailer park.

thats a certainty

Click to expand...

Well, your local welding supply shop has the oxygen. http://www.praxair.com/gases/buy-liquid-oxygen-or-compressed-oxygen-gas

Looks like they carry the hydrogen as well.

http://www.praxair.com/gases/buy-compressed-hydrogen-gas-or-liquid-hydrogen

sheskunk said:

Looks like they carry the hydrogen as well.

http://www.praxair.com/gases/buy-compressed-hydrogen-gas-or-liquid-hydrogen

Click to expand...

tutt tutt tutt.

i know where I would get the compressed O2 and H2, and how to handle it, the key is, every jackass on the planet is not qualified to keep a 20 liter cylinder of each in his hooch, nor are they qualified to operate a fuel cell in their sheds.

fuck, i wouldnt feel confident with one of those operating at my place, and if i thought some of my dipshit neighbors were using fuel cells i would fucking move quicker than shit.

hell most apartments and condos dont even have a gas stove or water heater any more, cuz dumbasses are always out looking for new ways to dumbass, and even the lowly gas pipe is too much responsibility for the lowest common denominator to handle.

giving them a jug of liquid O2 and H2 then expecting them not to fuck up is just retarded.

goddamned bomb making equipment in every shack, shanty, hooch, mc mansion, crackhouse, heroin flop, and crackerboard tract home in america? fuck no!

but thats eco-loons for you.

a thousand grand schemes, zero common sense or logic.

that technology is fine on the international space station/money pit, where everyone aboard is a qualified expert and theres not a Johhny Knoxville fan in sight, but it's nowhere near ready for home use.

They sell gasoline at every street corner. World gone mad.

sheskunk said:

They sell gasoline at every street corner. World gone mad.

Click to expand...

In my world, one needs a license to own a paper spork.
Oh look, here comes the local constabulary!

Dr Kynes said:

if i thought some of my dipshit neighbors were using fuel cells i would fucking move quicker than shit.

Click to expand...

the only question is whether your brother, your other brother, your mom, your two cousins, and three nephews would move as well.

sheskunk said:

They sell gasoline at every street corner. World gone mad.

Click to expand...

gasoline isnt an explosive gas compressed at 142 psi, with shiny brass fittings just waitng for some idiot kid to try and huff it, or for some dipshit to back his suv over the valve.

20 liters of gasoline in the hands of a fool is a housefire, 20 liters of liquid hydrogen in the hands of a fool is half a city block in ruins, and if theres a few more cylinders of O2 and H2 in that radius you get a daisy chain of delight and a sweet new area open for the construction of wal-marts and sports/entertainment venues

If people are so stupid why do we need them in the first place?

sheskunk said:

If people are so stupid why do we need them in the first place?

Click to expand...

somebody has to buy Uncle Buck's weed...

Kynes,
Are you familiar with the way Acetylene is stored in bottles? It's quite explosive at low pressures (relatively speaking).
A similar trick can be (and probably is) used to store "consumer" hydrogen in M-class bottles, etc.

heckler73 said:

Kynes,
Are you familiar with the way Acetylene is stored in bottles? It's quite explosive at low pressures (relatively speaking).
A similar trick can be (and probably is) used to store "consumer" hydrogen in M-class bottles, etc.

Click to expand...

acetylene is stored at low pressure in a stabilizing honeycomb within the tank, but that wont work with hydrogen or O2.

if it worked, it would already be in use in hospitals and welding shops where the O2 is a most dangerous issue.

theoretical solutions only work for theoretical problems.

Dr Kynes said:

acetylene is stored at low pressure in a stabilizing honeycomb within the tank, but that wont work with hydrogen or O2.

if it worked, it would already be in use in hospitals and welding shops where the O2 is a most dangerous issue.

theoretical solutions only work for theoretical problems.

Click to expand...

Actually, I was just coming back to add an edit. I read a 2007 report on the type 3 and 4 tanks used for hydrogen storage, and their explosion profiles in the event of PRD (Pressure Relief Device) failure in a fire. They do go boom (you should see the vehicle in the aftermath )
www.see.ed.ac.uk/feh5/pdfs/FEH_pdf_pp149.pdf‎

The Metal Hydride system is not practical since heat needs to be added (I think) to properly release the hydrogen. Nevertheless, Air Liquide sells Hydrogen in "Type 1" bottles (they look like M-Class, to me), so I'm somewhat leery towards your fear of chain-reaction explosions going across a block.

Dr Kynes said:

oil is not extracted to make kerosene, gasoline, diesel or fertilizers.
oil is also not extracted for clinker, asphalt, tar or pitch

oil is extracted for plastics, industrial feedstocks, and all the other middle weight hydrocarbons.

all that other shit is byproducts which would be waste if there was no secondary market for it.
your car is a mobile waste disposal plant for the petrochemical industry, rolling on roads made from MORE OF THEIR WASTE.
most of the shit you see everyday which you can identify as a petrochemical is in fact a byproduct of the processes used to make the base materials for medicine, dyes and other shit which is where the real money from a barrel of oil lives.

if everybody switched their cars to natural gas, oil companies would be burning gasoline in open pits again.

fuel cell technology is UNSUITED to home use, for all the myriad reasons discussed in half a dozen other fuel cell threads, and most recently the liquid hydrogen clusterfuck which you can find in science/technology.

if you want to propose home fuel cell use, then why not go full retard and demand THEY stop concealing the super awesome home fusion power tech that THEY have been sitting on since 1948, or even the Zero Point Energy Troof that THEY dont want us to know about.

Click to expand...

Yeah, they don't drill for and refine crude oil into motor gasoline because we don't use that stuff at all. If you count gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, it's barely 1/2 the barrel. Who pays for that garbage?

Fuel cells use reformers, which convert very same natural gas that's already flowing into your home into hydrogen for the fuel cells, water vapor as a byproduct, and carbon dioxide.

The fuel cell takes the hydrogen and in the presence of atmospheric oxygen creates electricity and heat, WITHOUT combustion. Since there is no flame, there are no incomplete products of combustion such as carbon monoxide- this makes fuel cells about as dangerous as a new refrigerator.

But please, do continue with your rant, it's most entertaining.