Recommend $300 budget light..... For a friend

TurboTokes

TurboTokes

Well-Known Member
How do you fellas tell the lumens of these led setups. It sure would be nice to know such and such boards run with this driver will produce this many lumens, or atpeast ballpark figures

Still open to suggestions
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Two hard facts you miss and are undisputable -

1- leds trolled 95% of this site, they aint plesant and their science is poor.

2- Greater minds than you and i asked if wind was needed or not, they used the term natural when they wrote the paper. The found the plant neither needs or wants it but i dont expect you lesser growers to be anywhere near my level or understand stuff like leaf thermals and free cooling vs forced as most are mere weed growers not biologists. This rings true with your led info you copy and paste, its very low ppfd science and not accurate to what real growers are doing.

Fuck most recently you all struggled to read air temps let alonre know where to place q thermometer.... and im the wrong one here....

Fucking new to science growers are such dicks, give it a few tears to learn the correct sciene then get back to me in this forum :-)
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1 - I don't see a lot of trolling or miss information surrounding leds any more. Go back a year or more and you were right. The same existed with cmh, ridicules claims.. in-fact it was only a few weeks ago a seller on here was claiming one 315 could replace a 600 (hoods aside). So is cmh shit?.. 95% of it's claims were bs too.

2 - Don't project, I have a great mind and very thankful for it. Those ''great minds'' you speak of either left out (or you did) key things that shuts that argument down. Wind helps with pollination and the spread of seeds. Wind helps plants and trees to grow more sturdy giving benefits against animal damage (elephants/bears/grazers/insects) or more extreme weather and I could go on and on. Do indoor plants need wind for the above? no but it would help for certain things (like rh pocket spot rot potential). Your comment or how you apply ''wind isn't natural'' is completely false, the unnatural thing is growing plants indoor with no wind, regardless of the observation that it works. Stop selective reading things from great minds.. or if you are fully reading, they are not great minds.

You have some very serious superiority issues regarding other growers. You are not as smart as you think and tbf I feel ok to pull rank now because your constant bs is annoying and misleading for newer growers. You've never used led, cob or cmh. All you've ever done is grow in a small tent with hps, nothing wrong with that. But then you claim to be so insightful and knowledgeable just because you have read from the paragraphs of giants.

You are a self proclaimed pro who comes off as nothing more than mediocre tent growing condescending prick.. with a 1.1 slick tire fiesta. Brum brum.
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
All your points are valid and conveniently ignored by KingBS1. But what do you expect from someone who doesn't even know what "wind" is? You can't have evapotranspiration without convection (or vice versa), and you can't have photosynthesis without either. Plants themselves convert heat in the form of absorbed electromagnetic energy (light) during photosynthesis (an endothermic reaction), but also release much of that same absorbed energy which conversely ducts heat away to cool the plant in the form of an exothermic reaction known as non photochemical quenching. Conversely, the conversion of starches (stored energy) during photorespiration at night also releases heat.

Each of these heat-releasing activities cause convection at the leaf surface (which leads to evapotranspiration uptake of nutrient), but there is also a boundary layer in which some of that heat is trapped, inhibiting ambient convection caused by the difference in leaf temperature and ambient temperature. Molecular air movement disturbs that boundary layer to not only increase convective transfer of heat, but to facilitate evapotranspiration uptake of nutrients.

Indeed, convection is wind - and without such, there would be no photosynthesis. So all this talk about "extracting heat" without wind is bullshit. The same bullshit that says HID is king when the entire world is converting from heat-vapor elements (HID) to diode technology.

Just look at every street corner. HPS lamps owe their very development and success to street lighting - and yet municipalities around the world are exchanging them for LED technology. As are warehouses, commercial buildings and large-scale indoor horticulturalists.

Pot growers are way behind the times in that respect. Probably because people like KingBS1 persist in perpetuating myths!
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
TurboTokes said:
How do you fellas tell the lumens of these led setups. It sure would be nice to know such and such boards run with this driver will produce this many lumens, or atpeast ballpark figures

Still open to suggestions
Click to expand...
Lumens are for humans and are weighted more towards the green spectra, which the human eye is most sensitive to.

But if you want to directly compare (bearing in mind HIDs have a very high rate of lumen depreciation compared to LEDs), you can calculate it by reading the LED spec sheets.

To keep things simple, newer commercial LEDs such as Samsung's LM301Bs are producing around 200lm/w in 3500K. Manufacturers often quote their 600W HPS bulbs as producing around 150lm/w, but that drops off quite rapidly, which limits their effective life and is the reason why some commercial growers change bulbs every grow.

You also need to remember lumens per watt is based on total light output. LEDs reflect nearly all their light downwards, commonly at an angle of 120 degrees. HIDs reflect light in all directions, so are not as efficient when much of that light is being reflected off a hood. Indeed, in a horizontal grow, probably 25% or less of all HPS light that reaches a plant is direct light - the remainder has been reflected off another surface. That's why vertical grows are more efficient than horizontal grows.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Pull rank and step your shit up then, members here would love some pure wind science, it aint selective or subjective cause we can really go there in great detail....

Dont leave me snoring on this board, my intention is to chalkenge :-)


Flowki said:
1 - I don't see a lot of trolling or miss information surrounding leds any more. Go back a year or more and you were right. The same existed with cmh, ridicules claims.. in-fact it was only a few weeks ago a seller on here was claiming one 315 could replace a 600 (hoods aside). So is cmh shit?.. 95% of it's claims were bs too.

2 - Don't project, I have a great mind and very thankful for it. Those ''great minds'' you speak of either left out (or you did) key things that shuts that argument down. Wind helps with pollination and the spread of seeds. Wind helps plants and trees to grow more sturdy giving benefits against animal damage (elephants/bears/grazers/insects) or more extreme weather and I could go on and on. Do indoor plants need wind for the above? no but it would help for certain things (like rh pocket spot rot potential). Your comment or how you apply ''wind isn't natural'' is completely false, the unnatural thing is growing plants indoor with no wind, regardless of the observation that it works. Stop selective reading things from great minds.. or if you are fully reading, they are not great minds.

You have some very serious superiority issues regarding other growers. You are not as smart as you think and tbf I feel ok to pull rank now because your constant bs is annoying and misleading for newer growers. You've never used led, cob or cmh. All you've ever done is grow in a small tent with hps, nothing wrong with that. But then you claim to be so insightful and knowledgeable just because you have read from the paragraphs of giants.

You are a self proclaimed pro who comes off as nothing more than mediocre tent growing condescending prick.. with a 1.1 slick tire fiesta. Brum brum.
Click to expand...
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
I just want to add that i have never driven or owned a car :-)

Flowki said:
1 - I don't see a lot of trolling or miss information surrounding leds any more. Go back a year or more and you were right. The same existed with cmh, ridicules claims.. in-fact it was only a few weeks ago a seller on here was claiming one 315 could replace a 600 (hoods aside). So is cmh shit?.. 95% of it's claims were bs too.

2 - Don't project, I have a great mind and very thankful for it. Those ''great minds'' you speak of either left out (or you did) key things that shuts that argument down. Wind helps with pollination and the spread of seeds. Wind helps plants and trees to grow more sturdy giving benefits against animal damage (elephants/bears/grazers/insects) or more extreme weather and I could go on and on. Do indoor plants need wind for the above? no but it would help for certain things (like rh pocket spot rot potential). Your comment or how you apply ''wind isn't natural'' is completely false, the unnatural thing is growing plants indoor with no wind, regardless of the observation that it works. Stop selective reading things from great minds.. or if you are fully reading, they are not great minds.

You have some very serious superiority issues regarding other growers. You are not as smart as you think and tbf I feel ok to pull rank now because your constant bs is annoying and misleading for newer growers. You've never used led, cob or cmh. All you've ever done is grow in a small tent with hps, nothing wrong with that. But then you claim to be so insightful and knowledgeable just because you have read from the paragraphs of giants.

You are a self proclaimed pro who comes off as nothing more than mediocre tent growing condescending prick.. with a 1.1 slick tire fiesta. Brum brum.
Click to expand...
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
@Kingrow1 the wind you are fighting against from our circulation fans play a very important part in growing. It disturbs the leaves and helps stale and humid microclimates from forming under leaves and in buds.

And honestly I don’t see how you can argue with @Prawn Connery with the incredible room and results he shows. Thank you for your extensive testing prawn.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
@Kingrow1 the wind you are fighting against from our circulation fans play a very important part in growing. It disturbs the leaves and helps stale and humid microclimates from forming under leaves and in buds.

And honestly I don’t see how you can argue with @Prawn Connery with the incredible room and results he shows. Thank you for your extensive testing prawn.
Click to expand...
Prawns room is very flawed if your trying to derive results and some of his stuff aint that good. The same shits played out here everyday so let the whole site come to a concencus.

I was one of the few who accurately described ppfd, do some reading of free and forced convection, leaves in stagnant environments, leaf thermals and their effect on cooling. Theres a lot there and you will be more in line with science nit just weed sites.

If leaves needed wind moat houseplanrs and such would simply keel over.

Fucking site bitches about knowledge and then when they get jt they troll it off not work out if these things are right or wrong.

Weed teaches you to use fans, make wind, far from reality as most leqves revert to forced not free leaf cooling at approx 0.3m/s to 0.5m/s and that makes a difference.

You can google many wind burn threads, dont tell me this plant likes direct wind... forced leaf cooling equals damage.

QeD

Seriously i just hope this tweaks your mind to find the similar reading on google, it opens up a real way to give exact conditions in your tent :-)
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Prawns room is very flawed if your trying to derive results and some of his stuff aint that good. The same shits played out here everyday so let the whole site come to a concencus.

I was one of the few who accurately described ppfd, do some reading of free and forced convection, leaves in stagnant environments, leaf thermals and their effect on cooling. Theres a lot there and you will be more in line with science nit just weed sites.

If leaves needed wind moat houseplanrs and such would simply keel over.

Fucking site bitches about knowledge and then when they get jt they troll it off not work out if these things are right or wrong.

Weed teaches you to use fans, make wind, far from reality as most leqves revert to forced not free leaf cooling at approx 0.3m/s to 0.5m/s and that makes a difference.

You can google many wind burn threads, dont tell me this plant likes direct wind... forced leaf cooling equals damage.

QeD

Seriously i just hope this tweaks your mind to find the similar reading on google, it opens up a real way to give exact conditions in your tent :-)
Click to expand...

You are really on a tear about things. Everyone will go through a learning curve. You can get a PhD in horticulture and still mess up your grow.

I told you the actual reason for circulation fans above. I learned what I know from books, Greenhouse guides and university pages. I came here after I could grow successfully myself.

You should have more respect for fellow growers in my opinion.
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
@Kingrow1 the wind you are fighting against from our circulation fans play a very important part in growing. It disturbs the leaves and helps stale and humid microclimates from forming under leaves and in buds.

And honestly I don’t see how you can argue with @Prawn Connery with the incredible room and results he shows. Thank you for your extensive testing prawn.
Click to expand...
Thanks. As I mentioned, it's actually a friend's room who has kindly let me experiment with his commercial crop. However, he does have an ulterior motive in that, if the LEDs perform the way they have in my own room, then he will be replacing all his HIDs. And that will be a pure economic decision. Economics is, after all, a branch of science.
 
Prawn Connery

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Prawns room is very flawed if your trying to derive results and some of his stuff aint that good. The same shits played out here everyday so let the whole site come to a concencus.
Click to expand...
The consensus is you are as obtuse as you claim to be educated. How can you have the temerity to say you will "challenge" when you have addressed not a single valid point put before you?

We have yet to see you provide anything of substance in this thread.

But by all means, continue to ignore logic, science, experience and everyone around you. It is the coward's way to talk big and act small.
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Pull rank and step your shit up then, members here would love some pure wind science, it aint selective or subjective cause we can really go there in great detail....

Dont leave me snoring on this board, my intention is to chalkenge :-)
Click to expand...
I highly doubt members want to see that. If you want to philosophise over the historical presence of wind and how plants/trees evolved with it, we can do that in private chat. Or at-least in a sub forum where such a topic makes sense.

I do feel bad for letting go, but you really need to channel your knowledge and enthusiasm more constructively. Hypocritical to say that at this point, so I apologise for yesterdays out burst.
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Flowki said:
I highly doubt members want to see that. If you want to philosophise over the historical presence of wind and how plants/trees evolved with it, we can do that in private chat. Or at-least in a sub forum where such a topic makes sense.

I do feel bad for letting go, but you really need to channel your knowledge and enthusiasm more constructively. Hypocritical to say that at this point, so I apologise for yesterdays out burst.
Click to expand...
You and others are the joke, not about being superior its about knowledge and you and others made this site weak.

Dude over the years its clear you have struggled here, i dont :-)
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
MichiganMedGrower said:
You are really on a tear about things. Everyone will go through a learning curve. You can get a PhD in horticulture and still mess up your grow.

I told you the actual reason for circulation fans above. I learned what I know from books, Greenhouse guides and university pages. I came here after I could grow successfully myself.

You should have more respect for fellow growers in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Your not my fellow growers, you others and your bro science pushed those guys out ages ago.

Face the facts, you cant handle the real science, even wind and heat have you acratching heads whilst i lay it down pure fact.

Sorry we disagree but ya its not going to stop cause peeps love to read the alternative answers i give and my info is so much more complex than you basic 'plants need wind' shite.

How much wind? What speed? Just some random guess by a bunch of stoners is all i see from you noobies :-)
 
Kingrow1

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Any more info on wind? What happens to transpiration at certain speeds?

What are these words forced and free convection Dingslow is on about? What is a leaf energ budget? Why dosent a leaf die in dtagnant air? Why does a leaf still work underwater? How do gasses diffuse in stagnant air?

Just it seems im not allowed to discuss this stuff here because of all the pro growers like flowiki and mich med ruling da site and trolling what they dont like hmmmm....!
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Your not my fellow growers, you others and your bro science pushed those guys out ages ago.

Face the facts, you cant handle the real science, even wind and heat have you acratching heads whilst i lay it down pure fact.

Sorry we disagree but ya its not going to stop cause peeps love to read the alternative answers i give and my info is so much more complex than you basic 'plants need wind' shite.

How much wind? What speed? Just some random guess by a bunch of stoners is all i see from you noobies :-)
Click to expand...



Lol. Let’s see your awesome science driven garden.

You never showed any plants last time I asked.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
Ok, for those who are saying all these comments about heat output, heat is based on how many watts you use, a 315w cmh puts off 315w of heat, each watt is 3.41 btu about, so you can safely say 315w of light is 1074 btu of heat output.

And a 315 cmh is the best light for that area.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
Prawn Connery said:
All your points are valid and conveniently ignored by KingBS1. But what do you expect from someone who doesn't even know what "wind" is? You can't have evapotranspiration without convection (or vice versa), and you can't have photosynthesis without either. Plants themselves convert heat in the form of absorbed electromagnetic energy (light) during photosynthesis (an endothermic reaction), but also release much of that same absorbed energy which conversely ducts heat away to cool the plant in the form of an exothermic reaction known as non photochemical quenching. Conversely, the conversion of starches (stored energy) during photorespiration at night also releases heat.

Each of these heat-releasing activities cause convection at the leaf surface (which leads to evapotranspiration uptake of nutrient), but there is also a boundary layer in which some of that heat is trapped, inhibiting ambient convection caused by the difference in leaf temperature and ambient temperature. Molecular air movement disturbs that boundary layer to not only increase convective transfer of heat, but to facilitate evapotranspiration uptake of nutrients.

Indeed, convection is wind - and without such, there would be no photosynthesis. So all this talk about "extracting heat" without wind is bullshit. The same bullshit that says HID is king when the entire world is converting from heat-vapor elements (HID) to diode technology.

Just look at every street corner. HPS lamps owe their very development and success to street lighting - and yet municipalities around the world are exchanging them for LED technology. As are warehouses, commercial buildings and large-scale indoor horticulturalists.

Pot growers are way behind the times in that respect. Probably because people like KingBS1 persist in perpetuating myths!
Click to expand...
LEDs came from high bay warehouse lighting and street lighting, also cars headlights. LEDs have MUCH less research and development for horticulutal purposes than HID lights do. The type of LEDs that growers use are not designed for growing plants at all. Also white LEDs contain WAYYYYY too much blue in them since they are just a blue LED with a coating sprayed on them and unlike mh and cmh lights LEDs contain zero UV, which is essential for top shelf quality buds.
 
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