Real Organics

Grandpa GreenJeans

Well-Known Member
I'm new here, and there is a ton of great info and also a ton of shit info. The purpose of this thread is to discuss the concept of organic and what you think is a TRUE ORGANIC APPROCH, and share any experience where organics have excelled past the current standards of synthetic methods.

I'd like to start this with soil preperation as I believe it's the most important aspect that's overlooked.
A good and organic soil will encourage microbial activity. Not just bacteria but fungi too. Fungi are important because they attach to the plants roots. Fungal mycelium is far more dense and consumes more of the rooting space. In nature endo/ect myco fungi are know to run deep in the earth and transport nutrient to the roots that otherwise the plant could never access. They also share a relationship with the plant and it's a "vice versa" trade off of sharing nutrients. In addition fungi is an excellent decomposer. So any organic element that's in the soil it will share with the plant.

Bacteria have an equally important role in the soil, they munch food and excrete exudates. Exudates are bio avaiable and immediately avaiable to the roots for up take. They also assist in self adjusting (buffering) pH. It's the way mother nature intended, but it doesn't come free.

In a forest trees fall, limbs and leaves drop. This is all organic matter and as organic it's made up of the very minerals and elements plants need to survive. When these organics are composted and are returned to the plants it's called the microbial loop.

I'd like to show you how I do "ORGANIC". Take from it what you can, I'm sure there's alot of recipies, methods, traditions, ideologies and theories. Please post them, let's learn and grow together.
 
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Grandpa GreenJeans

Well-Known Member
When I make soil I consider the CEC of the ingredients. How do they hold and release elements based on plant needs. How do they react with certain elements. Water retention and air is another thing to seriously think about. And finally their natural pH and abilities to buffer pH.

My mix goes like this.
Coco coir (pith, fiber, chips)
Canadian peat
Course #3 perlite (washed first to remove dust. Dust and tiny particles can cause blockages and prevent drainage)
Par boiled rice hulls
Hydroton (LECA)
Mushroom compost
Leaf mold
Rock dust
High P guano
Alfalfa meal
Kelp meal
Brewer's yeast
Endo/Ecto +Tricoderma
Powdered lime

I'll mix it all up and let sit. This is going to get watered with some tea. Let the buffet begin.

I'm going to give my tea recipe, not all have these ingredient but it can be tweeked. Any AACT is better than water or no tea at all, so you really can't fail.

I start with 5 gallons of RODI (reverse osmosis, de ionized water)
I make my own fertilizer and I have a veg formula and a bloom formula. Veg is 1 whole fish and 4 gallons of Lake weeks pureed and fermented with lacto bacillus.
The bloom is bat guano, bananas, molasses, oats and grapes.
Just like earth juice, just a different initial blend of ingredients.
Any and all water, or food that hit my soil get brewed in the vortex first. Then after pH stabilizes and nutrients are available it's applied. Always! Even plain water days need a boost of 02 in the mix.

Grandpa's Tea:
5ml/gallon Ferment Veg
5ml/gallon Ferment Bloom
Humic Acid 10ml/gallon
Fulvic Acid 10ml/gallon
Liquid silica 1.25ml/gallon
Epsom Salt 1 tsp/gallon
Earth juice CATYLIST 9ml/gallon
Calimagic. 5ml/gallon
Age old kelp 5ml/gallon
Aquashield 6ml/gallon
Microbe life photosynthesis plus. 12ml/gallon
Ancient forest 250ml/5 gallon.

Brew for 48 hours-
**pictures taken while starting the brew**
pH 4.6
Temp 67F
PPM 750
 

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Grandpa GreenJeans

Well-Known Member
I will post pictures of the brew at different hour intervals to show the microbial activity and biofilms.
After, I will hydrate all soil and incubate the mix until the microbes take hold and colonize. I never plant in dead soil.
FEED THE MICROBES, then they'll feed the plants.
 

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
When I make soil I consider the CEC of the ingredients. How do they hold and release elements based on plant needs. How do they react with certain elements. Water retention and air is another thing to seriously think about. And finally their natural pH and abilities to buffer pH.

My mix goes like this.
Coco coir (pith, fiber, chips)
Canadian peat
Course #3 perlite (washed first to remove dust. Dust and tiny particles can cause blockages and prevent drainage)
Par boiled rice hulls
Hydroton (LECA)
Mushroom compost
Leaf mold
Rock dust
High P guano
Alfalfa meal
Kelp meal
Brewer's yeast
Endo/Ecto +Tricoderma
Powdered lime

I'll mix it all up and let sit. This is going to get watered with some tea. Let the buffet begin.

I'm going to give my tea recipe, not all have these ingredient but it can be tweeked. Any AACT is better than water or no tea at all, so you really can't fail.

I start with 5 gallons of RODI (reverse osmosis, de ionized water)
I make my own fertilizer and I have a veg formula and a bloom formula. Veg is 1 whole fish and 4 gallons of Lake weeks pureed and fermented with lacto bacillus.
The bloom is bat guano, bananas, molasses, oats and grapes.
Just like earth juice, just a different initial blend of ingredients.
Any and all water, or food that hit my soil get brewed in the vortex first. Then after pH stabilizes and nutrients are available it's applied. Always! Even plain water days need a boost of 02 in the mix.

Grandpa's Tea:
5ml/gallon Ferment Veg
5ml/gallon Ferment Bloom
Humic Acid 10ml/gallon
Fulvic Acid 10ml/gallon
Liquid silica 1.25ml/gallon
Epsom Salt 1 tsp/gallon
Earth juice CATYLIST 9ml/gallon
Calimagic. 5ml/gallon
Age old kelp 5ml/gallon
Aquashield 6ml/gallon
Microbe life photosynthesis plus. 12ml/gallon
Ancient forest 250ml/5 gallon.

Brew for 48 hours-
**pictures taken while starting the brew**
pH 4.6
Temp 67F
PPM 750
Thats one epic tea. How often do you apply? Ill stick to water molasses and ewc myself. Welcome btw.
Also my def of organic growing means zero bottles zero pesticides. Water only. Imo any bottles nutrient regime or "organic" nutrients are subpar to living soil everytime.
 

Grandpa GreenJeans

Well-Known Member
Thats one epic tea. How often do you apply? Ill stick to water molasses and ewc myself. Welcome btw.
Also my def of organic growing means zero bottles zero pesticides. Water only. Imo any bottles nutrient regime or "organic" nutrients are subpar to living soil everytime.
Thanks, I apply fortified tea every 2 waterings. Feed, water, water, feed. But it's all just a guideline. I'll feed more frequently if the plants need it.
I see where your going with "living soil". I compost my leaves too, I just don't dump or tuck them in the soil tho. I'll ferment them first, aka bokashi, then let the microbes in the soil have fun. Ultimatley, if if the bottled nuts are organic, or it was originally sourced in the soil, plants will contain whatever their diet consisted of. Living soil is always founded and made possible by an organic approach. To me it doesn't make any bit of difference if it comes from a bottle or you make it yourself, as long as it's truly organic.
 

green_machine_two9er

Well-Known Member
Sll my leaves go in the worm bin. Compost pile or used in my biochar compost.
Thanks, I apply fortified tea every 2 waterings. Feed, water, water, feed. But it's all just a guideline. I'll feed more frequently if the plants need it.
I see where your going with "living soil". I compost my leaves too, I just don't dump or tuck them in the soil tho. I'll ferment them first, aka bokashi, then let the microbes in the soil have fun. Ultimatley, if if the bottled nuts are organic, or it was originally sourced in the soil, plants will contain whatever their diet consisted of. Living soil is always founded and made possible by an organic approach. To me it doesn't make any bit of difference if it comes from a bottle or you make it yourself, as long as it's truly organic.
And i agree with you on everything but bottled nutrients haveing any place in living soil. I dont care if the top shekf nectar of the gods. Still doesnt work with this type of growing. Sure it works. Snd grows very nice product. But imo any nutrient regime is more suitable for soiless mediums.
. Like you said the inoculation of bacteria and fungi is of upmost importance. But i think its much more efficient to do a simple ewc molasses tea 3 times total through whole grow. Good souce of fungal food ( rice, oatmeal). Plenty of mychos directly to roots at transplanting. And compost. Compost compost!

The soil food web is resilient and in prime conditions one should not need to appy teas more than once a month.
Every three watering s seems a bit excessive and honestly im lost with your tea recipe. Not hating or anything just saying it seems WAY more complicated than it has to be.
 

Grandpa GreenJeans

Well-Known Member
You mentioned the exact word, soiless. Nothing about my soil list is dirt. I don't do for my outdoors what I do for indoors. My nutrient regime is dependant on my efforts. What I put in it it will return. You talk about bottled nutrients like their poison, but how are leaves that grew on a plant fed kelp and then munched by worms any different than water soluble organic cold water kelp fees via watering or microbe tea?

Don't get me wrong, I love KISS, but science and plant biology just isn't that simple. Every nutrient has a function and to rely on burying leaves from a killer crop or feeding them to worm and making tea doesn't don't for me. There's more to why the why happens, you know what I mean. I prefer a more hands approach I guess.
 

Grandpa GreenJeans

Well-Known Member
Sll my leaves go in the worm bin. Compost pile or used in my biochar compost.

And i agree with you on everything but bottled nutrients haveing any place in living soil. I dont care if the top shekf nectar of the gods. Still doesnt work with this type of growing. Sure it works. Snd grows very nice product. But imo any nutrient regime is more suitable for soiless mediums.
. Like you said the inoculation of bacteria and fungi is of upmost importance. But i think its much more efficient to do a simple ewc molasses tea 3 times total through whole grow. Good souce of fungal food ( rice, oatmeal). Plenty of mychos directly to roots at transplanting. And compost. Compost compost!

The soil food web is resilient and in prime conditions one should not need to appy teas more than once a month.
Every three watering s seems a bit excessive and honestly im lost with your tea recipe. Not hating or anything just saying it seems WAY more complicated than it has to be.
I'd be more than happy to break down each nutrient additions use and value to my recipe. Stay tuned please.
 

Grandpa GreenJeans

Well-Known Member
So from about 1:30pm yesterday afternoon till now 8:06am this morning.
The pH has jumped way up and microbes are going nutz. The brew smells sweet like banana but with a mushroom overtone. I'm pumped!
Temp has stayed stable at 70F and the ppm has slightly dropped as it did before.
At 1:30pm today, I'm dumping it. That's the 48hr mark. At 1:30 I'll throw up another pic of the brew. I'm going to soak the soil and feed to the pepper plants. Pepper plants are being used to show the results from my recipe.
1445260194930.jpg
 

Grandpa GreenJeans

Well-Known Member
oh my i'm in love....i need a fucken loan or a cheap headstahs i need to update my shit man! lol
I'm a nerd, that's why I prefer all they techy shit. Plus I can stand the pH paper. Auto temp compensation is probably the most important feature as it give me clarity and peace of mind.
The brewer was very cheap to build. J Already had the 80L/M pump but that's only $40. The pvc was mabey $3 and that was for a 12 foot piece. The ball valve was around $12 and the joints were mabey $7 total. I'd highly recommend a brewer with an air lift. No more stones to clog with enzymes and biofilms. Best idea I have ever made.
 

Grandpa GreenJeans

Well-Known Member
Anyone who finds this thread helpful I'd also encouraged to visit the thread called
"From scratch only. No bottles of pre made "stuff". It's very informative and gives recipies. It's true organics at its best!
 
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