Quick fix for Calcium and Magnesium

Discussion in 'Organics' started by thrash4ever, Apr 10, 2011.

  1.  
    thrash4ever

    thrash4ever Active Member

    Hi,

    I need a rapid solution to fixing Ca and Mg deficiencies. BioBizz mixes have no Calcium and trace amounts of Magnesium.

    I would like the solution to be organic but push comes to shove I will be forced to get Canna Mono Ca and Mg supplements tomorrow.

    I have organic milk in the fridge but I don't know how plants react to animal fats :-o

    Any suggestions appreciated as ever.
  2.  
    thexception

    thexception Well-Known Member

    now let me preface this with i have neither tried this nor heard anyone using calcium this way, nor do i know if the plants will uptake it in this form, but the 1st thing that comes to mind is Tums, or similar, which r in effect calcium tablets. (chalk also is calcium) u could take the Tums & crumble them up & then mix them with hot water to dissolve, then mix it with ur water & feed. of course magnesium would be epsom salts, used in the same matter, dissolved first. I would not use the milk as it will sour ur soil & could cause further problems with negative microbes, microorganisms, bacteria, & the like forming in ur soil.
  3.  
    thrash4ever

    thrash4ever Active Member

    Thanks xception, that's what I thought re: milk.
    Was reading about people's suggestions about using tums on here last night, funnily enough.
    If I was able to pulverise egg shells these should be rich in calcium, too, right?
  4.  
    Carl Spackler

    Carl Spackler Well-Known Member

    While egg shells would certainly be organic it is largely an insoluble form of calcium and would take months to break down into a useable form (even if crushed into dust). The other issue is what rate would you be applying? I won't get into a long debate regarding organic vs. inorganic but with the commercially available amendments such as Cal-Mag at least you know the concentration of the product and it is 100% soluble/available to the plant at a critical time in plant development.
  5.  
    woodsmaneh!

    woodsmaneh! Well-Known Member

    Not organic but Cal-Mag is the answer.
  6.  
    Nullis

    Nullis Moderator

    Organicare - Calplex and Huvega is a good, organic solution. Calpex is soluble calcium carbonate, Huvega has magnesium sulfate plus other minerals and fulvic acids which aid in absorption. They sell 8 oz bottles of the Organicare line and the Calplex is quite cheap. Huvega is a bit more expensive; both will last a while if all you used it for was foliar.

    I don't know that it takes 'months' for finely ground egg-shell (which is calcium carbonate) to become available to the plant, but it isn't immediate. Same goes for dolomite limestone (Ca Mg carbonate), but at any rate you want to add it in sooner than later. The more finely ground/micronized the material is, the sooner it will be available. Most of us that grow organically put all of this stuff (dolomite, egg shell, gypsum, etc.) into our grow media from the outset. I also [try to] water in more micronized dolomite every other week or so.

    Hydrated lime should be immediately available to plant roots, but I haven't ever used it.
  7.  
    thrash4ever

    thrash4ever Active Member

    Great posts, very informative.
    My suspicions confirmed regarding egg shells, it makes sense logically, too - hard substances with concrete-like bonds becoming immediately available at a liquid, micro level.

    Yes, it's a critical time of development: the second half of the flowering cycle with some forty days left and my girls crying out for some mineral loving.

    Once again, cheers for all the suggestions. I will try to grab Cal-Mag (I see it mentioned on the forums a great deal, it's the business); not seen it around but have definitely seen the Canna Mono range in my local shop, and will buy individual canisters of Ca and Mg, most likely.

    Next time I will go for 100% organic, been desperate to find dolomite lime, but this is an emergency situation that should not impact taste too much. Main concern is maximising yield right now. All a learning process.
  8.  
    Wolverine97

    Wolverine97 Well-Known Member

    Get General Organics cal mag+, it works well and isn't terribly expensive.
  9.  
    thrash4ever

    thrash4ever Active Member

    Sorry people, had to grab the Canna Mono stuff as it was the only shit available. Got about a decade's worth :clap:

    canna mono.jpg

    Just added 3 ml each of Magnesium and Calcium (6 ml total) to my 2 L feed today; 400 ml per plant (0.6 ml Ca and 0.6 ml Mg). That's a 3/4 dose if 2ml per litre is suggested. Ditto for the feed - 3/4 dose.

    Let's see if the girls halt that leaf-curling, blotching and rusting nonsense! Oh - pH was balanced, too. Feed, I say, feeeed! :D

    What do you reckon, observe and if on the mend repeat in a couple of days? I will drop the Mg and Ca doses if and when the leaf behaviour returns to normal.
  10.  
    VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO

    VICTORYGARDENSHYDRO New Member

    better check those labels, general hydros cal-mag is made from molasses and doesn't have some of the needed metals that Magi-cal has
    http://www.technaflora.com/templates/technaflora/images/analysis/tablemagical.gif




    CaMg+™
    calcium magnesium supplement

    CaMg+ is the ideal supplement to provide a natural source of Calcium and Magnesium, critical elements in a plants growth cycle. These elements are often absent in many fertilizers and potting mixes, resulting in stunted growth. CaMg+ is biologically catalyzed from oyster shell, dolomite lime, and natural plant extracts. Through the use of organic compounds, CaMg+ increases calcium and magnesium transport into the plants. This optimizes plant metabolism, enhancing growth and creating healthier flowers and fruits.
  11.  
    Zcomfort

    Zcomfort Active Member

    Does espon salt have calcium in it? I know it has magnesium.
  12.  
    Wetdog

    Wetdog Well-Known Member

    On the next go round, why not add some dolomite lime to your mix and avoid all this from the git go?

    Wet
  13.  
    thrash4ever

    thrash4ever Active Member

  14.  
    NightbirdX

    NightbirdX Well-Known Member

    Maybe nute burn?
  15.  
    hyroot

    hyroot Well-Known Member

    sounds like alot ph and phosphorus deficiency, calcium deficiency, and water that has been sitting out.for too long. need to see a picture to be sure. for cal and mag use molasses. it has 4% cal and 2% mag. which is more than cal mag or calplex.
  16.  
    thrash4ever

    thrash4ever Active Member

    Hi, there is a link to the problem in my post above - the middle line.

    I very much doubt it is toxic nutrient conditions. Media were flushed last Friday. Have only given them two full feeds in nearly two weeks.
    pH is being rectified but fan leaves all across one of my specimens are rolling over and doing the leaf curl/crisp - pH, P and Ca problems (I guess?) as you point out. There is mild rust spotting which seems like Mg deficiency.
    Water is Brita jug-filtered (bought a new filter), eliminating heavy metals and a lot of the chlorine even when poured fresh (which is what I usually mix with). At most it is left overnight and naturally warms towards room temperature.

    I have picked up the Canna Mono Mg and Ca supplements.
    http://www.canna.com/site/dhtml/products_additives_mono.php

    MgO is at 7% while Calcium is at 15% in the Canna bottles. There are only trace amounts of Magnesium (0.03%) in BioBizz Top Max. Zero calcium in the BioBizz range (no joke).
    What is a suitable dose for 2 litres of total solution (about 400 ml per plant per feed/water)? Suggested amounts (on the bottles) are up to 2 ml per litre which I adhered to yesterday.
    Performed an additional, extremely light feed and Ca/Mg supplement today over 2 litres (2 ml Ca and 1 ml Mg).
  17.  
    thrash4ever

    thrash4ever Active Member

    Ok, no answer on doses but not too worried I am giving them too much.

    Did an Epsom salt (MgO) foliar feed (2 ml in a litre, sprayed onto foliage), and a Ca-supplemented water (2 ml in a litre, divided by 5 for each plant's dose). That way there is no chance of each antagonising the other.

    Calcium, being an immobile element will show deficiency in the newest growth. When should symptoms cessate? When should I expect to see differences or normalisation of leaf tip rolling/crisping behaviour?

    Grey splotches have almost entirely dissipated and necrotic leaf tips are showing brown/rusty/margin yellowing where curl once was. It sort of looks like a scab or scar, I guess...

    Rust spotting has become prominent on top most new growth (rather than tip curl), I hope this is indicative of pH and Phosporous conditions on the mend and one of Calcium/Magnesium (perhaps Potassium) being needed more now.

    Ideas?
  18.  
    Wolverine97

    Wolverine97 Well-Known Member

    The rust spotting at the top could also be a boron deficiency, I get that in my OG pretty bad if I'm not careful.
  19.  
    thrash4ever

    thrash4ever Active Member

    Cheers for the tip, Wolverine. My trace elements additive (again, non-organic) contains this but I have purposefully backed off using it for a while to make sure there is no trace elements toxicity.
    My organic grow succumbed to the nasty synthetics, at least I will save my crop... I hope!
    Interesting thread in the general grow area on the same topic:
    http://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/424505-nutes-cal-mag.html
    I posted in there, too.

    Seems like many, many people encounter Ca and Mg deficiencies, if there is a sticky on the topic I have not seen it.

    The BioBizz range should come with a huge label on it reading: ALSO GET DOLOMITE LIME! Meh :-|
  20.  
    TheOrganic

    TheOrganic Well-Known Member

    Lets see some pics this will tell a story that we can help more with.

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