Question About Being A Caregiver

Cory and trevor

Well-Known Member
Using health services is a pretty bad example, imo. The "health services" in this country is driven by greed and profit. Money comes before a persons health and well being, and that is pretty fucked up if you ask me. That shouldn't be the case in a caregiver/patient relationship.

If you don't have a job that pays the bills, the profit motive enters the equation, and you may find yourself in a spot where you have to decide between providing meds to a sick patient that is broke, or paying your own rent. Not a good scenario.

Besides that, how are you going to report your profit? Are you going to pay federal and/or state taxes on sales of a schedule 1 narcotic, or are you going to try and convince the IRS that you have a house, a car, a 52" HD TV, etc ..... but no source of income?
I think his point isn't specifically with health care but more to the point that even life saving services cost money for patients. Cancer patients with or without insurance must find a way to compensate their helath care provider and radiologist etc. If they don't pay either from their insurance co. or out of pocket they literally die. That's a so-called legit medical practice and there are NO free radiation treatments minus the very rare charitable organizations who PAY for the service for the patients. point being everyone pays for everything this should not be viewed as different. hats off to free providers, you are in a better place then me to offer your services for free. I cannot.
 

purklize

Active Member
Yeah - not looking forward to what they have to say. As of November 2010, the 4-3 conservative majority has been back.
 

Cory and trevor

Well-Known Member
Last good/bad/indifferent news I read about courts and the MMMA was that there was an overturn in an apeals court system that set precident for legal transfers of compensation and medicine from patient to patient. Oh, and Bill Schuette is a dick, that's printed daily though.
 

gladstoned

Well-Known Member
I heard the same thing. The dispensary that I go to, is right by a police station. They will serve more than five people today and they are profiting from medical marijuana. it's kinda humorous. There wasn't nearly this many people worried about the laws five years ago. All these people didn't just start smoking. Same people going 80 mph on I-75. lol. Out of curiosity how much time would one get in Michigan for selling an ounce to a cop that says he has cancer, but doesn't have a card. Federal Law says someone convicted of having 999 plants will do five years. If a dispensary gets busted with $500,000 how much time do you think they will serve??? Do you think they will do time?
 

purklize

Active Member
I knew someone who, 7 or 8 years ago, up in the UP east of Marquette, got 60 days in county after taking a possession of 2oz (I think) of schwag case to court (they got him on intent to distribute). Some other guy got 10 months for selling a pound to a cop, and someone I knew in a neighboring state with similar laws sold a few ounces to a cop and also got 60 days.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
According to the Court of Appeals, it's illegal for you to take those overages to the dispensary. They stated that the only way for you to get any compensation is from patients that you are connected to by the registry. So if you want to obey the law, you have two choices: ask the patients for money, or go broke.

If you're spending 40 hours a week or more growing, learning, and delivering, then yes, you should be making a living off of it. If you can't, few will do it. No one will let their kids starve because they decided to work for free full-time for charity, using up all their time and energy, and turning down paying jobs.

Time is money - this is what those who have lived sheltered lives never seen to understand. If you spend all your time doing something that pays nothing, you will have no time to do things that pay. If it costs $500 a month to keep the grow running, $5000 to get it started, your mortgage is $1000 a month, you have three kids to feed and are a single parent so this costs you at least 20 hours a week, and the growing, researching, and delivering costs you another 40 hours a week, what are you going to do? Be generous and ask for no compensation? This would do the patients no favors. This path is a short one to foreclosure - the end of the grow - and being thrown out of your house by the sheriff.

Every hour spent volunteering is an hour that could be spent working for pay. And most of us in Michigan need money very badly. Especially patients - who are frequently also caregivers. Many of these evil caregivers that don't give free meds every month are using that money to buy medicines they can barely afford... for bus fares... etc...

There's 168 hours in the week. We need 56 hours of sleep a week to remain healthy. Attending to hygiene, running errands, and preparing healthy meals is going to take another 20 hours a week, minimum. We're already down to 92 hours available in the week, max - what about time spent socializing? Recreation? Exercising? Taking a break on the weekend to spend time with the wife and kids? To feel vaguely like a normal middle class person, and not a sweatshop slave on the verge of a nervous meltdown with a disintegrating family, this is going to cost at least another 20 hours a week. 72 left now. What about time spent taking care of the kids? Unless you plan on being negligent - another 20 hours is gone. Now you have 52 hours in the week left to earn a living. If growing and delivering takes a single second of this time, you can't maintain a salaried job. I don't know anyone working full time who works less than 50 hours a week. So by growing and delivering for patients they are sacrificing the opportunity for a well paid job, and throwing away a lot of income. If the growing takes even just an average of 20 hours a week - a rather low estimate for a big garden - how are they going to make enough of a living to pay the mortgage, pay $500 in grow related bills every month, feed the kids, get health insurance, etc. (not even going to mention things like taking the kids on "vacation" somewhere other than with you to work once in a while!) if all they have is 30 hours of time a week, and the patients refuse to compensate them in any way for the risk and sacrifice they've endured? Not going to happen!

Try walking a mile in their shoes before you judge...
I work 40+ hours a week, I have a wife and 3 kids, and I tend a garden for myself and 3 other patients. I have plenty of time to play with my kids and go to their events, take the wife out for dinner at least once a week, and I even find the time to watch the Lions every Sunday.

I'm not sure what your situation is, but this really isn't that difficult to accomplish if you want to put the thought and hard work in to it. I don't rely on my garden for a living. I enjoy doing it, and I enjoy helping people out that need the help. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back .... it is what it is.

I've stated my reasons for why I don't think it's very bright to rely on this as your sole source of income. I stand by my comments. Apparently I struck a nerve with you, but that wasn't my intentions. Just my opinion.
 

purklize

Active Member
Could you do it without your wife taking care of the kids, running errands during the day and cooking dinner? There are a lot of single parents doing this, those are who I'm talking about there. What if you started having infestation problems in the garden - which can and will happen to anyone - the time and expense involved can get pretty incredible when battling root aphids or the like. I managed to pull a decent personal mmj crop this summer, but it took me over 40 hours of work a week, if you include time spent researching solutions. Beating root aphids took dunking every plant in the garden at least once a week... for six months... all with RO water, so I had to filter it all too, my tap is toxic... MAJOR pain in the ass... whenever I tell people that gardening is a lot of work, invariably someone who hasn't had any serious problems chimes in to talk about their effortless grow and cut down those who have to deal with time consuming and expensive misfortunes (BuddyGanga...)... which I think is probably most growers, and why so few are willing to part with bud for under 250-300 a zip.

What I really disagree with is your suggestion that caregivers break the law (according to the Court of Appeals) and risk jail to break even by taking overages to a dispensary, instead of asking those they're helping to help pay the bills.

Either way a "patient" is going to pay you for your growing... whether it involves paying the doubled price at the dispensary, or paying you directly...

Also, if you give away free ounces, I bet half of those are ending up bagged into eights and sold on the street. The temptation is too great. If the price is totally out of step with the market you encourage dirty shit to happen.

Everyone knows everyone needs access to health care. Anyone with half a brain knows health care professionals, from pharmaceutical manufacturers to doctors, need to be paid to be able to continue helping people. A doctor isn't going to do well (and very few will want to do anything) if being a doctor means working all day unpaid, then going to work at the 7/11 to pay the rent, and then the dumpster to stock the fridge. It is very true that the sick frequently cannot afford to pay for their health care. That's why it needs to be paid for by society as a whole and those with good fortunes. You are chipping in here. That I respect greatly. But what I don't like are those with attitudes like BuddyGanga's, heaping blame onto those providing health care (unless their rates are particularly obscene) for trying to survive. The problem with health care in the US, mmj being no exception, is that the wrong people are paying the bills.
 

gladstoned

Well-Known Member
stow, many are defensive because they don't have that 40 hour a week job. Many people had what you have and then they lose their job and they aren't kids, they have kids. Maybe you have to smoke less and offer more to feed your children. You are doing it right and that is great. The Michigan dream. Job, wife, kids, your own grow and you have so much in life you are helping out friends. Truly awesome. You don't come off as a guy, that If anything happened to take your income, you would successfully provide for your family and still help others and keep heat in the house and food on the table. If you lost your job, maybe you would have to spend more time vegging your plants for a bigger harvest, switching to hydro for more harvests, that takes time. I spend more than 40 hours a week reading books and internet alone! In a little time, once I then indeed know everything (lol), I will be able to back off and focus back on snowmobiling, ice fishing, and relaxing. lol. I am not a bum or a piece of shit. I was getting funding from the state to go to college instead of going back to work as a carpenter, seriously. I came out of federal prison and took home more going to college and collecting unemployment. I built houses for almost twenty years, from Detroit to Big Bay. The state lost jobs, educated people left state. No worker left behind was for educating michigan's work force. I am half way through college. The governor cut the funding, they cut the programs, and then they took my unemployment. If I had small children to take care of, wtf would I do. Many out there have the kids and eviction notices. I would rather have a guy try to make a living honestly than breaking into houses and shit. If I put a fresh eggs $2/doz sign in front of my house. Or I set up a stand with my fresh vegetables. A farmer takes food that we need to live, and they charge what people will pay, a farmer is a hard working, honest man.
The people that make me sick are the ones that sell pills, meth, herione. If a dude becomes a legal caregiver and grows legally I don't think any jury will lock him up.
I am certainly not arguing, but I do understand.
 

kindfarms420

Active Member
If you pay taxes on it you will get screwed. Irs is a federal thing and feds say its illegal but they will still take your money.Most likely charge you with a federal crime.
you do realize there are tons of people that pay state and federal taxes on medical marijuana like 95% of all the dispensaries.. if you are ONLY a caregiver then you should definatly show income because if you dont thats when your going to get popped you just cant use any write offs on your FEDERAL taxes but you can on your state taxes.. all's you do when you do them is DON'T put the word marijuana anywhere on your taxes you just put your self employed and you do random jobs for people..there are even just strait up drug dealers that pay there taxes...basically if you don't pay your taxes thats going to raise a bigger red flag than you paying them as a self employed person i just would use small numbers not i made 60k doing random shit
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Could you do it without your wife taking care of the kids, running errands during the day and cooking dinner? There are a lot of single parents doing this, those are who I'm talking about there. What if you started having infestation problems in the garden - which can and will happen to anyone - the time and expense involved can get pretty incredible when battling root aphids or the like. I managed to pull a decent personal mmj crop this summer, but it took me over 40 hours of work a week, if you include time spent researching solutions. Beating root aphids took dunking every plant in the garden at least once a week... for six months... all with RO water, so I had to filter it all too, my tap is toxic... MAJOR pain in the ass... whenever I tell people that gardening is a lot of work, invariably someone who hasn't had any serious problems chimes in to talk about their effortless grow and cut down those who have to deal with time consuming and expensive misfortunes (BuddyGanga...)... which I think is probably most growers, and why so few are willing to part with bud for under 250-300 a zip.

What I really disagree with is your suggestion that caregivers break the law (according to the Court of Appeals) and risk jail to break even by taking overages to a dispensary, instead of asking those they're helping to help pay the bills.

Either way a "patient" is going to pay you for your growing... whether it involves paying the doubled price at the dispensary, or paying you directly...

Also, if you give away free ounces, I bet half of those are ending up bagged into eights and sold on the street. The temptation is too great. If the price is totally out of step with the market you encourage dirty shit to happen.

Everyone knows everyone needs access to health care. Anyone with half a brain knows health care professionals, from pharmaceutical manufacturers to doctors, need to be paid to be able to continue helping people. A doctor isn't going to do well (and very few will want to do anything) if being a doctor means working all day unpaid, then going to work at the 7/11 to pay the rent, and then the dumpster to stock the fridge. It is very true that the sick frequently cannot afford to pay for their health care. That's why it needs to be paid for by society as a whole and those with good fortunes. You are chipping in here. That I respect greatly. But what I don't like are those with attitudes like BuddyGanga's, heaping blame onto those providing health care (unless their rates are particularly obscene) for trying to survive. The problem with health care in the US, mmj being no exception, is that the wrong people are paying the bills.
My wife works too. Around 25 to 30 hours a week. I have dealt with pest infestations as well. I'm just now on the tale end of a 4 month battle with spider mites. I understand the shit that can pop up ..... which is one reason why I don't think people should rely on this to pay the bills. Too much can go wrong, and I refuse to subject my family to the possibility of being without a roof over their heads. Again, I don't think it's a smart thing to do.

You seem like a nice fellow, purklize. I'm not judging you or anyone else for what you are doing. I'm not taking a moral position on anything here. I'm simply stating that you (or anyone else doing this full time) could find yourself in a tough situation with this. Relying on this for a living means that either a) You have to file federal and state taxes on the INCOME you are earning on a schedule 1 drug, or b) You have to be prepared to explain how you are existing on no documented income to the IRS if they ever come knocking.
 

kindfarms420

Active Member
Using health services is a pretty bad example, imo. The "health services" in this country is driven by greed and profit. Money comes before a persons health and well being, and that is pretty fucked up if you ask me. That shouldn't be the case in a caregiver/patient relationship.

If you don't have a job that pays the bills, the profit motive enters the equation, and you may find yourself in a spot where you have to decide between providing meds to a sick patient that is broke, or paying your own rent. Not a good scenario.

Besides that, how are you going to report your profit? Are you going to pay federal and/or state taxes on sales of a schedule 1 narcotic, or are you going to try and convince the IRS that you have a house, a car, a 52" HD TV, etc ..... but no source of income?

if you're a caregiver and you have a house and your growing in it wouldn't that be your place of business? so you take your house and use it as a homebased business also that would fall into a non-profit paying your mortgage because its part of your expenses also having a "non-profit" business doesn't mean you can't make an income it means anything after your income and expenses are paid that extra money is "profit" that you would need to figure something out to do with like spend it at the grocery store
 

purklize

Active Member
st0w, most of what I'm saying isn't really aimed at you - I'm frustrated with some of the other very judgmental opinions I've seen on this site and venting. I definitely wouldn't take overages to a dispensary myself, hence if I were caregiving I'd have little choice but to ask for help. I should've clarified that that was the only thing really meant for you.

I agree as well that it's a poor choice for a career. I think it's dangerous and unreliable income, and if you manage to make anything off it, even just a janitor's salary, you get mobbed with criticism for your "greed."

You and your wife must be faring much better somehow than I was when I last had consistent employment (early summer). Working 50-60 hours a week, dealing with all the garden problems and researching them, cooking, running errands (no car so I have to walk everywhere), etc... it left me sleeping 4 hours a night for months and led to serious health problems.
 

gladstoned

Well-Known Member
They have books on this shit. You have rich growers (apparently) that put out bushel baskets of top-shelf meds on there porch everyday at noon and then on the other end of the spectrum you have dispensaries to even charge OVER $20 a gram. I spent $22 a gram at dort and atherton in flint and on Mack ave in Detroit. (and it was good shit). There is a lot of legal area in between. I think everyone that is too scared is going to miss out and the grow experience you arent' getting now will hurt you and your patients in the future. There are professionals that make a living by telling you how to make a living being a caregiver. lol. Isn't this all common knowledge? This is the wave of the future.
Not you stowandgrow, I am sure, because you openly describe your situation and how you feel, but there are many growers that hate the competition and they tell everyone, don't do it, run, leave state, borrow a friends car to go to the dispensary, blah blah blah. This can be done, and it is being done. I will run my mouth and keyboard, I haven't done it and I dont' make a living being a caregiver. But I sure the fuck am studying it and getting ready. We have several patients ready and willing. I know it's being done and I'm on this site and others learning everything I can.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
stow, many are defensive because they don't have that 40 hour a week job. Many people had what you have and then they lose their job and they aren't kids, they have kids. Maybe you have to smoke less and offer more to feed your children. You are doing it right and that is great. The Michigan dream. Job, wife, kids, your own grow and you have so much in life you are helping out friends. Truly awesome. You don't come off as a guy, that If anything happened to take your income, you would successfully provide for your family and still help others and keep heat in the house and food on the table. If you lost your job, maybe you would have to spend more time vegging your plants for a bigger harvest, switching to hydro for more harvests, that takes time. I spend more than 40 hours a week reading books and internet alone! In a little time, once I then indeed know everything (lol), I will be able to back off and focus back on snowmobiling, ice fishing, and relaxing. lol. I am not a bum or a piece of shit. I was getting funding from the state to go to college instead of going back to work as a carpenter, seriously. I came out of federal prison and took home more going to college and collecting unemployment. I built houses for almost twenty years, from Detroit to Big Bay. The state lost jobs, educated people left state. No worker left behind was for educating michigan's work force. I am half way through college. The governor cut the funding, they cut the programs, and then they took my unemployment. If I had small children to take care of, wtf would I do. Many out there have the kids and eviction notices. I would rather have a guy try to make a living honestly than breaking into houses and shit. If I put a fresh eggs $2/doz sign in front of my house. Or I set up a stand with my fresh vegetables. A farmer takes food that we need to live, and they charge what people will pay, a farmer is a hard working, honest man.
The people that make me sick are the ones that sell pills, meth, herione. If a dude becomes a legal caregiver and grows legally I don't think any jury will lock him up.
I am certainly not arguing, but I do understand.
I'm really in your corner here, gladstoned. I don't want to come off like I'm judging anyone here, because that's not the case. I understand that work is hard to find, and this current batch of idiots in Lansing aren't making things any easier. It really sucks for a lot of people right now, and I feel for those who are out of work.

I'm throwing out the same advice/opinions here that I would offer up to my best friend if he were thinking of doing this. I just don't think it's a good move to rely on this to pay the bills for a number of reasons that I don't need to state again.
 

ismokealotofpot

New Member
you do realize there are tons of people that pay state and federal taxes on medical marijuana like 95% of all the dispensaries.. if you are ONLY a caregiver then you should definatly show income because if you dont thats when your going to get popped you just cant use any write offs on your FEDERAL taxes but you can on your state taxes.. all's you do when you do them is DON'T put the word marijuana anywhere on your taxes you just put your self employed and you do random jobs for people..there are even just strait up drug dealers that pay there taxes...basically if you don't pay your taxes thats going to raise a bigger red flag than you paying them as a self employed person i just would use small numbers not i made 60k doing random shit
Well if you own a collective you will get shut down or go to jail that's ware its heading your selling to other people that your not connected to through the registry. The IRS sends you a blank tax form every year and you give them all that information. many people have taken the irs to court and won the problem is most people are brainwashed into thinking they have to pay it. If you own a business then yes you have to pay.If you grow pot in your basement then no you don't. whats the difference it I grow herbs or tomatoes and sell them the farmers market? Its my time. My produce. Should I give the IRS money for my tomatoes and buy them from the store paying sales tax? I know all kinds of people that don't pay federal or state tax they get a normal paycheck from an employer but make 150 a week more than me because I payed the tax. this is from the federal mafia book. everyone should read it ill post a link The fact is no provision of the Internal Revenue Code requires anyone to file or payincome taxes. This tax, unlike other internal revenue taxes, is strictly (censored voluntary). This is because a compulsory income tax would violate the Constitution's three taxing clauses, the Bill of Rights and the 16th Amendment-all of which impose restrictions on the government's power and ability to tax income in ways few Americans understand. So, in order for the income tax not to be unconstitutional it had to be written on a non*compulsory basis. However, in order to deceive Americans of this, as well as provide federal courts and the IRS with deceptive passages on which to hang illegal prosecutions and illegal seizures, the Internal Revenue Code was written to make paying income taxes appearmandatory. The government succeeded in doing this by tricking the public into believing that those enforcement provisions of the Code, that apply to other, non-voluntary taxes (such as alcohol and tobacco taxes), also apply to income taxes when in fact, they do not.However, despite such trickery, the IRS still admits that our "income tax laws"' are purely VOLUNTARY!
 
I really tried to read all of this but you fucking people and you "Wall of text". Break that shit up NOBODY besides whoever its aimed at wants to read that...come on.

Wtf I didn't think MMJ patients would sound like a bunch of grubs tring to get SSI off there kid with a lazy eye.

(Dont do it for the money!)..huh? Really... If your growing 50+ plants thats ALOT of room and time. You have to have a job anyway why not make the job providing needed meds to people?

Hear me. I love pot I LOVE IT. I love to grow it more than smoking it. It's what im great at and could spen 80+ hours a day happy as a clam just trimming and carrying water. FUCKING LOVE IT.

I will collect enough info and grow weed legally and make a living from it that is my goal. Im patient. If anyone out there is a cargiver and making avg money please PM me, I can grow the finest MMJ i just need info on getting onto the market.
 

bowlfullofbliss

Well-Known Member
You're a stranger here and asking for "info on getting onto the market"? Sorry, but this is usually a red flag here for people thinking you're a cop. Not a good way to start.
 

gladstoned

Well-Known Member
Well the cops don't have any way of knowing what the law really says either. lol.
The way I am seeing this unroll in Michigan is that patients, caregivers, doctors, cops, prosecutors, and judges all got a brief explanation of the law and anything we don't agree on is up to a few people in the Michigan Supreme court and court of appeals and they listen to the argument and then a few years later the court of appeals actually looks at the law and decides. It's like Judge Mathis on TV, but it's really important and people need to think about it for years and then make a five minute decision.

Probably close to 10 years ago we were camping at Proud Lake Rec Area. My girlfriend was coming out of the bathroom and a few kids were playing with either a robin's nest or a baby robin. The baby bird was on the sidewalk, the kids were handling it and she knew the mother wouldn't care for it now, cuz it's been moved or some shit. Anyway she takes it to the office and the girl there calls one of the main people. They told her to put it back anywhere by the bathroom and let it die or they would ticket her cuz it is a robin and not a different bird (I am pretty sure a bald eagle has even more rules. lol). Moral of the story is this, some laws are fucking stupid and the people enforcing those laws don't really know how or why, to enforce them because they don't make sense to begin with.
 
Top