Put This In Your Pipe And Smoke It

Grace within a dispensation was one thing, a dispensation characterized solely by grace is something else altogether. Grace is the foundation on which Paul’s entire ministry was built, and grace covers all the bases for the believer’s life. There is a glory that belongs to God’s grace, and it is to be praised on the bases on what God’s grace has accomplished. 


Paul had been given special divine authority with the understanding that he is our apostle, and that authority carried with it the details of what God expects people to believe today, concerning the salvation Jesus Christ purchased for them with his sacrifice. 


Therefore, God in his infinite wisdom devised a plan whereby he could take the very faith belonging to his son, along with its resultant faithfulness, and credit that faith and faithfulness to the account of those who believe. It is Christ’s faith that is freely credited to the account of the one who believes the good news message given to the apostle Paul to proclaim to us in this age of grace. 


Paul wants us to know how a person is saved. He wants us to understand the basis by which God provides eternal security, not only has provided the gift of salvation; but provides eternal security to all those who place their faith in what the sacrifice of his son accomplished. It is our faith in the accomplishment of Jesus Christ’s faithful sacrifice that is the means whereby God acknowledges that we have accepted the gift his son purchased.

No stems and seeds with Paul, load up a bowl. When Paul refers to us as the called, he is referring not just to the fact that God is extending a call to us, an invitation or summons. Paul’s also referring to the fact that God’s calling us to participate in that to which we have been called, the Body of Christ. The Body of Christ is an expression denoting the point when God began to judicially join believers to his son, the Body of Christ is not about program, but about judicial identity. 


God forgave us, not because he had to, but because it was his desire too. God accomplished through Christ what we could never do on our own. God did not wait for us to do the first step. God had a choice, Jesus Christ had a choice, and they chose to do it. Christ believed that his sacrifice would settle the sin issue once and for all, and that God would raise him from among the dead. 


What an ingenious salvation plan, to take someone else that is righteous and join us to that person. Sin causes a debt to God so large that it can never be paid by ourselves, but the person who knows what Jesus Christ really accomplished, exist in a completely new relationship with God. Justification is a legal act, wherein God deems the sinner righteous on the basis of Christ’s righteousness. 


Justification is not a process, but is a one-time act, complete and definitive. God could only declare us to be right on the bases of who and what he is, not on the bases of who and what we would be apart from him. God had to devise a way to see us that way, and the way he devised to do that was by joining us to, hiding us in our perfectly righteous savior, thus freely crediting to our account Christ righteousness.

newnature said:

Therefore, God in his infinite wisdom devised a plan

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If God is so smart, could he devise a plan so intricate that even he could understand it?

OriginalRoast said:

If God is so smart, could he devise a plan so intricate that even he could understand it?

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Load up a bowl of Paul, religion has to many stems and seeds that you don't need. The realization that God’s love accomplished some fantastic things on our behalf. God is anxiously awaiting his own inheritance, which happens to be us, God considers believers to be his own inheritance, he purchased us with the blood of his son, we are God’s valuable inheritance. We find the amazing and comforting truth that God’s love for those who are joined to his son, is the same unalterable and unending love God has for his son. 


That is how closely connected we are to Christ, nothing will ever be able to diminish God’s loving attitude towards those who are joined to his son. We are called “saints” today, “set apart ones,” that is the word God uses for those who have placed their faith in the all-sufficiency of the sin-resolving sacrifice of his son, Jesus Christ. We are the saints of a brand new program, to be identified in Christ makes a person a saint, because we have the very righteousness of God himself freely attributed to our account. 


Grace is that which God does for the human race through his son, which the human race can not earn, does not deserve and will never merit. Grace is God’s work for people, and encompasses everything we receive from God, he is free to do now for ungodly people who take him at his word. We must understand that God has predetermined to glorify us. In fact, he has predestined us to that glorification, we are objects of God’s purpose, because God had a purpose in mind where grace age believers are concerned, and he predetermined through his own decree that his purpose would stand, it will come to pass no matter what. 


The inevitable result of God’s grace to the believer is true peace, because every believer is without blame before him in love. God sees us in Christ, and Christ was blameless. The only reason God could say through Paul, “Grace and Peace be unto you” is because God’s son fully paid the price. Justification by grace through faith, what a marvelous thing God has done, and who would have thought of a salvation in the sense that God’s plan would call for him to join a person to his son, therefore, what belongs to the son would now belong to believing people who have been joined to the son.

I'm not certain if you are trying to instill arguments, but your post is riddled with inconsistencies. So much so that I hardly know where to begin.

OriginalRoast said:

I'm not certain if you are trying to instill arguments, but your post is riddled with inconsistencies. So much so that I hardly know where to begin.

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What ministers of righteousness do you share your pipe with? I have had those stems and seeds in pipe before I learned about the good stuff, Paul.

Salvation, justification unto eternal life is a gift of God, it is not something we attain by our works in the first place. We have also been sanctified or set apart in that we were identified with Christ by God’s power from on high baptism into Christ at the point of our belief. 


It is entirely a work of God for the believer, not a work of the believer for God. No effort of the flesh could accomplish it, no effort of the saint can add to it. 


This in itself is the motivation for a believer to bring the body into subjection to what God had done freely for the ungodly as we place our faith in what Christ accomplished for our sins. Paul’s desire was about beating the flesh back, not about making the flesh better, it is about holding it down, bringing it into submission. 


One has to do with elevation, the other has to do with submission, Paul was talking about making the flesh subject to him. 


Everywhere Paul went, the people who had known the law did not just reject Paul, they wanted to do away with Paul for preaching that people were not under the law. What does that tell us about those in our day who continue to hang on to the notion that God is continuing to deal with people on the basis of their performance? 


We can see the connection between the religious crowd of Paul’s day and the religious crowd of today. The pride nature is the root cause of that rejection, pride insists upon attributing success to self. 


Human righteousness comes from self-interest-motivation, it is self-glorifying and while it may be of earthly benefit, that will not cut it when it comes to meeting the demands of God’s perfect justice. 


When ungodly people are willing to simply take God at his word, abandoning any notion that they can merit a righteous standing with God through their performance, and trust solely in what Jesus Christ accomplished for them, having resolved that issue of their sin debt, God’s power from on high performs a miracle in those people’s lives by uniting those believers with Christ himself. 


That is what sanctification, our set-apartness is all about. As we travel through Paul’s handbook on faith, we learn the necessity of a total abandonment of any notion that no one can merit righteousness before God through the performance of the flesh, and that we must place our trust solely in the fact that God accomplished our salvation for us through his son’s death when he judged his son for our sins. 


Paul was not talking about Christianizing the flesh, making it better flesh, capable of doing more things, he was talking about holding the flesh back, keeping it down. 


Paul was motivated to keep his desires of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life, to keep it at bay and not let that reign supreme when it came to his activities and his actions. 


Paul was being honest with himself and with us, when it came to the capacity of his flesh to merit righteousness before God through performance, if God was going to righteousify ungodly people, it would have to be freely by his grace, it could come no other way. 


People’s performance could not be allowed to enter the picture. God would have to use belief rather than behavior as the criterion whereby to join believers to his son. Could there have been a sin or two, or maybe a few left over when Christ died for the sin debt of the world, for which God’s justice was not satisfied, a sin in the future? 


God’s justice was satisfied where the sins of the world are concerned, God reconciled the world unto himself, as Paul tells us. 


God was satisfying his own justice where the sins of the world are concerned through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, but God recognizes those who take him at his word concerning the price Christ became on their behalf to resolve God’s justice for their sins. 


Taking God at his word is called faith, God’s intent was to join believers to his son, from God’s perspective the two become one flesh. Justification is a recognition of righteousness that comes from God to those who believe God and the moment we believe, God’s power from on high joins us to Christ and from that point on we have a brand new identification. 


Does God’s call go out selectively or does he call all today, and does his call come by way of circumstance or does he call today to believe the message given through the apostle Paul. 


Jesus Christ was made a curse for our sins by taking our place and suffering the judgment of God for the sin debts he died for, was his death not pictured in the scapegoat sacrifice of the Israelite program? 


If a person believes Christ died for their sin debt, but does not believe that God’s justice was satisfied when Christ died for those sins, that person has not believed Christ died for their sin debt according to the scriptures. 


To continue to insist that God’s justice has not been resolved where all the sins Christ died for are concerned, is to deny the truth sitting in 2 Corinthians 5:18-21.

newnature said:

What ministers of righteousness do you share your pipe with?

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I guess I'll start with your personal competence. "Ministers" is a noun while "what" is a pronoun. Pronouns are used to take the place of a noun, e.g., "She said hello". "She" takes the place of the persons name. So if you use a pronoun then a noun it makes your sentence sound like you have very little understanding of the English language. I assumed that since you are writing such lengthy posts that your writing comprehension was relatively high; mistakes can definitely be found throughout all of your posts, but stuff happens. However, since the quality of this single line post is so low, I will have to maintain that you are copying the bulk of your material from somewhere else and have little creative imagination and few original thoughts of your own.

OriginalRoast said:

I guess I'll start with your personal competence. "Ministers" is a noun while "what" is a pronoun. Pronouns are used to take the place of a noun, e.g., "She said hello". "She" takes the place of the persons name. So if you use a pronoun then a noun it makes your sentence sound like you have very little understanding of the English language. I assumed that since you are writing such lengthy posts that your writing comprehension was relatively high; mistakes can definitely be found throughout all of your posts, but stuff happens. However, since the quality of this single line post is so low, I will have to maintain that you are copying the bulk of your material from somewhere else and have little creative imagination and few original thoughts of your own.

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Simple question, no matter how I said it. Got stoned and missed it, when it comes to English in school.

I don't believe that it is a simple question since most religions, such as christianity, prohibit the use of marijuana. If you are smoking with your minister, then I think that there is some fundamental issue with not only the church you attend, but with your views of the world and life in general. Also, the fact that you chose to do illicit drugs instead of going to school really says something about your character.

It's interesting that you provide no rebuttal of my claim that you copy your material and have no original thoughts (rebuttal means to argue against something). If my claims are not contested then I guess they stand. (contested means to challenge something)

OriginalRoast said:

I don't believe that it is a simple question since most religions, such as christianity, prohibit the use of marijuana. If you are smoking with your minister, then I think that there is some fundamental issue with not only the church you attend, but with your views of the world and life in general. Also, the fact that you chose to do illicit drugs instead of going to school really says something about your character.

It's interesting that you provide no rebuttal of my claim that you copy your material and have no original thoughts (rebuttal means to argue against something). If my claims are not contested then I guess they stand. (contested means to challenge something)

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Curt Crist let's me use his reasoning's. Just having fun with the pot talk. Don't do the church thing. What would you like to challenge?

Forget I said anything. If you collaborate with Curt Crist, does that mean you are from NC?

OriginalRoast said:

Forget I said anything. If you collaborate with Curt Crist, does that mean you are from NC?

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No, I live in Oregon. I don't collaborate with Curt, he just let's me use his reasoning's. I got to talk to Curt on the phone, he is a cool dude.

That is a lot of assertion with zero evidence.

Let's begin at square one.

Can you provide evidence of your god? Can you prove him?

I can tell you all day long about the loving embrace of the Sky Lord from the Spaghetti Planet in the Fifth Dimension but I assume you'd dismiss anything I have to say as false considering you have no reason to believe in the Sky Lord of the Spaghetti Planet.

The Hebrew God is just as real as Zeus and Bigfoot and you have no evidence to the contrary so it's safe to dismiss as fiction.

Cyrus420 said:

Let's begin at square one.

Can you provide evidence of your god? Can you prove him?

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Square one would be when someone's explicates their position. That was already done, so it's obvious that you don't know what your talking about. Also, providing evidence for anything is difficult. For example, try to prove that you yourself exists. Where is the evidence that you are real?

OriginalRoast said:

Square one would be when someone's explicates their position. That was already done, so it's obvious that you don't know what your talking about. Also, providing evidence for anything is difficult. For example, try to prove that you yourself exists. Where is the evidence that you are real?

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Explicate: "analyze and develop (an idea or principle) in detail."

Well that is OP's step one for sure. Square one was just used as a saying here, are you telling me there are rules to the order in which ideas are presented and questioned? If so what are they? Please private message me these so I can use them in the future...now onto the point.

OP has a lot of ideas present and developed but where are his proof for the idea?

As for proof of myself, you could visit me in real life and feel me, hear me, see me, smell me, taste me if you want, amongst other things. I can transfer electric shock to your body by touching a vandagraph while holding your hand. Surely that electric shock would prove to you I'm holding your hand at that point in time?

The same cannot be said for OP's god.

Ideas exist as ideas. The fact that his are expressed here should be proof enough for their existence. As for the views of God, there are plenty of arguments that you can find that explicate His existence. I would recommend reading Spinoza or Leibniz or even Descartes.

Cyrus420 said:

That is a lot of assertion with zero evidence.

Let's begin at square one.

Can you provide evidence of your god? Can you prove him?

I can tell you all day long about the loving embrace of the Sky Lord from the Spaghetti Planet in the Fifth Dimension but I assume you'd dismiss anything I have to say as false considering you have no reason to believe in the Sky Lord of the Spaghetti Planet.

The Hebrew God is just as real as Zeus and Bigfoot and you have no evidence to the contrary so it's safe to dismiss as fiction.

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Now at one point in time in God’s life, he chose to create some kind of structure that separated him from the empty place outside of that structure. But God was not alone, because God rode around on a kind of throne chariot. God’s enthroned above four magnificent creatures. Each of these has a human body and then four faces: the face of a human, the face of a lion, the face of an ox, and the face of an eagle. These 4 magnificent creatures have the same kind of eternal life that God has within himself, but what these magnificent creatures bodies are made of, is unclear.

Not only were these 4 magnificent creatures with God, but there were 24 other individuals with God. These 24 individuals are named Elders and they also have the same kind of eternal life that God has within himself, but these Elders have that eternal life in some kind of flesh and bone body. Now God’s body is different then these 24 Elders and these 4 magnificent creatures. God is a spirit being, meaning his body is composed of a substance called spirit. God also has a unique kind of life within that body composed of that substance called spirit, but the eternal life God has within himself produces some kind of light (His glory). 


We know that God did indeed create some kind of structure around him, because he went to the north side of that structure and laid the north side of it over the empty place that is outside of that structure. It is in the north of the north of that new addition to that structure, that God established a different throne to sit on, because his throne (the Ark) is in the tent that God pitched in the north of the north also. Now the reason God created this structure, it was for the beings he was about to create within it.

Isaiah 14:13 - The north, this helps us to localize the dwelling place of God.

Psalms 75:6 - It comes not from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south, therefore promotion comes from the north. The immediate place of God’s throne, to which Lucifer aspires. 


Job 26:7 - In order to stretch out the north over the empty place, there has to be a structure in place separating whatever is inside it from the empty place outside of it.

John 4:24 God is a spirit, not flesh or material substance.


John 5:26 God has eternal life in himself.

OriginalRoast said:

Square one would be when someone's explicates their position. That was already done, so it's obvious that you don't know what your talking about. Also, providing evidence for anything is difficult. For example, try to prove that you yourself exists. Where is the evidence that you are real?

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A figure of speech relates to the form in which the words are used. It consists in the fact that a word or words are used out of their ordinary sense, or place, or manner, for the purpose of attracting our attention to what is said. In Genesis chapter three, we have neither allegory, myth, legend, nor fable, but literal historical facts set forth, and emphasized by the use of certain figures of speech. When Satan is spoken of as a ‘serpent’, it is the figure Hypocatastasis or Implication. An implied resemblance or representation.

Other figures of speech are used in Genesis 3:14-15, but only for the same purpose of emphasizing the truth and the reality of what is said. “Thou shalt bruise his heel”, it cannot mean his literal heel of flesh and blood, but suffering, more temporary in character. 


“He shall crush thy head”, it means something more than a skull of bone, and brain, and hair. It means that all Satan’s plans and plots, policy and purposes, will one day be finally crushed and ended, never more to mar or to hinder the purposes of God. 


This will be effected when Satan shall be bruised under our feet (Romans 16:20). This, again, will not be our literal feet, but something much more real. The bruising of Christ’s heel is the most eloquent and impressive way of foretelling the most solemn events; and to point out that the effort made by Satan to evade his doom, then threatened, would become the very means of insuring its accomplishment; for it was through the death of Christ that he who had the power of death would be destroyed; and all Satan’ power and policy brought to an end, and all his works destroyed.

The history of Genesis chapter three is intended to teach us the fact that Satan’s sphere of activities is in the religious sphere, and not the spheres of crime or immorality; that his battlefield is not the sins arising from human depravity, but the unbelief of the human heart. We are not to look for Satan’s activities today in the newspaper press, or the police courts; but in the pulpit, and in professors’ chairs. Whenever the Word of God is called in question, there we see the trail of that old serpent?

Genesis 3:14-15 - What literal words could portray these literal facts so wonderfully as these expressive figures of speech? It is the same with the other figures used in versus 14, “On thy belly shalt thou go”. This figure means infinitely more than the literal belly of flesh and blood. It paints for the eyes of our mind the picture of Satan’s ultimate humiliation; for prostration was ever the most eloquent sign of subjection. Ps. 44:25 denotes such a prolonged prostration and such a depth of submission as could never be conveyed or expressed in literal words.

Cyrus420 said:

Explicate: "analyze and develop (an idea or principle) in detail."

Well that is OP's step one for sure. Square one was just used as a saying here, are you telling me there are rules to the order in which ideas are presented and questioned? If so what are they? Please private message me these so I can use them in the future...now onto the point.

OP has a lot of ideas present and developed but where are his proof for the idea?

As for proof of myself, you could visit me in real life and feel me, hear me, see me, smell me, taste me if you want, amongst other things. I can transfer electric shock to your body by touching a vandagraph while holding your hand. Surely that electric shock would prove to you I'm holding your hand at that point in time?

The same cannot be said for OP's god.

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Genesis 1:1 shouldn’t have happened. The bible assumes that Lucifer exits and never questions that assumption. The earth flooded out proves Lucifer is not an unfounded assumption. The beginning of the universe is in Genesis 1:1. Darkness was upon the earth, because it appears the earth is now in some kind of black structure now. Lucifer and those who helped him out are swimming around on the earth. Now the earth, the opposite of the created order is ‘nothing,’ (water). But to the ancients, the opposite of the created order was something much worse than ‘nothing’ (chaos).

The beginning of Genesis, “And” is the figure of speech Polysyndeton or Many Ands. The repetition of the word “and” at the beginning of successive clauses, each independent, important, and emphatic, with no climax at the end. 34 verses of this introduction, each one of 102 separate acts is emphasized; and the important word “God” in versus 1 is carried like a lamp through the whole of this Introduction. 


“The earth” is the figure of speech Anadiplosis or Like sentence endings and beginnings. The word or words concluding one sentence are repeated at the beginning of another. 


“Without form” the Hebrew word is ‘tohu va bohu’ and is the figure of speech Paronomasia or Rhyming words. The repetition of words similar in sound, but not necessarily in sense. Without form, one of the Hebrew words is ‘tohu’ and is used as a subsequent event. Not created ‘tohu’ (Isa. 45:1, but became ‘tohu’ (2 Pet. 3:5-6). The other word is ‘bohu’ and is rendered “void”, means desolate. The two words together occur in Gen. 1:2a; Isa. 34:11; Jer. 4:23. 


“Face” in Genesis 1:2a is the figure Pleonasm or Redundancy. Where what is said is, immediately after, put in another or opposite way to make it impossible for the sense to be missed.

In Genesis 1:2a, the two verbs ‘was’ should be the verb ‘to become’. The Revisers ill-advisedly decided that “all such words, now printed in italics, as are plainly implied in the Hebrew, and necessary in English, be printed in common type. One of the consequences of this decision is that the verb “to be” is not distinguished from the verb “to become”, so that the lessons conveyed are lost.