Prop 19 Is BAD For Small Business.

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BluffinCali

Well-Known Member
Its just too bad that the first oppurtunity for so called "legalization" has to be wrapped up in a shitty piece of legislation, I mean this bill will allow different cities/counties to impose outrageous taxes on these gifts of "sq ft" that I couldnt fit one outdoor plant in. Whos to say that after a year or two every city in California wont be charging X amount of dollars to grow some plants, why should anyone have to pay a fee on square footage for growing on their own land or property. Everything at this point is speculation as to what will really happen, but this bill is designed purely to tax and regulate MJ, which isnt bad if it set-up some sort of standard taxing, not leaving it up to all these individual jurisdictions to decide how greedy they will be. In the end this bill will end up hurting alot of people, while making others a ton of money and its not going to be the average grower that prospers thats for sure, but hey maybe its a step in the right direction, but no one actually knows what the effects will end being. Vote how you want, I honestly havent decided and hopefully it doesnt effect prop 215, but even that is up for debate.
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
What does this even mean? Im just a guy who enjoys pot and wants to see it un-demonized and prices drop. You should consider going to some sort of psychiatrist.
You threaten our well being. Claiming no responsibility for the consequences of your support is no excuse.

My wife has recovered from cancer three times.

She has been cancer free for twenty years, since she started using Cannabis at saturation levels(about ten pounds, annually. Steve Kubby uses about 15 pounds).

Reduce her supply and you are killing her.

If a doctor were to refuse your seriously ill spouse treatment because it would interfere with his golf game, how would you react?

For us, it's life and death. For you, convenience.
 

vertise

Well-Known Member
I posted on another prop 19 thread a article about famous marijuana lawyer in california, and his breakdown of prop 19. The wording he says does not infact affect 215. Those who medically have a doctor recommendation to grow larger operations can do so without a problem under prop 19. Common misconception about prop 19 is taking its wording to literal, which laws are not. He points out that one must understand the law and how certain words are interpreted. Rather then taking the literal meaning. Basically it will not cause prop 215 patients any problems. If that makes some sort of sense.
 

SB Garlic

Active Member
Hey Veggie, imagine if you were unable to grow meds for your wife because you werent capable of doing it for reasons other than legality or grow restrictions. A lot of people that need 10lbs annually are unable to afford that at current pricing. MJ becoming legal will allow for more reliable meds at lower prices than current market. MJ legalized will save lives.
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
Hey Veggie, imagine if you were unable to grow meds for your wife because you werent capable of doing it for reasons other than legality or grow restrictions. A lot of people that need 10lbs annually are unable to afford that at current pricing. MJ becoming legal will allow for more reliable meds at lower prices than current market. MJ legalized will save lives.
Pot, available for sale, won't be cheaper, unless it is black market. I don't ever want to be forced to break the law for pot, again.

All protestations aside, prop 19 is so poorly written that its supporters must explain that the bill doesn't mean what it says it means?

No on 19, and write something better.
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
Hey Veggie, imagine if you were unable to grow meds for your wife because you werent capable of doing it for reasons other than legality or grow restrictions. A lot of people that need 10lbs annually are unable to afford that at current pricing. MJ becoming legal will allow for more reliable meds at lower prices than current market. MJ legalized will save lives.
The real point is that I believed in Cannabis and chose to risk everything to provide for wife. It works.

We've been through the shit to reach this relatively stable situation.

I'm too old to fight those battles again.
 

Prop19fan

Member
wow, look at the selfishness and the greed.people who run small businesses asking stoners on rollitup.org to vote "NO" on legalization. I had to quit smoking years ago for my jobs, one being a fed job. Being sober and bord as fuck is just not for me. I am not and never want to be straight edge. When I smoke I love life more. I had a fucked up childhood (boo hoo for me who gives a damn) I have trouble having feelings and am a very cold hearted individual. I can feel love for my kids. I feel passion for my wife. I love exercising. Sounds stupid right, but I did lose 85 pounds when I was smoking. If you are here to tell good people that you should remain in power just because you put all of your eggs in running a dispensory you should be ashamed of your self. You're just as bad as the multi-billion dollar companies you berate so much.

THIS IS THE FIRST STEP TO DECRIMINALIZATION. I do not know of a society that has gone from treating something with a prison sentence (such as a class 1 drug which pot is still classified) to it being completely decriminalized with no steps in between.
Use your brain, every destination or journey has steps, and if dispensaries have to go the way of the whip and buggie then good riddance. Just know, you will never be forgotten as a step to legalization and eventually as a step to decriminalization. You have done well, you have served the public well, here comes the automobile, now please step aside.

God bless you all.

VOTE YES ON PROP 19!

P.s. My first post and it's my birthday!
 

SB Garlic

Active Member
The real point is that I believed in Cannabis and chose to risk everything to provide for wife. It works.

We've been through the shit to reach this relatively stable situation.

I'm too old to fight those battles again.
So what do you recommend to other patients who need 10lb a year but cant grow their own?
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Reduce her supply and you are killing her.

If a doctor were to refuse your seriously ill spouse treatment because it would interfere with his golf game, how would you react?
No one is reducing your supply. The California supreme court has already ruled that it's unconstitutional to set a limit that goes against a doctors recommendation.

But that doesn't matter to you. The facts, supreme court rulings, contents on the actually law, truth, etc.. none of that matters to you. For some reason you could care less about the reality of the situation. You won't let anything get in the way of your paranoid crackpot theories about prop 19.

Even the original prop 215 lawyer himself gave an analysis of prop 19 stating in no uncertain terms that prop 19 doesn't effect medical limits. But that's doesn't matter to you either. You'd rather believe some random crackpot blogger because it fits into your paranoia better.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
All protestations aside, prop 19 is so poorly written that its supporters must explain that the bill doesn't mean what it says it means?
Exactly what they said about prop 215.

No on 19, and write something better.
It cost ~ 2 million dollars to get prop 19 put on the ballot. Who's going to pay for this non-existent ballot measure to get put on the ballot?

Hey, if you want to right a ballot measure that has no limitations and bans massive scale growing and you're willing to pay the 2 million dollars, I'd vote for it over prop 19. unfortunately it's been 70 years and that hasn't passed in any state. Maybe if I wait another 70 years we'll get a better ballot measure!
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
wow, look at the selfishness and the greed.people who run small businesses asking stoners on rollitup.org to vote "NO" on legalization. I had to quit smoking years ago for my jobs, one being a fed job. Being sober and bord as fuck is just not for me. I am not and never want to be straight edge. When I smoke I love life more. I had a fucked up childhood (boo hoo for me who gives a damn) I have trouble having feelings and am a very cold hearted individual. I can feel love for my kids. I feel passion for my wife. I love exercising. Sounds stupid right, but I did lose 85 pounds when I was smoking. If you are here to tell good people that you should remain in power just because you put all of your eggs in running a dispensory you should be ashamed of your self. You're just as bad as the multi-billion dollar companies you berate so much.

THIS IS THE FIRST STEP TO DECRIMINALIZATION. I do not know of a society that has gone from treating something with a prison sentence (such as a class 1 drug which pot is still classified) to it being completely decriminalized with no steps in between.
Use your brain, every destination or journey has steps, and if dispensaries have to go the way of the whip and buggie then good riddance. Just know, you will never be forgotten as a step to legalization and eventually as a step to decriminalization. You have done well, you have served the public well, here comes the automobile, now please step aside.

God bless you all.

VOTE YES ON PROP 19!

P.s. My first post and it's my birthday!
You have two posts on this site. don't have the courage of your convictions?

What are you, 21?
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
Exactly what they said about prop 215.



It cost ~ 2 million dollars to get prop 19 put on the ballot. Who's going to pay for this non-existent ballot measure to get put on the ballot?

Hey, if you want to right a ballot measure that has no limitations and bans massive scale growing and you're willing to pay the 2 million dollars, I'd vote for it over prop 19. unfortunately it's been 70 years and that hasn't passed in any state. Maybe if I wait another 70 years we'll get a better ballot measure!
And they were right. It took most of 14 years to stop persecuting patients.

Two million to get a crappy Proposition on the ballot?

What a waste.

That would have been better spent helping others like my wife.

I'm sure you'll be donating ten pounds to each person who needs it, when you start your commercial grow?
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
If Prop 19 were what it claims to be, I think the Examiner would support it...

From: ELLEN KOMP
Date: September 15, 2010
Subject: SF Chronicle: Prop 19: Vote no


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/09/15/ED3R1FE16O.DTL


San Francisco Chronicle


Proposition 19: Vote no
Wednesday, September 15, 2010


Even Californians who support the legalization of marijuana should be
extremely wary of Proposition 19. This is a seriously flawed initiative
with contradictions and complications that would invite legal chaos and,
more than likely, fail to deliver its promised economic benefits.


We agree with the architects of Prop. 19 that the "war on drugs" -
especially as it applies to marijuana - has been an abject failure. Laws
against personal possession are widely ignored, they are enforced unevenly
and they divert law enforcement and the courts from more pressing
priorities. The result is a flourishing underground economy that allows
marijuana to escape taxation and regulation while bestowing profits on
criminal enterprises.


If this were simply a referendum on the status quo, and the ability of a
21-or-older Californian to possess an ounce or less for personal use, it
might be an easy "yes" vote. It is not. It is a law that goes too far in
endowing rights for the cultivation, possession and use of marijuana.


Among the specific problems:


Workplace: A nondiscrimination clause would prevent employers from firing
or disciplining workers who used marijuana unless an employer could prove
that job performance was impaired. Pre-employment testing would be banned.
Conflicts with federal law abound. For example, the feds require operators
of planes, trains, trucks and buses to be removed from their jobs if they
test positive for any narcotic.


Tax and regulation: The measure establishes no state controls over
distribution and product standards; it does nothing to help cure the
state's budget deficit. A seriously gridlocked Legislature, which kept its
distance from the medical marijuana mess, would have to decide whether to
take on such issues. In the meantime, Prop. 19 allows the 58 counties and
hundreds of cities to come up with their own taxation and regulatory
schemes. In this critical element of legalization, Prop. 19 is more akin
to the chaotic approach taken with medical marijuana than to the heavily
taxed-and-regulated treatment of alcohol.


Cultivation: Property owners throughout the state would have a right to
establish a 5-by-5-foot plot of cannabis plants for personal consumption -
a right that could not be usurped by local ordinance. Anyone familiar with
the stench and potential height of marijuana plants might pause at the
thought of their proliferation in the neighborhood.


Transit: The proposition does not affect current laws against driving
while impaired by cannabis, but it does allow passengers to smoke in a
moving vehicle, proponents acknowledge. This is another element of 219
[sic] that that defies common sense.


The experience of Proposition 215, the 1996 initiative that legalized the
use of medical marijuana, illustrates the danger of voting for a concept
instead of the language of a ballot measure. The loosely drawn Prop. 215
continues to be a nightmare for many communities. Los Angeles is trying to
shut down hundreds of dispensaries. Even the laid-back coastal towns of
Santa Cruz and Arcata found themselves putting moratoriums on new
dispensaries.


Fresno County Supervisors this week voted to ban outdoor medical marijuana
gardens after four reports of gunfire - including a fatal shooting by a
homeowner who claimed an intruder was out to steal his pot.


If Prop. 19 were to pass, such outdoor gardens would not be limited to
ostensible medical-marijuana patients. They could show up in any backyard,
in any town - and local governments would be powerless to stop them.


Don't vote the slogan or the concept. Inspect the details. No on 19
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
Sorry veggie ...

Your "I gots mine" attitude towards legalization doesn't fly with me.

The SAME people you're telling can't have marijuana for recreational use are the SAME people who fought for you and/or your wife to be able to use medical marijuana "legally".

Shame on you for turning your back on the people who made your current situation possible in the first place.



And lol @ "bad for small business". You can't name a SINGLE fact that this would happen. And even if it did ... I'll take FREEDOM over PROFIT any day.
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
Sorry veggie ...

Your "I gots mine" attitude towards legalization doesn't fly with me.

The SAME people you're telling can't have marijuana for recreational use are the SAME people who fought for you and/or your wife to be able to use medical marijuana "legally".

Shame on you for turning your back on the people who made your current situation possible in the first place.



And lol @ "bad for small business". You can't name a SINGLE fact that this would happen. And even if it did ... I'll take FREEDOM over PROFIT any day.
If you refuse to take me at my word regarding my motives and situation, you are irrelevant.

You choose not to inform yourself of the issues, so vote for your taxes.

I'll go back underground, if necessary.
 

tc1

Well-Known Member
What a great retort ...

"You don't agree with me so you're irrelevant"


How relevant will you feel if and when Prop 19 passes?
 

Sure Shot

Well-Known Member
It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry who are fighting against efforts to make it legal for all adults. Marijuana users are an extremely diverse group. Whether it be medical or recreational use, they can be found in almost every demographic imaginable in America. As such, there are a wide variety of opinions on how marijuana should be treated by society at large, as well as how to achieve such goals. This shouldn’t be surprising, and there is always room for debate on what the best models and methods for reform should be. Recently, however, a disturbing trend has emerged.
It appears that there is a growing contingent of marijuana users and people associated with the industry, both legal and illicit, who are actively fighting against efforts to make marijuana legal for all adults. There are several arguments being thrown around to defend the status quo of marijuana prohibition. Some of those arguments are well intentioned but shortsighted. Some are downright malicious. The one commonality they have is their divisive effect on the movement at a time when unity is crucial to finally end the government’s war on marijuana users.
A common complaint is that, in a regulated marijuana market, big corporations will push out small businesses. This is an understandable fear, especially to someone who has spent his or her life, and risked imprisonment and persecution, trying to run a marijuana-related business. These people surely do not want to see a culture and industry that they love taken over by corporate interests and diluted. But corporations already control marijuana.
They are the cartels that heavily influence the market and bring death to our borders and our inner cities. They are the prison-builders that lobby for harsher sentencing so they can keep the cells full and the cash flowing. They are the pharmaceutical companies that stonewall cannabinoid research so they can keep pushing expensive pills.
Of course some big businesses are going to see opportunity in a newly legal and regulated marijuana market and will try to take advantage of it. And surely some of their practices will be detestable. Marijuana consumers have a right to choose, though. Big businesses cannot “ruin marijuana” any more than Coors has ruined beer. As with alcohol, with its thriving microbrew industry, there will inevitably be a large market for higher-quality, locally grown marijuana.
Another popular attack against potential reforms is that they do not go far enough. There are many people who feel very strongly about securing certain protections, whether they be the right to grow at home, amnesty for marijuana prisoners, personal possession limits, and so on. The most vocal among them feel so strongly that they would rather see a decent bill fail than pass without their inclusion.
While we can sit around dreaming about what the country would be like with “perfect” marijuana laws, the political reality is that we cannot get anywhere near there without taking incremental steps. We are fighting against more than seventy years of lies and propaganda, as well as entrenched corporate and government interests. By building on small victories, we can more easily pass improved laws and overturn bad portions of otherwise good laws. We cannot build on zero victories. While we sit around arguing about minor concessions and principles, people are going to jail or dying. We cannot afford to wait for the rest of the country to come around to the way of thinking of the more radical among us, even if we might agree with them.
The worst obstructionist arguments come from people who are doing just fine under prohibition. They come from the growers and dealers, who stand to lose a little bit of the tremendous amount of money they make in the illegal market. They come from the guys that think marijuana is only “cool” if it is unregulated, and don’t want to lose their status. They come from the young adults who simply do not care if it is legal or not, because they are going to do it anyway.
Never mind that their lifestyles come at the expense of others’ freedom! In all seriousness, if you want to be a cool, wealthy outlaw, here is some advice: develop a personality, and buy a motorcycle. The rest of us are sick of living our lives on the lam for you. If you cannot support marijuana reform because of such selfish reasoning, please remove yourself from the debate.
The time has never been better for making real progress in marijuana reform. As we propose new changes and laws, everyone should get a chance to voice their opinions or concerns. When we have a chance to pass improved marijuana laws, however, we need to present a united front. As long as someone can be arrested for marijuana in the United States, we need to support each other — even if we, as individuals, do not get exactly what we want. For registered voters in California, this means coming out to the polls on November 2 to vote yes on Proposition 19.
Source: AlterNet (US Web)
 
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